Jonathan Allen, the true Best Player in the 2017 NFL Draft

Probably better suited on a different thread, but what do you think is the likelihood that going QB is inevitable?

The wrinkle in it - for me - is Cody Kessler. I don't know why they would go out of their way to draft him (ahead of most projections) and then assign that pick to the head coach, implying that he was hand-picked ("trust me"). Then, the same quarterback - who's playing well in a game - is inexplicably benched for a veteran who proceeds to turn the ball over three or four times.

Has Hue already given up on him? If so, then I think QB is inevitable. If that was just another in a long string of confusing and inexcusable moves made during a lost season, then perhaps he'll get one more season to prove himself and they can load up the talent around him.

Personally, I hope it was just a bad choice made in the heat of a game... for a number of reasons. One, I do happen to like Cody Kessler. Second, it paints the organization as fraudulent and inept. Plenty of folks knew Kessler's limitations (primarily, arm strength), yet the Browns still drafted him in the third round then benched him for that same flaw (he wasn't taking enough shots downfield).

That's not a good look.

 

I think Hue was looking to get his signature win and felt a rookie, not Cody Kessler, was more prone to mistakes to cost them the victory than a veteran was...He was wrong.

Remember, Hue never wanted Cody to play a down his rookie season, it was born out of necessity and the youngster did a little more than just float in the deep end.

 

Pretty damning, if you ask me. He knee-jerked and pulled a guy who was not the problem and inserted someone who wasn't even fully-healed from a broken bone.

If he's going to panic in game situations, that doesn't bode well for the development of our team.

 

I saw his stats after the game and I really have no idea where he had a sack and 7 tackles...I didnt seen him dominate or make an impact the whole game...I will re-watch again on draft breakdown when its available

 

There was this play. Oops.

Play-by-play doesn't track tackles by on ESPN, but it looks like they credited him with two assist sacks. One 13:04 in the first, and again at 12:14 in the fourth.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/playbyplay?gameId=400876570

 

In all fairness, Irish, I was surprised to see those numbers also. I really didn't see him perform at that level. Obviously, I didn't chart his game, but I really didn't see him do much of anything.

 

Their 2 most impressive defensive players were Anderson and Foster...those guys stood out immensely

 

Still early in the eval process, but for me, Jon Allen isn't in my Top 3:

1. Myles Garrett

(** insert huge drop off **)

2. Malik Hooker
3. Solomon Thomas

 

How do u think Garrett compares w Clowney??

 

Better in almost every way. It will be interesting to see what he (Garrett) weighs in at the Combine. He's listed as 6'6" and 270 but looks significantly bigger than Clowney (6'5" 260) from just an overall frame standpoint.

Both excel at quickness off the snap and it's easily their best features. Clowney does have a faster burst off the line than Garrett, but again, Garrett looks bigger and holds up better against the run than Clowney.

Versatility. Clowney (at least at South Carolina) played almost exclusively as RDE in a four-man front, whereas Garrett has been moved all around the A&M defense, much like Von Miller was used, in a two-point, three-point, and interior (rare) lineman.

Lastly, I can only go off what I see and read and by all accounts, Garrett is a much harder worker and much more focused on being the best version of himself as possible. Clowney appeared to loaf his junior year whereas Garrett made it very clear he would play in his bowl game, even with other high-profile prospects sitting out of theirs. His coaches (no one trusts Steve Spurrier and what he says) all rave about his work ethic and football IQ, so that's easily a positive for him over Clowney as well.

 

Gotcha...I just see Clowney coming into his own and wreaking havoc over the next 8-10 yrs...him and Watt are scary good

 

Alabama chart
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Run up middle
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Run right
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Run right
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Run up middle
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Run up middle
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 QB Run up middle
ROLB 3-4 Cut block by LT, no pressure
ROLB 3-4 Handled by LT 1 on 1 QB sacked by teammates
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Run middle
RDE 4-3 1:17 mark Handled by LT 1 on 1, 2nd and 1, run right at him for 17 yard first down
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Screen pass right
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1 Run up middle
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1, pass left
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1, run right
RDE 4-3 2:00 Handled by LT 1 on 1, he got the furthest into backfield that he had all day to this point, no pressure, pass right
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1, run between LG/C gap
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT 1 on 1, run right at him for 6 yard gain
RDE 3-4 2:27 blocked 1 on 1 by LT as ROLB dropped into coverage, no pressure, didn?t even break line of scrimmage, pass right
RDE 4-3 Blocked 1 on 1 by RB, QB rolled left, right towards him, didn?t get any pressure, pass left
End of 1st QTR

