NFL - Random Opinions

I'm gonna have to disagree here. Rhule has continually passed the buck on any of his short comings, scapegoating the very people he brought in to run his offensive scheme (two quarterbacks and an offensive coordinator).

The Panthers are solid with talent defensively but fail to consistently execute any semblance of a game plan. I think it's become obvious that there is no identity for them to build off of. The same can be said for the offensive side of the ball where the game plan appears to live and die by simply flowing everything through McCaffrey.

When Rhule can't rely on Christian to be the focal point he has not shown any ability to adapt and overcome.

Through 3 games the Panthers offense was operating at an above average level and appeared to have room to grow. The moment McCaffrey went down the offense did as well. They actually played a solid first half in week 4 against the Cowboys, but Rhule didn't adjust going into the second half and the game went sideways in the third quarter.

The fact that they could not rebound regardless of circumstance is a direct indictment of Rhule as a problem solver. It's two straight seasons where he has no answers to the weekly questions.

No quarterback on the roster this season has thrown for more touchdowns than interceptions. Teddy Bridgewater had the worst TD/INT ratio of his career as a starter going into the season working with Rhule.

I think he's one of 4 head coaches that should be considered the strongest bets to be fired at the end of this season, and I'd rank them like this:

1. Meyer
2. Nagy
3. Rhule
4. Zimmer

Culley, Fangio, Judge and Carrol are probably the next 4 names (in order).

Khan would be wise to fire Meyer quickly to close out the season. That job opening would likely be coveted by an offensive minded coach, same as the Chicago job. They both offer young quarterbacks with tremendous upside for a coach to work with. The Minnesota job would be another one that potential candidates would probably really be interested in.

But that Panthers gig may be a bit less desirable because of the reasons you alluded to. It's going to be a pressure cooker for whomever they bring in with immediate results needed to justify the hiring.

 

If the Broncos fire Fangio they're stupid. Get that man a legit QB and he will win games.

Matt Rhule doing what he has done, or hasn't done, in Carolina makes me a bit nervous about Ryan Day being a possible candidate to be the next Bears HC. A lot of these college guys just aren't ready or prepared for the NFL.

 

Likely victim of circumstance.

An ownership change doesn’t give him much chance to remain.

I would much rather see a college coordinator (offensive) hired in Chicago than a collegiate head coach.

HCs in college can sometimes be much better recruiters than game day planners, and talent can hide scheme deficiencies. With Day, it’s compounded with the idea that he doesn’t have a long enough track record to even know what he is yet.

If they’re interested in getting a young guy that they go long term with, Kenny Dillingham is intriguing. Graham Harrel is another one.

 

I agree with that mentality very much. I think Graham Harrell is pretty damn intriguing, actually. Dillingham is likely out with his possible pending move to Oregon. Plus he has a face you just want to punch and with Nagy we've been looking at one of those faces for 4 years.

 

I haven't kept up with the thread, just saw Tim's question, so excuse me if this has already been said.

I'm on record from several years ago calling for Pace's head. If he doesn't get fired, nothing else will matter. That dead weight needs to be first.

I don't think there is a short term solution for turning this team around. You've got three years of Fields' rookie deal, and with the capital that Pace has already spent (draft and cap) for those years, I have a hard time seeing how you put together a successful roster in that time.

So, I would like to see them go full rebuild - sell off anything with value, and recoup as much in the way of draft capital as possible. If they had any balls, they would've canned Pace before the deadline and brought someone in to firesale his garbage estate. Fields and a select few other players (Roquan, for example) will need big contracts, so you're going to need some stand-out rookies to fill in positions over the next few years. Borom and Jenkins give me some hope that MAYBE they can work out at T, but I won't count on that. Continue to invest in the OL, all day every day. Give Fields and Monty something in front of them. I think those two can make a mediocre group of WR's / TE's look a lot better, if they have a decent OL and OC. Mooney is good enough to give you a reliable complement to an offense based on run and PA with Fields' mobility.

Defensively, decide whether or not you're staying with the 3-4 or 4-3. They used to have several ILB's and NT's worth their salt - I don't think that is the case anymore. I think this roster is in a position where they could go either way going forward, mostly because they lack talent. Build around Roquan and JJ, and let everyone else prove they deserve to be here. Bring in the best DC you can, and let him call the shots.

