NCAA stuff

Louisville does not have a D-1 hockey program. IMO, it is beneath the dignity of L4S to post any comments about that university here.

 

MIA - We have a NCAA Basketball thread I posted about LU and Pitino pal. It's down under MLB.

 

The NHL now has a program in place to help colleges interested in adding hockey programs. This will pay for the important feasibility study.

Terry Pegula was at the presser. Of course he once gave a cool $100MM + to get Penn State up to D-1. This past season the Nittany Lions were briefly ranked #1 in the country last season. Good investment, Terry!

In any case, the Univ. of Illinois is the first to take advantage of the NHL program. They sound pretty serious about eventually moving to D-1. They'd be the first D-1 program in a state where youth hockey is huge. Go Fighting Illini! (Are they still that, or are they too the Fighting Hawks?)

 

University of Illinois-Chicago once had a D1 team. Lost it in the mid 80s if I recall. Kent State too.

 

Robert Morris Univ., Chicago, has a good club level team. But a D-1 program in an area is a huge plus for developing an interest in youth hockey.

Youth hockey:
1) Good!
2) Promotes a more knowledgeable and passionate hockey fan base.
3) More talent = better play at all levels, but especially noticeably at the NHL level.

 

i don't know if it's the same for colleges but many High Schools in Philly have Ice Hockey as a Club sport as the HS doesn't want to pay the insurance on it. They are sponsored by the HS and compete on high levels for championships including the Catholic League Title and the Flyers Cup, but they are not supported via money. I don't know if college programs who are not Div 1 but could be fall in the same boat for hockey ?

I know my nephew, who is headed to Penn State main campus this fall, will golf on a Penn State club team. This is not the varsity of the school. It's very solid golf team that travels vs other club teams with no college affiliate or college rankings.

 

We'll need our resident BC insider to comment on this.

Eeli Tolvanen is from Finland, but I guess because he skated last season for Sioux Falls in the USHL, the NHL had him rated as a North Amer. skater - he was ranked #8, but fell to #30 in the first round when STL traded up for the skilled RW.

He was committed to Boston College this fall but evidently won't matriculate. He did not meet BC's standards; his English is pretty good - perhaps he's just a tad slow between he ears. Matty, can you get the dope on this dope?

It's good for the Blues that he's AHL eligible, because otherwise he'd probably be headed for the OHL. I'd rather have high prospects develop in the NCAA against men rather than big boys in the CHL. However, the Blues minor league affiliation is a mess. They're going to share the Chicago Wolves (AHL) with Vegas. But, the VGK will control the org., including the coaching and hence the system. All in all, Eeli has a less enviable path to the NHL because he won't be admitted to BC.

 

the co-opt usually means the controlling team controls the goalie distribution. must suck for the blues.

 

Dan-what is the higher rated league ? The OHL, CHL or NCAA?

You mention above playing against men--maybe the Juniors and Seniors. The Freshman and Sophomores are 18 and 19 and a year or two just out of High School. I thought the experienced players were in the OHL and CHL?

 

Players in the NCAA range generally from 19 to 22 or 23. The CHL tops out at 20.

What are you suggesting?

If the NCAA rosters were identical age-wise to the CHL, I do not think there's any question of which has better talent. But, that gap is not great, and college players stay in college unlike the CHL graduates. Since they also tend to get better with age, I'd actually give the overall talent advantage to the NCAA.

There can be no questioning that college players compete against fully grown men, and the CHL is essentially very big boys.

If I were the Blues, I'd want Tolvanen in BC.

 

Having reread your message, I'll respond differently.

I think you're wrong, and I think the facts comparing the WHL, OHL, & QMJHL (collectively, the CHL) vs. the NCAA establish beyond refute that the competition, on average, is older in the NCAA. And, that the age difference is a tremendous advantage favoring the college game.

BTW, a college roster usually consists of 26 players. It is true that Freshmen & Sophomores typically make up more than 50% of the roster. But, the starting lineup, and those getting most of the TOI are Jrs. & Srs. college players. Regardless of class level, most of the on ice competition is against fully grown men. CHL players do not - by the definition of "fully grown" - ever get that opportunity.

The dramatic growth of both the NCAA and also of NCAA players in the NHL, I believe, attests to the developmental advantage inherent to the NCAA.

 

nothing. i was only asking a question about what is the better league.

 

ok. i was asking a question about who has the better league. this was not asking it based on age. i never said anything about who has older talent or players.

i know you heard of the phrase "men against boys." a 18 or 19 yr old vs a 22 or 23 yr old is just that. that's all i was trying to say.

 

here's a different question - you mentioned graduating and college. i wonder as so many college basketball players and some football have trouble with school & exams, do hockey players pass on college/NCAA because of school & exams and just play in the QMJHL?OHL/CHL instead? The NBA only requires 1 year of college service before they are eligible for the NBA draft. I know some are probably thrilled at that. Kevin Garnett didn't go to college bc his test score were that low. Derek Rose was caught having someone else take his SATs for him just to go to college. Garnett didn't care and went to the NBA straight out of HS. Kobe Bryant on the other hand turned down Duke and Stanford and went to the NBA out of HS.

is this an issue for hockey players?

 

The stats. say that colleges pass on hockey players much more frequently than the other way around. The law od supply and demand dictates this; there are only so many D-1 hockey programs and there are more players that want them than there are roster spots.

Also, collegiate hockey is still largely in a bygone era when we reflect on which D-! programs exist. The Ivy League teams, along with most peers in the ECAC still, genuinely, place an emphasis on academics over athletics. They still do not offer sport's scholarships - and we are talking about very expensive private institutions for the most part - yet, they have no trouble finding freshman recruits each year.

Sure, these are young men (really big boys) that possess both athletic talent and are academically gifted. But college is becoming a much more accepted, even embraced, path to hockey development.

Circling back to the young Finn drafted by the Blues; he selected BC for very good reasons. I expect that one reason he fell to the bottom of the first was the word was out that he would not matriculate at BC, and hence his development would be stunted relative to the options now available.

I still would like to hear from Matty since he is very piped into college hockey and BC especially. Can you shed any light on why BC rejected him?

 

There is no absolute perfect selection for any given individual. But, for the purposes of developing all but the extremely high prospects; for the purposes of developing the prospect that will require the typical 1 to 3 years before he gets a real crack at an NHL roster, the NCAA offers a better development path for many. I think it really comes down to this: can the prospect succeed in a collegiate environment, (balance social life, athletics, and academics)? It is not that the CHL offers benefits so much that the CHL is a path of less resistance and therefore appealing.

 

thanks Dan on both posts. great info as always.

I didn't know Ivy schools don't have athletic scholarships till I was a Senior in HS. A HS colleague of mine went to Princeton and is now the Hoops coach at the University of Richmond. He was from a middle class family in NE Philly and he parents did everything they could to afford the tuition at Princeton. He played basketball there too under famed coach Petey Carril.

 

When talking development and numerating different leagues, I would venture Swedish leagues first and the NCAA second at this point in time. Both are pipelines now. IMO

 

I think that the Swedish and Finnish leagues are outstanding. The one advantage that the NCAA has relative to them is the smaller ice size, better acclimating Euro prospects to the NHL game.

 

Per thescore.com: