SAS, I was going to come up with something to counter your stats, but then I figured I'd just be wasting my time... Stats are great for Fantasy Football, figuring out who should get into the HOF, who should win POY and MVP, but they don't tell the whole story and can be used to fit ANY argument that you want them to (as you ver well know, since that is kind of you "M.O." So, I'm done with this argument, this thread was started to get the OPINIONS of those on this board, and you just can't seem to stand anyone having a differing OPINION than you... and an OPINION is just that, an OPINION!! Mines not any more right and or wrong than yours, although I know you like to always be right, you just can't possibly be in this case!!! All that being said, me personally would consider this draft a bust if they don't come out with Milliner or trade down and get Rhodes, if they take a WR in round one, that will tick me off, plain and simple!!! Patterson is just the best WR in a sub-par WR class, Milliner on the other hand is the best CB in a very deep class.... you wanna take a *playmaker* at #6... Milliner, all day, every day, and hopefully, the Browns do on April 25TH!
Probably. You know what's a good counter to stats? Spoiler Nothing. Seriously, have any opinion you want. I don't care. I said WR. You said CB. We debated then you took your ball and went home. No biggie.
DvlyDawg, I don't think you understand that I don't give a crap what you think. To be blunt, I don't remember a lot of conversations back and forth between us. The few I do recall began the same way -- you disagreed with me and said something blatantly false. When I called you on it, you shut down and tried to somehow marginalize me. Thank you. I take a lot of pride in being well-informed. This likely is the root cause of a lot of the problems. Your opinion simply doesn't jive with mine, which is usually formed based on stats or facts. You can think Cordarrelle Patterson drops a lot of balls. Fact is, he doesn't. You are wrong. I am right. I take no pride in this. I treat it as an opportunity to provide a little insight for you. Maybe that's my failing, expecting you to change. I sort of expect a mea culpa from you "Oh wow... I read somewhere that he drops a lot of passes, but evidently that was misinformation as he's a more reliable receiver than many big-time names in the game today. I was unaware of that fact." At that point you're still free to disagree with my opinion. You just have to find a different sticking point. Rather than continue in an intellectual way, you debase and demean. Which, again, is fine. It's your right and I can't begin to care what you think of me. Again, I don't remember many altercations with you personally. I don't insult anyone until I feel insulted and if recent history is any judge, clearly you jumped out to an early lead on the slights. More belittling. Fantastic!
Oh, that fact is not lost on anyone. I have never tried to marginalize anyone. If I have, then I apologize. As far as shutting down, I am guilty as charged there. I would as soon not argue with you. We have had very few exchanges, I avoid you. I reference your over all lack of civility and regard for the posters on this board. Sam, this is only true if I agree with you. Any disagreement with you ends the same way. Nope, just sick of you from reading posts over the years. No, Sam, not a slight, I am not trying to belittle you. I am telling you that you are a tactless and rude person that is prone to childish outbursts, and I do not like it. I understand that you do not care, I did not expect you to. All this is based on your interaction with the other members of this board and the CBS board. You might be a very pleasant person in person.
This is a quote taken from this site: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dr...elle-patterson-2013-nfl-draft-scouting-report "Cons: For as dynamic a player as he is, Patterson needs to become more physical in fighting through press coverage. Despite his size, he is not a particularly strong player, thus he gets jammed easily at the line of scrimmage. He also loses focus too frequently, causing dropped passes, fumbles or careless plays. Likewise, his blocking efforts left quite a bit to be desired during his season at Tennessee. In addition to his lack of focus, Patterson also doesn't have the best technique when catching passes. He often lets the ball come into his body and tries to turn up field before reeling the ball in. That caused too many passes to hit the turf this season." Here's one from NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/cordarrelle-patterson?id=2540145 "Weaknesses Consistently a body catcher, even when it is not necessary. Was not frequently asked to go up and get the football at its highest point. Large number of his snaps start while off the line of scrimmage, allows for a better release. Doesn't use his hands enough against a jam, tries to dip or side step rather than slap or push. Tends to throttle down in his breaks.Burst after the catch or return is only adequate but does accelerate quickly. Tries to do too much when the ball is in his hands at times. Dropped a few very catchable balls, including easy bucket throw over shoulder. Inconsistent blocking effort." And another http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/cordarrellepatterson.html Under the "OVERVEIW" section: "he doesn't catch the ball as well as you would like" That's just a quick google search of "Cordarelle Patterson Scouting Report".... Hmmm, seems like DvlDawg isn't the only one who sees this.... all these expert must not have seen the same stats that you have.... where did you get those from anyways?