I know this isn't as granular on the roster as you might be looking for, but I honestly think that most of this roster is useless. They have lots of guys who are just "guys". Maybe they'll look better with an actual coach, but I have to see it to believe it. Recoup assets, get out of bad contracts, and plan for three years down the road. The Bears have to do the opposite of the "star QB on rookie deal" strategy.

 

I dont know nearly enough about Rhule's college years, nor have i been following him in enough detail in the pros as im sure you have. So im def not saying you are wrong. But just to offer a thought or two:

The Panthers did indeed go downhill after they lost McCaffrey, but so would about 90% of other teams in this league probably. He's that important. Dudes a top 2-3 back and arguably the most dynamic back in the league. Really only Kamara could rival McCaffrey for that title with perhaps Eckler 3rd? Speaking of which, those 4 games Kamara recently missed the Saints went 0-4.

The other thing the Saints & Panthers shared is when they both lost said centerpieces they didnt have the QB to fall back on. And in the particular case of the Panthers they didnt even have the O-Line to pick up any slack either. Im not sure what we can realistically pin on Rhule here. The Panthers have made a very concerted effort to put resources into their Defense, and basically its worked. The Panthers D is currently allowing the 2nd fewest YPG in the league. They hold a lower ranking in PPG with the thread tying it together being a bottom 5 ranking in turnover differential. The Offense keeps giving the ball away and its killing the team.

Im not trying to make excuses here, but take away the one superstar player on the team, then factor in chronic mismanagement at both the QB & OL positions and a prioritised D and im just not sure how much we can blame Rhule for the lack of answers on Offense.


The one thing i would LOVE to know is how much input Rhule has on personnel decisions, in particular the QB last offseason and that #1 pick in the draft. Im not gonna dive into researching this, but i thought i read at the time Tepper hired him(that hire was all Tepper not Fitterer) that Rhule was going to be given a lot of power in this area. If so then he def takes a part own for the talent deficiencies.

Ultimately tho, JMO, i dont see him being anywhere near the top of that list for firings. For the simple reason Tepper inexplicably gave Rhule a 7 year contract! Why he did that i couldnt tell you, but that deal was worth $60mil, no way do i see Tepper paying 5years of dead contract. It would basically be like paying 2 HCs for the next half decade. Things would've had to go seriously sideways to eat that much contract, and while they're bad, they're not that bad. Id be very surprised if he didnt get a 3rd year.

 

@Tim maybe this should go on the Bears board but there's something ive been meaning to ask you for a while and dline touched upon it here...

You've prob seen that Roquan Smith has split plenty of opinion on our board over the years, most of it stemming from his rookie season/holdout. I think we all agree now he's playing really well, he's a very good player. I think he deserves his first pro bowl nod this year. Given how far into his rookie deal he now is, and the deals for Warner & Leonard who were in his draft class, talk is increasingly turning to what the Bears do with Smith. He will want to become the highest paid ILB in the league. That is not easy to stomach and not just based on his actual play.

I have doubts you can pay a $100mil contract to a player who isnt playing a premium position.

My questions are: 1- Would you pay Smith that kind of money and if not then what do you do? 2- Do you think MLB is still a premium position on a modern day Defense? Maybe that sounds like a silly question. Pass rusher, no question. CB1, yep. I would argue DT can be too. MLB always used to be, but im not as sure of it now as i once was.

 

On a related note, you're going to have the same conversation re: David Montgomery, soon. Obviously, that's a little less ambiguous - we know that paying a ton to the RB position is generally a bad idea unless you've got Derrick Henry. But we know Monty is very good, and we know that Fields needs talent around him. I guess that conversation will be influenced by the OC / Fields' development by that time, but I'm savoring my time with Monty while I've got it...

 

Before I respond to your post, I just wanted to say that I enjoy our back and forth discussions on coaches.

Your opinion on Rhule and the Panthers has little to argue with because, at its core, you're simply stating your point of view on it. It's like our discussion on Anthony Lynn. There's really no right or wrong about it, there's just differing perspective on why we think someone is about to get the hook or not.

Rhule built up a reputation on turning around programs and making them competitive at both Temple and Baylor, after the Bears started to decline. He was able to change the way both schools were approaching recruitment to reshape the rosters. He found ways to get some surprising wins that ultimately elevated his stock, but how much of that came from scheming up to beat better competition compared to playing with better talent or against inadequate coaching from the other sideline makes for a wide open field for argument.

The way he closed out at Baylor should probably be looked at as a bit of a barometer, considering how ineffective he was at making in game changes with the Sooners, and could not scheme a way to beat a Bulldogs team that was missing at least 9 starters.

It could be that Rhule is an excellent recruiter and talent evaluator, specifically for one side of the ball. Definitely makes a bit of sense as to why he would make his entire first draft class reflect the same side of the line of scrimmage.

It doesn't come off like you're trying to make excuses because it is a reality that without a star at a primary position, other positions become innately more important. However, it's not the idea that the Panthers would regress without McCaffrey but more how Rhule and Brady failed to make the changes needed in the third quarter of the game in week 4 to stay in it, then smashed the panic switch going into the following weeks. There was no feeling of a steady hand, ability to redefine the offense in the short term, or an understanding of what they had on offense that could work instead of simply trying to force matters through a myopic lens.

This goes back to what I was saying about the ability to identify talent on one side of the ball but fail to do so on the other. If you can't identify the strengths and weaknesses of your offensive personnel then the ability to formulate a winning game plan with that talent is greatly diminished.

The other thing that stands out is how the roster rallied around a returning Cam for a week and played like they had a hunger on offense that wasn't there previously. That bump in adrenaline was short lived, and now they are back to playing flat.

I believe Rhule understands defense from a personnel standpoint. I believe he knows where players should line up within the scheme to get the most out of their talents.

I'm not sold on his ability to game plan that defense each week to deal with changes, and I have seen nothing to this point to make me believe he can develop an offense or scheme for the talent he has.

My understanding is that he does have immense sway over the decision making, which again would line up with the idea that he can identify defensive talent and the best way to line that talent up within his defense.

It would also line up with the idea that he cannot properly evaluate his own offensive talent, and we don't know yet if he can find/develop talent for that side of the ball within his idea of an offense.

It depends on what kind of outs there are within his contract, but how about I add another reason to why you may be right on him not having a warm seat right now...

His rebuilds at the college level have shown their first signs of strong gains in year 3. That would give him a resume note that the ownership/management can point to and give as a justification to the media, and the fanbase, for why Rhule won't get the hook. It's something that can save a coach from getting fired because it gives the decision makers a viable excuse to stay the course, for the moment.

So, at this juncture, you may ultimately have the stronger case for why he remains for at least one more year.

I still believe his scapegoating of Joe Brady may be the deal breaker going into 2022. If the offense doesn't rebound it's impossible for him to justify that firing considering it was his decision to move on from Teddy, his decision to bring in Sam, his decision to make it known Sam would never get another crack and, if the offense continues to be shit, his decision for firing Brady will be seen for what it ultimately was - an attempt to shield himself from criticism for those very decisions.

Add in that Rhule hasn't won over the fans, media or potentially the locker room in Carolina and there is enough meat on the bone for ownership to say "we would like to thank Matt for helping us rebuild the roster but we need to move the organization in a different direction".

 

Before I can answer these questions, I need to ask you one to set the table (this goes along with your thoughts on Montgomery, @dlinebass5 ).

Do you see the Bears in a quick turnaround scenario, or do you see this as a longer term rebuild? With the obvious assumption being that Fields is the quarterback for either of those options.

 

Huntly looks like a better QB than Lamar.

 

Maybe he's a Steeler next year.

 

As do I. The old days on CBS that place was often a warzone and a cesspit, but there were also some people on there who you could have really great discussions with where you talked other teams/NFL in general and really got into it. I appreciate you finding the time when we get into one cos its always top chat.

I think you're being too charitable here Tim heh. You came out early on and said Lynn was gone at the end of that season. I said i thought he would turn it around and we had a good back and forth as always.... but in the end you were proven decisively correct.

You know its not often that its hard to assign a coach to one side of the ball, and maybe this is just my own lack of knowledge, but Rhule does seem fit that description in a way. The offensive side gets accentuated probably since thats where he's been in more recent years with QBs coaching and then OC. But Rhule's original background is actually Defense.

