I find it amazing how quickly the fortunes (or misfortunes) of the Browns can change. Just a few seasons ago, offensive tackle was the least of the Browns' worries with Joe Thomas at LT and Mitchell Schwartz at RT. Then, Shasi Brown negotiated Schwartz out of town and Joe Thomas got injured and finally missed an offensive snap which, no doubt, weighed heavily on his decision to retire. At the moment, the strength of the O-line lies in the middle with Bitonio, Tretter and Ziegler and my eyes, at least, will be focused on Coleman, Corbett and Hubbard to see if some combination of those three tackles can alleviate some of the O-line angst in Cleveland.
Taking away from the Browns' draft score because they didn't take a Guard inside the top 5 overall really is laughable. And that's not even taking into account that we just invested $70m in our Guards last year...You don't spend a pick that high on a Guard. Ya just don't. Regardless of how many talking heads tell ya that you should. Forget moving Bitonio around. The ND Guard was NEVER a consideration in Berea... Dorsey gave his reasons for selecting Ward over Chubb and it made perfect sense. The media had everyone convinced that it HAD to be Chubb, so I guess we were gonna take hell for that selection no matter what. But I'm not surprised that's the pick that took the most criticism from Joe. He's wasn't the pick that Mel Kiper and other "experts" said we should take, plus he's an Ohio State player. That's a double-whammy around here... Drafting a Buckeye anywhere brings criticism...Why should Dorsey get a pass? FTR: No matter who took Antonio Calloway, and no matter what round it was, that pick was gonna get blasted. Just like everyone telling me last year that Joe Mixon probably wouldn't get drafted. This is pro sports. There comes a time when the value trumps the risk. It was a 4th round pick, but everyone still acts as if we wasted this incredibly precious commodity. smh. That's actually the perfect time to take a chance on a troubled first round talent. If he lets us down, we're out a 4th rounder. Not the end of the world. Calloway was absolutely worth the risk at that point. He just became a father. I can speak from personal experience that that can have a profoundly positive effect on a man ..But it was the Browns that took the chance, so it automatically is assumed this will fail...That's what 20 years of ineptness gets ya. And it matters not that the current regime had NOTHING to do with it...Just the way it is.
Browns fans are just tired of the never ending negativity over every decision ever made. We've been the league's designated punching bag long enough....You knew we were gonna bark. FWIW: I'm in complete agreement on Saints, Chiefs and Patriots draft rankings. I didn't like the Pittsburgh draft either. You had them pretty low, but I thought they should have been lower. They took a 3rd round prospect (at best) in the first, and then spent their 3rd rd pick on a guy that will likely contribute nothing. Safe to assume (I guess) that they aren't pleased with Dobbs... And I'm just busting your balls on the Browns grade, because you figured we would, and I didn't want to disappoint.... Truthfully though, you are way too low on both the Browns and the Rams....One could argue the Rams WON the offseason pretty easily. I understand they didn't actually draft players, but ya gotta take into account what they did with those commodities...
Exactly on the first part. I saw it coming and gave my own condolences to myself. I didn't factor the rest of the off-season much in these rankings or the Rams and Browns would have been higher.
With the Browns, I understand the pessimism. I really do. Even though John Dorsey had nothing to do with the last 20 years, it really doesn't matter. We have had failed regime after failed regime for two decades, so I get it. Until the Cleveland Browns prove it on the football field, I wouldn't expect anything else from the critics...They can't prove competency by writing names down on a card. In three years you will be giving the Browns an A+ for the 2018 draft based off of one pick; Our SB winning QB Baker Mayfield.... The Rams though are a very different story. I know their draft wasn't typical, but just for one example; They traded their #1 pick for Brandon Cooks. I think many would agree, that that was a pretty savvy move. Given the Rams draft position, it's a slam dunk IMO...They are one of the best teams in the NFL, and they are going all in for SB right now. They didn't want to draft a kid that they would have to develope because they need to strike while the iron is hot...All I'm saying in regards to LA is, take a look at the big picture...Would it have been better for them in 2018 to have Cooks or a rookie WR? They are going for it, and they used their draft commodities in a different way than usual because this is their time. The window is open now...I love what the Rams did. Just because they didn't actually spend their draft selections on rookies, doesn't mean they didn't have a great draft...
