Looking Forward to the 2021 AFC North

Not at all. It's for things like my love for Jamies Winston, and my inability to research, nevermind the fact that it was your stupid take....

You have just been argumentative from the start. You've twisted things all around to try and fit the point you aren't making. It's been fun.

The best part is that you still continue the mantra that Lamar is a better passer than Baker Mayfield. It's comical to me, but stick with it my friend. Sorry for the namecalling, I don't like when people insult my intelligence. As far as I know, I've never had a problem with you in the past, so I'm not sure what the deal is, but don't act like you haven't been instigating.

 

This was my original response, which I believe is quite accurate

.....Raven took it sideways on the next post, and it went from there. Pretty silly.

 

I think you should go back and read objectively. You stated you how important production was for you. So how can you turn around and say the most productive QB in 2019 wasn't good as well. For some reason, people hate having their criteria used against them. These were your words:

"I'm touting production throwing the football"

Well, nobody was more productive throwing the football in 2019 than Winston.

First off, you responding to me argumentative. Remember, you engaged me. 2nd, let's not pot and kettle this. For you to say I'm twisting things to make a point, here's a few gems of yours:

"the football world knows that LJ is no gunslinger" - I haven't made a single comment on Jackson outside of his career statistics outside of cumulitive totals are better than Mayfield's, which is fact

"but I'm sorry you don't like your OC's scheme" - I never gave my opinion on my OC's scheme.

"But if you want to keep pretending that you guys have a fast version of Johnny Unitas, have at it" - Again, not once have I gave an opinion on Lamar outside of throwing better than Baker.

So who's been twisting things to fit the point they aren't making?

EDIT: For the record, I have no issue with you

 

My original response to that stands. If you feel that cumultive totals means one QB is better then yes, you must have though Winston was great in 2019. I'll always stick to the passer with the higher career numbers in completion %, passer rating, and yards per attempt all while having much worse supporting cast.

 

Lest I remind, we are on the Cleveland Browns threads. So if if someone comes on here with a less talented passer and tries to imply he's better than Mayfield in that capacity, it's simply my duty as TopDawg to respond. lol! Especially to the delusional little rival Ravens fan.

 

Good thing I came on here with a better passer then

Completion percentage, yards per attempt, passer rating, TD %, INT %, QBR >>>>> Throws more

 

Your response was complete garbage, and is what triggered this nonsense. lmao!

 

I agree. Saying someone is good or better because of cumultive passing yards is triggering and a completely garbage take. At least we can agree on that. Cheers

 

Happy Mothers Day....Mine passed a couple years ago. Value the time you have.

 

I know that pain. Lost mine in 03 and days like this still hurt. Some things you never truly get passed/over. Happy mother's day to all.

 

I’m not sure how this went the wrong way on the tracks. I didn’t read it this way at all.

The way I read it is @SAS giving him CREDIT for being a better rusher than an actual RB in the division, the fact he is a QB didn’t seem to come into question.

If he did the same post for QBs in the AFC North, I’m pretty sure he would still be listed ahead of Ben Roethlisberger.

He is a dual threat, but when talking about his skills you need to then separate the two. When he runs a designed run play, he IS a running back. When he runs a designed pass play, whether he throws it or not, he is a QB.

 

Now that we both have TEAMS that are capable of putting themselves in the playoffs. Both QBs are a part of that team atmosphere.

I want the QB that can step up in the big game.

Which of the two can do that?

Answer that and this pissing contest is over.

 

Come on, Irish. I just read the board, you participate in it regularly enough. SAS has tons of posts like this:

"Either way, Happy Monday to the rest of the AFC North quarterbacks (and also to Lamar Jackson)."

These are his words from 4/12. There are many more.

Hmm. It depends. If you're looking at win percentage in prime time games, I'd assume Lamar wins. If you mean win and you're in games, Lamar wins. If it's playoff win percentage Baker wins. Of course one QB has had less opportunity to fail in that respect.......although if I'm being fair you could also say he's had less opportunity to succeed

 

Pffft, what kind of cop-out bs is that? "Pissing contest"? Nice. Wow. Did you bother to read any of it, and if so please clarify the points I made that you disagree with.... Sorry I tried to defend Baker (on the Browns threads) as a better passing QB than Lamar Jackson. Don't know wtf I was thinking...

FTR...Since both QB's have only been in the league for 3 years, we might have to wait to get your nonchalant answer as to which QB is more clutch....

Evidently I'm out on a limb here in thinking Baker is the better passer and that Jackson depends much more on his legs....

 

Man, everyone is so cranky today

 

My point TD is this...

High School
Lamar Jackson history: Quit football his sophomore season of high school, transferred to a new school his junior year, had one playoff game in which his team lost 49-6 and he threw (2) INTs. Never won a playoff game in high school.
Baker Mayfield: Was 25-2 as the starter of his high school, helping the school win a state championship

College
Lamar Jackson: He was recruited by Florida, Auburn and Clemson, yet chose to go to Louisville, where there would be less competition in the locker room as well as opponents.
Baker Mayfield: Walk on at Texas Tech, became the only Division 1 True Freshman Walk On to ever start a game in NCAA (immediate starter). Due to scholarship issues, he transferred to Oklahoma without talking to the football program. He then walked on for the second time after completing his 1 year of ineligibility due to transfer rules, became an immediate walk on starter in his first year of eligibility.