When you look at the draft picks the last 2years and then the talent evaluation on both sides as you mentioned, it sure does feel like there is a clear leaning in both evaluational talent and prioritisation, towards Defense. He had cover for that his first year cos he inherited and terrible Defense and that side needed draft picks thrown at it. But this year was different, and at the severe risk of beating a dead horse, having got the QB i still cant get over the fact he took a CB in round 1 over a LT. It was a big mistake.

It all points to a HC with significant control in personnel matters. I must admit, the more we talk about this subject the more i am coming round to your point of view. I will still be surprised if he doesnt survive to next season, and i also think like the Bears, there is a root cause discussion to be had re a flawed organisational structure at the top. But Rhule does indeed seem to own a significant portion of the fail thats taking place down there currently.

 

Well teams can have quick turnarounds out of nowhere where they surprise everyone(the old worst to first thing), so i cant completely rule that out for the Bears, especially seeing how they do have a QB with a ton of potential.

But i look at that roster and my over-riding feeling is that there is no quick turnaround happening here. Top brass is terrified of the word "rebuild", they actually tried to pitch the fanbase that the John Fox years weren't rebuild lolol. But rebuild is whats in store imo. Minimum 2 drafts/offseasons, possibly more even.

 

Taken directly from an ad on FB.

 

Make it go away!

 

Sorry Tim.
I’ve been working non-stop lately and focused on fantasy playoffs.

Just noticed this now. I’ll respond later today

 

Overall, I have to agree.

I think where you could see the most improvement in this team is also where you won’t anytime very soon. And that’s at quarterback. I’m just not a big Wentz believer. I think he’s the kind of QB who makes you credible as a talented roster, but not a legitimate threat to win it all. He reminds me a bit of Tony Romo later in his career, in that he might put up decent stats and might look pretty good week to week, but the mistakes he does make often prove very costly. And I would probably go on to argue Tony Romo was a better overall quarterback and a more calming presence. And Wentz will go on to prove more costly, because he’s going to leave us short of a first round pick in this upcoming draft. Which brings me to the depth at positions two and three that could alter this teams ability to be a legitimate threat.

I would argue a legitimate lock down #1 cornerback would be the next most impactful position we could improve. We have Kenny Moore who is excellent in the slot. But I would argue around him we could improve at spots 1, 2, and 4. A lot of our shortcomings at the position are masked by a good scheme, and high-level play from our linebackers and safeties. Not a huge knock on the guys we have now, but they are better in our scheme than they are as overall players. It’s one spot Ballard has not hit any home runs on. He spent high picks on Quincy Wilson and Rock Ya-Sin, and neither has proven to be more than an average depth piece. We’ve taken shots at free agents, who have filled in admirably. But again, I’m making the argument that to be a legitimate contender a true lockdown #1 is what we need. And neither has lived up to that. More on this later.

The third position I think that could take us to another level I will simply call receiver. Michael Pittman can continue to take strides and be a very good player. Now what we could use is one more mismatch, whether it be from the Wideout position, or at tight end. No knock on Jack Doyle, but no one will compare him athletically to George Kittle or Waller. What that could do if we find it is continue to help Wentz look more like a legitimate top 10 QB, and less like a game manager we have to protect with a top three run game. It could open our offense up to be much more dynamic.

Tying into the progression of Pittman, and linking back to the cornerback insights, another thing that hopefully will make us a bigger threat in 2022 is the progression of some of our edge rushers. Ballard has spent plenty of assets trying to improve that position, and no one has taken the job and run away with it. What we have is again a bunch of guys so far that fit our scheme quite well, but none has proven to be an elite edge rusher. I think the hopes are that in 2022 Kwity Paye will run away with that title. That could take our defense to the next level and help mask certain deficiencies in the back four.

So in closing, without a first round pick I think the three best things we could do to make us a legitimate threat in 2022 is see some progression from both Pittman and Kwity Paye. And then with our top pick in this draft land either a legitimate mismatch in the pass game or a shut down CB.

Although I should add I love our head coach, and I love our GM. It’s a top three duo in this league. They seem to keep everyone focused in the right direction regardless of the noise. And that’s a very promising sign for any franchise.

 

They pirated the pic... He doesn't have his greasy long hair in this one.

 

LOL great description Irish!