Out of respect for the original intent of this thread, I'll collapse my replies to you <DvlDawg> in the Spoiler section. I do not want to derail the original intention of the poster with having to correct you. Spoiler If that were true, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Inaccurate. This is true if I am right and you are wrong. We can disagree on things like which position to address in the draft, but we cannot disagree on something like the reliability of Patterson's hands. You were dead wrong in this regard, failed to acknowledge it and then went on a personal crusade against someone you clearly harbor and odd resentment towards. Thanks for your criticism. In that case, I would return the favor and consider you an uninformed and spiteful person that is prone to harboring contempt for others. I personally cannot assign an emotion to it, as you do, though because (1) it's the internet and (2) I don't give a hoot. Hey, you get as good as you give. Now... about that wide receiver we're drafting...
I'm ok SAS. I have said my piece and am content to walk away. As for the intent of the thread, I agree with you. We need to get back on topic. I may be wrong on the Ziggy pick, but I will split the difference and say that if we draft at the 6 position it will be a defensive player to further facilitate the transition to the Horton 3-4 D. Whether that is a DB or an OLB is anyones guess. This is said to be a deep defensive draft, but I do not think it is deep enough to wait till Rd3 to address a D that is lacking several starters still. I think that the stenosis thing may have been put to bed, maybe Jones would be a better pick, we'll see. My bet on draft day is D.
No wr at 6!! That would be one of the worst decisions ever. We have to go D there hopefully Milinar or trade down a few spots or grab one of the Dlineman.
That is the most likely conclusion. Depending on where the news comes from, there is some chatter about Geno Smith 'slipping' to #6 and the Browns likely pulling the trigger if he's there. Regardless, my money is still on rush linebacker. I don't agree but I think it's the most logical fit/choice.
Is that because of the players available, or the position itself? I happen to think adding a playmaker with a ton of upside would be a great choice. Our crummy QB could use the help with his development and we don't have a legitimate pass-catching playmaker (outside of maybe Josh Gordon) who can threaten a defense. Greg Little, Travis Benjamin and even newly-acquired David Nelson are all average role players. Interesting mentioning a defensive lineman... haven't heard much chatter about anyone there. Anyone specific in mind?
Hey, normally I'd be right there with you. I'm a firm believer that a good QB makes a good wide receiver. That said, it's apparent we're stuck with Weeden for one more season and he clearly needs all the help he can get. Hypothetical, JYD: Milliner, Jordan, Ansah all off the board. Browns have the option to move down. Do you then consider trading down and taking a wide receiver? Or no?
Not really, (IF I was forced to go offense) I'd rather take one of the top TE's (Eifert)... and good pass catching TE can be a QB's best friend, and although I think Cameron has some potential.... I don't think he can be that "QB's best friend" type TE... I really don't think they need to take a WR anywhere in the first round (or even second or third IMHO) Fourth and lower go for it... I still stand with going after Secondary early and often in this draft!!! If that does happen and Milliner, Jordan, and Ansah are all gone (even if Jordan and Ansah are there and Milliner is gone)... My personal pick would be to trade down (not too far) and get Rhodes
Gotta say... I wish I had your optimism in our offense. Especially the pass-catchers. Another trade down hypothetical then... if we do move down, you'd take the #2 cornerback (Rhodes) as opposed to the #1 safety (Vaccaro)? Frankly... I like the idea of trading down (picking an R2 back up) and taking Rhodes to drafting Milliner at #6. I just don't see him as a playmaker and if we're just looking to get a good starter at cornerback, the line between Rhodes and Milliner there is pretty blurry. If we get an extra pick (or more) out of it, it's an even easier call.
I'd be fine with Vaccaro as well... I really like Gordon, Little was slightly more consistent towards the years end, I love the Nelson signing (Almost a Joe J. Clone, very good possesion WR) I personally think the addition of Chud and Turner is going to pay off HUGE! The two things I think the offense is really missing, is a TE, and a G
SAS, I do have to admit that I really didn't look into Patterson (since I didn't really look much into the WR position since I don't feel it's a pressing need and no one really seems to "Jump out at me"), until our debate started that is... and after watching some tape on Patterson, I'll admit that he does have some open field moves, and is definitely dangerous with the ball in his hands in the open field, BUT, he's VERY raw, his route running seems sloppy, not very crisp, and he really does seem to let the ball come into his body (and I know he's only got a 4.2% drop rate) but body catching the ball will lead to drops.... that WILL catch up to him! So not only do I not wanna see the Brown go Offense in round 1, I really don't want them to go Patterson in round one! Especially since I read that Josh Gordon would've been considered the top wideout in this draft class, we were able to "steal" him in the second round this year!
... and I don't disagree with any of that. I even used the Joe Jurevicius comparison over on the free agency thread. But there are a finite number of passes and a finite number of starts. Realistically, David Nelson won't beat out Greg Little for a starting job. With better QB play and as a full-time starter, Nelson only added 61 receptions, 658 yards and 4 touchdowns. Solid numbers, but nothing spectacular. Josh Gordon remains the only playmaker and even he is a huge questionmark going into Year 2. I just cannot see how having a handful of serviceable receivers and a very below average quarterback are somehow going to push a consistently anemic offense into an elite category. Even if the Chudzinski/Turner Overdrive is a shot of adrenaline to the eyeball.