Lamar College Championship/Bowl games:
Motor City Bowl - Win
Citrus Bowl - Lost
TaxSlayer Bowl - Lost
Didn't make a league championship as a college player
Career post season: 4TD and 4 INT in 3 games

Baker College Championship/Bowl games:
Texas Tech
Holiday Bowl - Win
No conference championship with Texas Tech
Oklahoma
COLLEGE PLAYOFFS 1st round - Lost
Sugar Bowl - Win
COLLEGE PLAYOFFS 1st round - Lost
2015 Big 12 Champions
2016 Big 12 Champions
2017 Big 12 Champions
Career post seasons: 9TD and 3INT in 5 games

Pro
First Game Lamar: 1 for 4 25% comp. OTD, OINT.. First game with real playing time: 150 yards, 0TD, 1INT
First Game Baker: Came into a game that the Browns were down 14-0, 17/23 73.91 % comp. 201 yards, Browns came back to win 21-17

Career Post season:
Lamar: 1-3, 55.88 Comp %, 3 TD / 5 INT
Baker: 1-1, 61.97 Comp %, 4 TD / 1 INT

When it counts, Baker is the better QB...

 

Now this is an interesting take. We're now looking at highschool and college TEAM wins to determine which QB is a better NFL passer. Won't speak for their highschool performances (wow.....highschool) but I do wonder about those college TEAM wins. How many of those Oaklahoma players from 2015-2017 are currently in the NFL?

Round, pick # in that round, pick overall, player, and position
2016 draft
2 9 40 Sterling Shepard New York Giants WR —
4 3 101 Charles Tapper Dallas Cowboys DE —
5 2 141 Zack Sanchez Carolina Panthers DB —
6 8 183 Devante Bond Tampa Bay Buccaneers LB —
2017 draft
2 16 48 Joe Mixon Cincinnati Bengals RB —
4 3 110 Dede Westbrook Jacksonville Jaguars WR —
4 7 114 Samaje Perine Washington Redskins RB —
6 9 193 Jordan Evans Cincinnati Bengals LB —
2018 draft
1 1 1 Baker Mayfield Cleveland Browns QB —
3 19 83 Orlando Brown Baltimore Ravens T —
3 22 86 Mark Andrews Baltimore Ravens TE —
5 23 160 Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Los Angeles Rams DE —
2019 draft
1 1 1 Kyler Murray Arizona Cardinals QB —
1 25 25 Marquise Brown Baltimore Ravens WR —
2 6 38 Cody Ford Buffalo Bills T —
3 33 97 Bobby Evans Los Angeles Rams T —
4 12 114 Dru Samia Minnesota Vikings G —
4 21 123 Ben Powers Baltimore Ravens G —
5 32 170 Austin Seibert Cleveland Browns K —
6 38 211 Rodney Anderson Cincinnati Bengals RB —
2019 draft
1 17 17 CeeDee Lamb Dallas Cowboys WR —
1 23 23 Kenneth Murray Los Angeles Chargers LB —
2 21 53 Jalen Hurts Philadelphia Eagles QB —
3 18 82 Neville Gallimore Dallas Cowboys DT —

lol man, this is your angle? That's 12 offensive players that went in the first 4 rounds who played with Baker. Even Baker's backup at QB went first overall thanks to a stacked team. His backup's backup ended up going in the 2nd round. For disclaimer purposes, I went from Baker's first year playing at Oaklahoma to the last time someone he played with was drafted (CeeDee Lamb was a key contributor to that 2017 team). I wonder how Louisville looks in comparison........

2016 draft
1 12 12 Sheldon Rankins New Orleans Saints DL
7 12 230 Josh Harvey-Clemons Washington Redskins DB
2017 draft
6 29 213 Colin Holba Pittsburgh Steelers LS
2018 draft
1 18 18 Jaire Alexander Green Bay Packers DB
1 32 32 Lamar Jackson Baltimore Ravens QB
3 10 74 Geron Christian Washington Redskins T
6 31 205 Trevon Young Los Angeles Rams DE
2020 draft
1 11 11 Mekhi Becton New York Jets T

LMAO Oaklahoma matched this total in just 2019. Louisville didn't even have a single player drafted in 2019. Out of these 8 players, 1 is Lamar himself, two are tackles, and the only other offensive player was a long snapper. I wonder if this has anything to do with "Baker winning college championships". Lamar got drafted an Louisville fell off the map. Baker got drafted and Kyler led Oaklahoma right back to a big 12 championship. Then Kyler got drafted and Jalen lead them to a championship. Literally 3 different QBs in 3 different years led them to 3 different championships, each winning 12 games.

Now if you want to talk NFL, yeah, Baker has less playoff loses. But that happens when you make the playoffs less. Still, I don't get how team wins (while ignoring stacked teams) determine a better passer. Mark Sanchez was 4-2 in the playoffs his first two seasons in the NFL, so I guess he was a pretty good QB when it mattered (using this logic). Lamar and Baker might reach his level one day

 

I think we can ALL agree - SAS is a homer moron, and any time he talks football he makes an absolute ass of himself.

 

Just goes to show how silly cherry picking things can make a one sided argument, doesn’t it?

 

Hmmm. So you consider judging which NFL QB is a better passer by using career NFL completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, INT %, QBR, and PASSER rating to be cherry picking .

I'm curious then. What criteria have you used in the past? If you go through my history on QB debates, you'll see me always using these numbers, I'm consistent. I'm curious as to what you have used in the past and why you aren't using it now? I'm betting you've used criteria that isn't favorable to Baker now

Actually, that's a serious question. What criteria have you used in the past to determine which QB was a better passer than another (we've all ranked them before) and do you use that same criteria each time or does it change if it's not favorable to a QB you prefer?