RDE 4-3 Handled by LT, run right
ROLB 3-4 3:00, dropped into middle run support instead of watching his edge, worked to his advantage as the RB actually ended up running right where he was standing, he should have been 1st or 2nd guy in on the tackle, but is actually the 5th guy to touch him, everyone else falls off, so he gets credit for his first tackle of the game. This is a classic example of what I have said, he is not nearly aggressive enough when the call isn?t for him. All the talent in the world, wasted. Took 21st play of the game for the first impact of the game..
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT, run middle/right
RDE 3-4 3:19 Blocked by the LG, bull rushed the guard(who was positioned inside) QB ran right by him for 10 yard gain.
RDE 4-3 Run right, Garrett took 3 steps to the left and just stopped to watch the play, had the RB broke the tackle, he would have scored with Garrett standing 3 yards away.
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT, pass right TD
RDE 4-3 3:47 Actually beat the LT inside on run play up the middle, but pulled up as the RB ran by him..plotting these plays is actually making me wonder why I have him rated as high as I did in the past?I actually rewatched this and saw the RB chucked him, didn?t see it live, but as soon as he put a hand on him, he just stopped.
RDE 4-3 First, semi double team of the game, LT kinda missed and the RB helped out on the run to the right, not in the play either way
RDE 4-3 cut blocked on a run play to the left, went down to the ground hard and fast
RDE 4-3 4:11 haha, here is his ?highlight? play, tackle for loss when the entire Alabama team forgot to block him. Literally, everyone went the opposite way and he had a free shot to the RB.
RDE 4-3 Handled buy LT, pass play, no pressure
RDE 4-3 4:45?OK YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS ONE?Left unblocked, he runs into the back field and simply stops?could have taken the handoff, but chooses to stop and watch the play for a 5 yard gain up the middle.
RDE 4-3 His best play thus far of the game, and why he is ranked as high as he is. Fights trough a block, pushing into the backfield to help with a no gain tackle of the RB up the middle to his side.
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT, pass with no pressure
RDE 3-4 Impressive, double team, he pushes them back into the pocket, no pressure, but he caused the pocket to collapse.
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT, pass with no pressure
RDE 4-3 Shed the LT, picked up by LG, didn?t make the tackle but pushed the run play back inside for his teammates to make the play for loss.
RDE 4-3 Run play right, again?no one blocked him, so he simply stood up and watched the play, didn?t attempt to engage..
ROLB 3-4 Handled by LT, pass play, no pressure
RDE 4-3 Handled by TE, watched the play once again
RDE 4-3, got a pretty good rush on the LT, but no QB pressure..this is what I expect his bad plays to look like, but it is actually what is impressing me..not what a #1 overall looks like.
RDE 4-3 Another nice move inside on the RG, but didn?t get QB pressure
RDE 4-3 Handled by LT, pass play, no pressure
RDE 3-4 ?prevent? last play of half, no pressure on hail mary
End 2nd Qtr?6:50 of film

I?ll try to get back to this after my nieces basketball game tonight. So far?just isn?t what stands out as a #1 overall pick against one of the best teams in college, and what he will be facing weekly in the NFL. If anything, I am more enamored with Cam Robinson after watching this game film.

But as for playing him all over the field?

He only lined up for 6 plays outside of his normal 4-3 base RDE in the first half?and didn?t do much when he did.

 

I culd see Cam Robinson landing in Cincy....Whitworth is up there in age and they can use an anchor at LT just like Balt did w Stanley

 

I assume you didn't play linebacker or d-end at any point? If you're unblocked off the line, the first thing you're taught is to look for: counter, reverse, boot... never give up the edge. Smart play.

