Lawsuits & Legal Matters

oops my bad, matty's link. sorry, notbob

 

fixt

 

a helmet can help against concussions. certain helmets are better at reducing head acceleration than others. dismissing helmets is a mistake. the ratings for the Virgina Tech STAR evaluation system are abominable for hockey. no 5-stars, no 4-stars, 1 3-star, 6 2-stars, 16 1-star, and 9 not recommended to be worn at all.

the shoulder pads, elbow pads is something we've been on board w/ together for a while lulz. its so simple and easy too.
call the cheap high stuff at the NHL level and the trickle down will help everyone. the game has changed at every level since the 2005 lockout.

 

sorry, didn't mean to dismiss them. that was not a recommendation for the league to rescind the rule

 

This is recent enough that I expect that 21 or more, (the number of teams in the 1980's), expert witnesses can be found to testify on behalf of the players. I expect that most if not all teams were warned of the health risks. The problem was a lack of proof and societal standards in sports was to do nothing that appeared to be soft. I expect numerous witnesses that can date & document their warning.

 

DAn, How many of those teams will be able to document that the player said he was ok to play too? That's one of my pet peves. These players try to be maucho and say they are ok, But when there careers end and they realize they blew all the money they made and have to try to make a living at something else, They come crying and saying they teams or league did me wrong. Well, I can tell you not one soldier expects to be shot when they join the military,especially not in the states, But it happened and that is the price of the uniform. I'm retired so I can say that. I hated what happened and I blame our leadership, But I'd be upset if the families sued because certain jobs comes with risk, and yes sports do come with risk.

Next we will have lawsuits when players get knee replacements saying they league didn't tell them it could mess their knees up for life and the league should pay them millions

 

If we have already reached the point were we can state our final position on this then there are two people that you'll have to agree to disagree with. Frankly, I think the personal accountability argument is greatly overstated. We place trust in others all the time to guide us in matters; that's what keeps financial planners, attorneys, doctors and therapists in business. In this case the players had every reason to trust what they were told. That after a few decades that proved to be an error is not enough to shift blame on them.

In fact, I wish to move away from the blame game. It happened, and most everyone was content with the system at the time. What will be done to reduce the risks going forward? That is the issue in my eyes.

If a player who made $millions from those who made many multiples can demonstrate chronic health problems that can be attributed to the activity, and if their is plausible evidence that the owners were aware of the risks, then there is a strong basis for the suit. If the owners acted malevolently, or not, is not particularly germane. If the owners had foreknowledge, or not, of the severity of the health risk also is not critical.

It is my opinion that owners were aware of the risks well before this became common knowledge. That's playing games with people's lives.

 

Mickey, having a player say he's ready to go is not even remotely close to rising to the same level of culpability. The player relies on perceptions formed through peer pressure and societal standards. In fact, most players are tough guys and it's why they play and others watch.
The warnings came from people using scientific data. It is true that at that point this could not be called established fact, but their plausibly is why it is a tragedy that they were ignored.

I am all for personal accountability, but I do not want to remove trust from the equation. Trust is the underpinning of a healthy society. These players had valid reasons for trusting their team's coaches as well as their physical & medical trainers.

 

Your right Dan we will agree to disagree. Why not blame the person who gave you the concussion to begin with? You know why you don't do that? It's because he doesn't have the money to pay you for what he did. Did that owner give you a concussion? no but what your saying it and if these sports start losing these lawsuits then I expect sports to die.

What you're saying is the owner committed a criminal act and should be in jail for his actions. And That is hard for me to understand.

 

i wonder - does this mean the players will be demanding an end to fighting? it doesn't take a neurologist to understand being punched in the head is not good for the health of your brain. nicholls was no goon, but he still fought 27 times at the NHL level, not counting pre-season.

 

I'm not buying your argument, but I am also not at the point of claiming this issue settled. (That is what's implied when two agree to disagree; it's either that or the issue is too ponderous and can never be settled. I'm not there yet, either.). I will agree that giving this discussion a little rest may be in order.

If this suit ever reaches the courts it will be adjudicated based on the facts and on the law. The facts the plaintiffs must present are: did the owners have knowledge of the risk?, when?, and how did they respond?

What motivated them to react how they did may be a moral issue for them but is beyond the purview of the law. It is also, from a legal position, irrelevant to question the reasons for players' reactions.

 

Your right Dan it needs to rest, However, If I do intentionally, that causes you harm, then I have committed a criminal act have I not. And If I have committed a criminal act then I can go to jail. And that is what these players are saying these owners need to go to jail, because I got hurt playing a sport in their league. IMO.

 

eff lawyers and eff golfers. bring back bob probert.

 

This will kill sports as a whole, robots will be the only solution in 35 years with engineers being the stars, almost like auto racing now. I know, sounds crazy now, not in 2050. Of course, we wont be around, but who knows if they could keep us alive until 140 soon.

 

I want to make it very clear that I respect your views, Mickey, you've made great contributions to this discussion. (BTW, Will expressed uncertainty if he should start this discussion at the beginning. Six pages in one day has got to close to a record and validates his decision.) That we do not agree does not disparage either of us.

I will add that culpability is not a black & white criminal matter. If this case reaches the courts, it will be in civil court, not criminal. That is one reason why the owners' motives are not pertinent- although their motives are perfectly acceptable matters in the court of public opinion.

No one will, or should, go to jail over this. If I ever implied that then I am sorry. I will say that I do expect a financial settlement- eventually. That's done all the time in business because mitigating factors* are often more valuable than money.

* As an example, the owners may value public opinion more than $millions, especially if public opinion could turn so negative that fans stopped buying tickets, and if youth turned to other sports.

Lastly, to skinny's comment: I have a more sanguine view. Just as medical knowledge of brain injuries have grown greatly over the past decade, so has the science of reducing it grown. I think our grandchildren and their grandchildren will be playing football and hockey.

 

Dan I too respect your views, We just differ. However, all is good and i threw the criminal act out there for something to think about. After all if someone causes someone else harm... just to show how wrong this could end up. No harm and I'll let this thing die down on my part. Take care and I'll see you on other post.

 

It's all good, Mickey. Thanks. I hope we'll have a few more rounds on this board. What I meant by "giving it a rest" was more along the lines of "let's sleep on it", not the discussion is over.

 

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71vqGyWTs3c[/video]

 

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njq2hFbw14[/video]

Another 35 years, the possibilities?

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/robot-passed-self-awareness-test-113733911.html#nVwyrCq