I don't think Berry is looking to use any draft capital in this year's draft. I would be surprised if he traded back into the first. Besides, I don't know that he likes any of the QBs in this class. He has been trying everything under the sun to get a veteran in here so he doesn't have to take a rookie high. He will take a QB, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he waited until the 3rd or 4th round.
So was I... I could see ANY of these teams take Sanders in the first, including the Browns, but I doubt it. I think they rate Abdul Carter too high to pass on him. I will honestly be shocked if he isn't the pick.
I’m trying to decide if this is sarcasm or not. What I meant was, if they’re “all-in”, as the Rams have tended to be, then I can see them wanting to use 26 on the best available DB/WR/Edge. Try for 1 more Superbowl in the Stafford era. And if they do that, I’m not sure how they have early round ammo to get Dart or whomever, unless they’re spending 1’s from next year. Still possible
If Cleveland has made the decision to pass on Shedeur at #2, then they have also accepted the reality that they may leave this draft with no quarterback from this class. They cannot control anything beyond that pick, which means they could watch whatever other passer they may covet come off the board to another team. This would also mean that they understand the reality of going into the season with Kenny Pickett as the starter being the only guarantee they have right now at the position. There is no forcing the Falcons to give up Cousins, unless they overpay. They would have to sign Flacco and hope he plays better than what he did last year for the Colts, which is definitely a possibility, but still not guaranteed. Do they sign Carson Wentz? It was rumored he was an option in mid-March. Joe Milton went for a 5th and 7th, so I can see the reasoning behind not making that move for the Browns and taking a flier on upside. If they are looking to draft a passer in 2026, the only way to ensure they absolutely get who they want - tank the season. Right now, the top of the list would be Arch and Drew, with an argument for Nico and LaNorris. Arch could opt to stay in school or his family could pull an Eli, so he's no guarantee to be available. That would make Allar the only reasonable target to view as a guarantee for a tanking team to draft in 2026. Is Cleveland willing to throw away a year to make Drew Allar the top pick of the 2026 draft? That will have to be part of the line of thinking involved if they pass on Sanders at #2. If not, then they are riverboat gambling on options for another passer in 2025 that they may never get in a Cleveland jersey.
So I spent the big bucks ,2 $ , and joined the Athletic because I really like Bruce Feldman. His big board has Sanders at 25 which I think is spot on. Then there is the next tier of QB rated late 50's to low 60's, which aligns with what Dawg is saying. The ones we see getting moved way up because of desperation. I am not sure if I like the plan to suck this year for Manning or Allar, players and coaches are there to win. No fan base wants to be picking in the top 5 forever. But there are 3 players in his top 100 I was like WOW, I have them lower than that, so I must read more. BUT........... I still refuse to pay for ESPN anything, Fuck them.
Not Sarcasm. They could move up with the Steelers from 26 to 21 with pick 101 and 190. I am sure there they have "a guy" who fell to 21 and they're like, call Pittsburgh. Just a theory, a hunch, maybe I'm full of shit but there will be trades. I am saying Philly and Rams are real good candidates.
I see your logic, and here is 2022 all over again. Kenny F. Pickett was a train wreck, over-drafted, reality is that Mason Rudolph is better. No other QB even went until three of them went in round 3, smart teams wait. Is 2025 as bad as 2022, no, but there is no QB in this draft without major flaws. Some scouts say Sanders is nothing like his dad, probably a 4.7 guy and he took took many sacks playing Hero Ball. At one point in this process Ewers was graded out to round 2, some buzz around him basically died a slow death. McCord is interesting, a guy who might do well in the NFL, but where are you taking him. And is he worth giving up capital for trying to jump teams who you think might take him. Malik Willis was being talked about as a first round QB to Pittsburgh, but cooler heads prevailed and like I said, after Kenny Mittens not much movement on QB until Atlanta took Desmond Shitter. And to Atlanta's credit boy are they glad they waited, he sucks as a starter when he got his shot, 12-12 TD to INT ratio, and The Falcons got rid of him to The Raiders, where lousy QB's go to die.
A few places are where lousy QBs go to die. I nominate J-E-T-S over anyone else honestly. Or Chicago has a storied history. The QB conversation is interesting. I think a lot of us draftniks and the lesser informed media talking heads complicate the conversation unnecessarily. I feel like those in the industry don’t waiver nearly as much as the mocks/talking heads do. Like did Jeremiah ever really say that Malik Willis would go top 10? I can’t remember. But seems unlikely. On the other hand, as they say, it only takes one team to like you (Tebow at 25). So even if 30 teams think Milroe for example should go between 65-95, it only takes one OC with sway in his GMs ear to get him selected at 50 maybe. Or Ewers, use whoever. Personally McCord is the one to me who really has zero business in top 90 conversation. I could argue for Dart,Milroe, Ewers, Shough, Howard. Shough will be interesting because the injury history is very real. But Penix tore up his knee x2 also. And he went top 8. I would argue his tape (I think @ShanePHallam agrees) should have slotted him between 30-60. But…the wheels keep on turning. I honestly am starting to believe the average fan gives too much credit to NFL front offices. Starting to think 1/3 of the league makes $hit up worse than one of us inheriting a team late in a mock when the GM fails to show.