No pressure? He's blocked by two separate Tide players with another one watching him. Sorry A&M didn't bring the house on a prevent play? They only rushed three and had one spy.

Now, go back and re-read your splits.

In the first quarter, two of the 14 run/screen plays were at him (14%).
In the second quarter, three of the 13 runs were at him (23%), one of which he disrupted the running lane leading to a tackle for three yard loss. Two of the runs away from him led to a tackle for no gain and a tackle for loss.

In the first half, they only ran five (18.5%) of the plays his direction.

I would happily draft a guy who opposing offenses decided it wasn't worth running or throwing short at 81.5 percent of the time.

 

First play of the third quarter:



Fights through a double-team, collapses the pocket pressuring the QB outside and forces a sack by his teammates.

On the goalline:



Plays like this are why he's the top-rated player on everyone else's board. That quickness off the snap to force the play (run at him) backwards on the field.

He's just too fast:



And those times you question his effort, this is at 0:57 left in a game that they are clearly going to lose.



I just don't know what to say... he's the best prospect in this class but no amount of debate or film is going to change your mind. That's fine.

Is he a prefect prospect? No. Of course not. Alabama is a great team with good coaches and some of the times they tried to use Garrett's quickness against him it worked out brilliantly. I don't think there's a Edge prospect anywhere that makes a stop 100% of the time.

The goal should be to find the best overall player and put him in the best overall situation to win.

 

I know EXACTLY what his responsibilities are...He was in position to protect the edge AND make a play behind the line of scrimmage, he chose to do only part of his job. Make all the excuses you want, he wasn't even blocked, he had a front row seat to the handoff and didn't do anything. He took the play off...plain and simple.

 

Ok, so now I understand what your issue is...you don't understand what a double team is...It actually means two men are engaged in the block on one player...In this clip that you thankfully provided, he was not double teamed, he was blocked one on one by the guard of all people, who handled him quite well...Did HE force that sack, or was it the fact that Hurts held onto the ball for 5 seconds? Go ahead, count how long he has the ball...I'll wait...

I've said all along that he has the abilities...It isn't that he can't get up for 3-5 plays a game, it's the plays he DOESN'T participate in that has me worried.

We will agree on his abilities and disagree that he is the best overall player in this draft...let alone what you have called him in the past, "a once in a decade prospect". I simply don't see it.

In fact, after watching film, not only have I moved Allen ahead of him, I have also moved Malik Hooker ahead of him. I am starting my safety evals and he was the first...Adams will be next. It is really hard to believe Hooker is a red shirt Sophomore that has only been starting 19 games..I think the sky is the limit for that young man. I am anxious to see how he compares to Adams, honestly it will be hard to imagine Adams being better on film..if he is, we need to start talking about Adams as a #1 overall prospect.


I'm not expecting ANY player to make stops 100% of the time, it's only the plays that they seem to be in position to make a play and don't even attempt it that really bothers me..

I agree, best player, put in the best position to succeed, in fact, I couldn't agree more!

 

Is it time to change the thread's name to "Jamal Adams, the true Best Player in the 2017 NFL Draft"?

Contact a mod!

 

Nope, after watching multiple games, I definitely have Hooker as the best safety in this draft...

Although, they have very different skillsets. Hooker excels at FS and Adams played much more SS, than free..

If I'm being honest, I actually moved Jabrill Peppers ahead of Adams, they are both SS in the NFL, imho.

Overall impact, I see Hooker having a higher impact on a team...

And no, I didn't move Hooker ahead of Allen.


In the infant stages so far for evaluation, but I currently have my list like this:

Jonathan Allen
Malik Hooker
Myles Garrett
Corey Davis
Jabrill Peppers
Jamal Adams
Mike Williams
Cam Robinson
DeMarcus Walker

That's about all I have done with multiple games studied thus far...I've looked at all the QB film, but haven't really dove I to their evals yet, so I'll wait to add them to the list later on.

 

Losing faith real fast Irish lol....how can u have Peppers over Cook or him not even make that list....he will make a splash like M. Faulk or Chris Johnson did as a rookie...he is a true game breaker