As I said, earlier it is more about the actual draft. The Rams weren't judged poorly for not having an early pick, just like the Browns weren't judged to be better because of the better overall talent they drafted. And it wasn't about the Browns, it could have been my Eagles and I would have had them there as well.
Yes, I know what you said...And I was pointing out how the Rams used their "actual draft" resources in a way that just might get them a SB this year. So IMO their draft ranking is way too low...Just my take.
Just one more thing on your Browns draft breakdown. How do you figure that this guy can't be a feature RB? Nick Chubb is a beast...
I agree with this. I also understand that we all see things differently and results are always subject to scrutiny. That's the beauty of rankings and personal inputs... they make for great conversation. I think the Rams did well also... especially considering their late round positioning. I think they did well for what opportunity they had is what I'm trying to say. The Rams certainly did well in the off-season with free agents which allowed them to attack the draft differently. Anyway, If I did a ranking, I'm sure there would be plenty to critique and bash and out right slaughter me on, lol. Ive enjoyed the discussions here by the way...
I have to agree with @TopDawg on this. Teams use draft picks to obtain players and/or additional draft picks, right? That's precisely what the Rams did. But, instead of using a draft pick on an unproven rookie player, they used it to obtain a proven veteran. That, to me, should improve their ranking . . . not detract from it.
Agree 100%...If Joe didn't do the work and put his opinion out there, than this discussion wouldn't even happen. We are talking football in May, and that's a good thing in my book. I think we can all agree that giving a draft "grade" before we ever see the product on the field is really more like "draft predictions"...All I care about is what the grade is a couple years down the road...
AI never at any point said it detracted from it. And I never said it never helped. I said it was only a very small part. Do I add Wentz, Darby, Bennett and so on to the Eagles draft grade? I'm trying to give a draft grade not an off-season one. It isn't always black and white on what counts more as there are a lot of factors. I decided to focus on the actual draft and minimize other factors as much as possible. Obtaining future picks and trade ups and downs are still factored a decent amount though.
I appreciate this thread getting all this action. Any discussion (that isn't detrimental, and I'm not saying there is any) is good discussion, especially when I'm taking my sweet ass time getting the next few posted.
If they obtained Darby and Bennett by trading THIS YEAR'S draft picks to get them . . . by all means include them in your thought process. Wentz? The Eagles surrendered a draft pick this year to draft him last year! You obviously don't understand what we're trying to tell you or you're just too damn stubborn to admit we have a valid point.
Oh no, you clearly do have valid points. I'm just saying there is more than one way to tackle this and I decided to let actions on draft day that weren't simple player for pick swaps (like Bryant) mean so much more because I wanted to focus on that. It's heavily weighted towards selections. I made that clear.
Who's Al? Kidding. I know it's a typo... Uhm no...Certainly not Wentz ....Why would you add a current veteran Eagles players to this years draft grade? Wentz would apply to the 2016 and 2017 Eagles draft grade. Darby, IMO would factor in. He was acquired by trading Jordan Mathews AND a 2018 3rd round pick. That's using a 2018 draft resource to bring in a player...Bennett would also factor in. There was a 2018 5th round pick sent to Seattle...It's really not that complicated...
Wentz would have went into last year's draft grade, I don't think he effects this year's draft much, does he? I would factor him in slightly due to the #64 pick. But to answer the question, I believe every player directly related to this draft gets tagged into that teams grade...Including Wentz
I have my grades set up for the actual draft, trying to take starting ammunition into account. Selections and pick management with giving up, getting current and future picks matter the most. Trades this offseason are put into account a bit and compared to the grand scheme of their draft with how it fits in. That doesn't account much though because just the same I need to account for Darby for the eagles and I don't think that is right in grading their draft this year. Darby and the Eagles, Cooks and the Rams. Different offseasons and not the draft. If the Eagles traded a 2018 1st for the best player ever back in 1990 should I take that into account in my grades? I don't think so. That's why I revamped my grading system. In the end I'm evaluating drafts. Almost like the scouting department is getting evaluated or a new GM that just got hired before the draft with complete control with a relatively clean slate to what got them there. It's not that hard to follow. Just understand the criteria being used and roll with it.