Well, now you’re just being mean, lol. J/K of course. I just don’t prescribe to the take a guy no matter what theory. I don’t think this is the right thread to jump into the free agent discussion, which is a whole other debate on its own. But, if they do it right, strengthen the defense and run game, they might just come out of this stronger than fucking 3-14. That’s the nightmare I lived through in 2024. So back to the draft talk and QBs that are not yet employed by the NFL. No, don’t lose for anyone, anytime. No scenario would make sense to attempt dumping games to get a higher draft pick for the future. 1) no one knows who will be available in the 2026 draft. With NIL and the draft portal, any player could decide their draft stock isn’t where they want it to be and stay to try and improve it. Even QBs that believe they might be a first round pick, but may not be a top ten pick. 2) the mass dissenters in the locker room, you may never recover from. Players like Garrett will not allow the team to “tank”. This regime has done nothing to point to that being any sort of the plan… I’m done talking about that ridiculous idea. Passing om Sanders has a very simple explanation. He doesn’t grade out well enough to warrant the pick. SOMEONE is going to be desperate enough to take him higher than they should (I’m looking in your direction New York), I sure as hell hope and pray that isn’t the Browns. I wish I could make the period at the end of that sentence bigger, I can’t stress enough how much I don’t want any QB not named Ward in this draft. I would only want Ward because that would probably mean Abdul Carter is no longer available. I would be willing to take a chance on Ward though, I would not take a pass.
I wish I couldn’t say this, but Cleveland has become That place. The last 25 years and a t-shirt with so many names on it it drags the ground prove they are the black hole.
Difference being, Jets have now had 2 H-o-f’ers come there and look incompetent. Plus, have a “bust” leave only to look top 10 elsewhere. All in last 20 years. Guys in Cleveland have always been bad. In Jets town they can be good anywhere BUT Jets town. (Okay, Baker’s your one counter)
Well, the Browns take a kid #1 overall, he takes them to the playoffs and two years later replace him with a serial sex offender who gets paid more money guaranteed than any other player in history. He goes on to take his new team to the playoffs and the creeper is still getting paid while sitting at home with yet another injury… we need an emoji mic drop
lol All apologies. Because we will obviously be looking back on everything post-draft, I just want to make sure I'm being clear about what I meant in the post you responded to. I'm not advocating for Cleveland to tank. I'm just pointing out what levers of control they actually have going forward when it comes to correcting the most important position on the field. 1. They take the best possible quarterback prospect at #2 overall. It's the only way to guarantee they come out of this draft with a quality prospect at the position. 2. They go into 2025 knowing that only Pickett, Flacco or Wentz are their guaranteed starting options. Even if they are willing to overpay for Cousins, the Falcons do not have to deal him. They could simply try and wait it out for a potentially better deal when a starter is injured on another roster, or just never entertain the idea of moving him. 3. The front office and ownership are in agreement that giving up on 2025 is the best way to draft the passer they want in 2026. Allar is the only one of the projected top 4 to not have any eligibility left, so they would have to go into it knowing that he may be the only one they get to have a chance at selecting. 4. They gamble on a quarterback they hope will be available at #33, because there is no guarantee of moving up to get a player, or that the player will be there. This is the reality they are boxed into. It's compounded by a coaching staff and front office that may be out of work if the situation isn't corrected. If Berry chooses to pass on a quarterback and they win 5 or more games, maybe he and Stefanski save their jobs. But that also puts them farther away from getting a quarterback next season. Basically, improving the record with Pickett, Cousins, Flacco or Wentz only lengthens the amount of time until they can get a passer that can be the long-term solution. If the thought process is to ride out Deshaun's contract before going after a quarterback, then continuing to lose games is going to be part of that equation, because they may not have a quarterback on the roster to be ready for when that contract is gone, and there is no guarantee that they are going to be in position to get one when it is.
A few guys I would like to see late in the draft or as UDFAs with position changes: Ke'Shawn Williams converted to RB Jamahl Banks converted to TE Kavian Gaither converted to SS Steve Linton converted to 3-4 ILB De'Rickey Wright converted to 3-4 ILB Kain Medrano converted to SS Jailin Walker converted to SS Jacoby Jones converted to TE
So, Brett Favre (on his last stop) and Aaron Rodgers (should be his last stop) is the biggest argument? In the last 25 years the Jets have had 35 starting QBs In the last 25 years the Browns have had 40 starting QBs Very similar, honestly... I will use my Watson trump over your washed up HOF QBs card and call it a day, lol.
This is the exact argument I keep making with Giants fans. "Sanders isn't worth #3 overall." Ok I mean sure I agree with you. Giants had a R2 grade on Sanders if he entered the draft last year... Did he really do anything to change that this season? But do you REALLY think the HC/GM on the hot seat are going to pass on a QB in this draft because they signed Wilson to a 1 year deal and Watson to a 2 year deal? If you don't take your guy early you better be prepared to miss out entirely. Two seasons in a row now the Giants won meaningless games that cost them the QB they coveted. Banking on Milroe being there at 34 and be a more meaningful pick then the guys you have to pass on for him, or being able to trade back into the first means you either have to be willing to overpay in a trade or you are betting on getting lucky... You can't play the draft that way if your job is on the line...
Catching strays over here.... I do agree with you though. No one seems to have a read on what the Giants or Browns actual intentions are. Shefter is a mess lol. He was so certain the Browns were taking Sanders and the Giants were lamenting they would miss out at first. Now he thinks neither team seems likely to take him. If I were the Browns I take Carter. If I were the Giants I would be praying the Browns take Sanders so I can take Carter. Most Giants fans seem to be salivating over Hunter. (Give me the pass rusher though... I want to get back to dominating pass rush that USED to be this franchises identity...) I HATE the idea of passing on blue chip players for non-blue chip players. But QB is the one position where you make that exception I think. But man does it feel like you are not stepping down one tier but at least 2 when you talk about passing on blue chip guys for Sanders...
None needed, I love this back and forth. Unfortunately Watson ruined a fanbase who talked to each other relentlessly. Now, I can't find a soul on these boards that has enough interest to converse. Believe me, no one knows more than I about the situation at hand. You have listed them out admirably, but unfortunately, they aren't the secret sauce. At the end of the day evaluating how to improve your team is the task at hand. The obvious answer when you don't have a QB is, improve the QB room as well as possible. When there isn't a viable option there, you have to improvise and look at the roster holistically to put yourself in the best box for wins. If you evaluate a QB class and see someone with a few areas that spark potential, then you go for it and hope your coaching staff is capable of nurturing those traits. If there just aren't enough traits there, then you move on to your next option. I think they did their due diligence on this class and came away with 5 prospects that they wanted to look into further. Ward, Sanders, Dart, Milroe and Shough. They went the extra step to invite these 5 prospects on private visits to dig deeper into psyche and their mental ability. All indications are they have moved on from Sanders at #2. They took one visit and have not really expressed much interest past that visit. I think the Sanders camp are also resigned to the fact he will not be going to Cleveland because Shedeur was caught on camera talking to his uncle and pretty much told him he expects to be in New York. At the same time, they have taken an extra visit with ownership and coaching staff to have a separate private dinner with Abdul Carter in PA. I don't think the Browns are hiding the direction they are going at #2. I think they are parading it to the world to say, if you want Carter, you need to make me one helluva an offer to come get him. I know there are a lot of smoke and mirrors that take place in the NFL, but frankly, Ward is going #1 overall. That is a forgone conclusion. The Browns have no meaningful reason to play any other game than, this is who we are taking, so if you want him, come and get him at a steep price. Frankly, I think this speaks volumes to the evaluation process and just how low Sanders was evaluated. If he had even some of the traits you want in a franchise guy, they would be parading him around, even if they plan to take Carter. That way, they could muster up a bidding war for the QB. Now, when it comes to playing games. They might be being blunt in the fact that they believe Carter is just too much to pass on, but want Sanders to lose credibility enough to drop low enough to give them a chance to trade up into the 20's to get him. I just don't think a team takes that kind of chance if they think the QB has something. If you deem a guy worthy of ANY first round grade, you take him at #2. I truly believe that next group of QBs after Ward, including Sanders, has low second to low third round grades and are not far apart from each other. They have different skill sets, with Milroe being an outlier apart from the other three. Sanders has proven more at the college level, but he has also had a much easier schedule playing in the Big 12. Both Dart and Milroe have a leg up being in the SEC and Shough is bringing up the rear playing in the ACC... Anyone that puts strength of schedule into the mix of talent evaluation will take Sanders down a couple of pegs for his 2024 success as an individual. As for the other QBs, I can't tell you at what level they have them rated or where they stand up against other potential prospects. It does look like they have moved on from phase 1 of "Improve my Roster" which is QB and are in phase 2 of strengthening the positions everywhere else. They are in win mode with the stance on Garrett. Strengthening that side of the ball, while putting updated players on offense seems to be their strategy for 2025. I agree with that strategy if it really is their intention. I do believe this regime believes in, what do we do to win in the CURRENT year. They are not planning for down the road without a viable option to plan with. The scenarios we have discussed with veterans are the best options they can bring in to achieve some success in 2025. Cousins or Flacco are probably the best options, with Wentz being a distant 3rd. It's a fun off season with actual draft picks in hand....I've missed this the last 3 years.
Today, I’m not sure. But I think he’s capable in the right system, of becoming a top 12 Quarterback in the league. That automatically makes him worthy of a pick in that range, right?
