Hue Jackson - Should I Stay Or Should I Go Now Thread

They also would be at the TOP of the Coaching Experience list...

Dallas - Garrett 8th year as Cowboys HC, currently in 3rd in their division, behind another man on this list and the reigning SB champs
Minnesota - Zimmer 5th year as Vikings HC, currently in 1st in their division
Houston - O'Brien 5th year as Texans HC, currently in 1st in their division
Seattle - Carroll 9th year as Seahawks HC, currently in 2nd in their division
Cincinnati - Lewis 16th year as Bengals HC, currently in 2nd in their division

Teams with same or more HC experience:
Saints - Payton adds to that record above, currently in 1st in their division
Ravens - Harbaugh adds to that record above, currently in 2nd in their division
Panthers Rivera adds to that record above, currently in 2nd in their division
Packers McCarthy adds to that record above, currently in 2nd in their division
Chiefs Reid adds to that record above, currently in 1st in their division
Patriots Belichick adds to that record above, currently in 1st in their division
Steelers Tomlin adds to that record above, currently in 1st in their division
Redskins Gruden adds to that record above, currently in 1st in their division

Ironically, 3 of the 12 teams above are in the AFC North, the one team from the division that isn't...The Browns, whom everyone is calling for the head of the HC once again.

So, 12 of the 13 highest tenured coaches are in either 1st or 2nd place in their division at nearly the half way point of the season...I think that is also telling, don't you all?

Many coaches only get about 2 years before they are jettisoned...Hue is only in his 3rd year and already improved from a .031 winning percentage in his first two years to a .357 winning percentage. That number could easily continue to rise...We shall see.. To go with @Lyman a QB plays a great deal in the longevity of a coaches career. Without a competent QB, most coaches don't last very long in this league. This is the first year in Hue's HC career he might have a legitimate competent NFL quality QB. I think we should at least let the year play out before tying the noose.

 

To further your earlier point . . . Sean McVay has only been a Head Coach for about a year and a half - and - he has one of the least experienced rosters in the NFL. Prior to his arrival, the Rams drafted pretty well. The Browns? Not so much. The man truely is a savant and, scary as this sounds, the Rams are only going to get better.

 

If you want to expand the above to include the TOP half of coaching tenure:
Falcons - Quinn 4 years, in last place, but a 3-4 record, only 1 game out of second place
Jets - Bowles 4 years, 3rd place, one game out of second

Then you get to the 3 year mark which includes our own:
Hue is in last place, 1.5 out of second, 2 out of 1st
Jaguars - Marrone, 2nd in their division
Dolphins - Gase, 2nd in their division
Eagles - Pederson, 2nd in their division
Buccaneers - Koetter, 3rd in their division, 1 game out of 2nd and 2 games out of 1st

That leaves the majority of least tenured coaches to fill out the 3rd and 4th spots of each division

Bottom Dwellers:
AFC East - Bills, McDermott in his second year
AFC North - Duh...the 3 coaches in front of Hue are 3 of the longest tenured
AFC West - Raiders, Gruden in his first year
AFC South - Colts, Reich in his first year

NFC East - Giants, Shurmur in his first year
NFC North - Bears, Nagy in his first year
NFC West - 49ers, Shanahan in his second year
NFC South - Falcons, Quinn in his 4th year, but again he is only 1 game out of 2nd place, this is as close a division as the AFC North is

 

Now, it goes without saying that OBVIOUSLY the newest coaches come from the teams that suck the most, otherwise they wouldn't be new coaches...

But the top tier tenured guys also show the tendency to be on top. I think it does show something for longevity. The Browns have been the bottom dwellers for the past two decades...But right now, since Hue is in his 3rd year, they are at the very least competing for the division(let's not forget, given division games, the Browns are the only undefeated team in division games in the AFC North. With a win this week, we could be back to within a game of the division lead). Given time, keeping the coaching staff in place, they could very well find themselves in the rotation at the top in a yearly fashion.

What we have proven in the past...a coaching carousel KEEPS us at the bottom, leaving the other 3 teams to compete with one anther for the top spot.

 

BUT...he also had his QB of the future already on the roster(as you eluded to) the year before he arrived, and got his franchise RB his first year there. Do you think he would have been this successful with DeShone Kizer as his best QB on the roster? That's what Hue has dealt with in his second year as the Browns HC...no comparison

Food for thought....

 

Thanks everybody for the interesting and civil discussions we have going on in here.

 

The thing about that is, Hue thought he was gonna win with Kizer.... If you remember after our 2017 championship preseason, Hue was saying that Kizer was ready. He had excelled at a faster rate than expected, and we were gonna "change the culture" with Deshone leading the way. It was only AFTER his first 3 games or so, that even Hue knew he was in trouble, and it was pretty obvious we were not going to win jack squat with Kizer. And soon we realized, we weren't going to win with any of the other QB's on our roster either..... So Hue changed his tune, and there was the panic move for AJ McCarron (that shouldn't be forgotten), and it was a full blown nightmare all season....

I'm not saying that we were thinking championship, but most Browns fans felt 4 or 5 W's was certainly within reason last year....You know, until we got to October.

 

Hue has said all kinds of things in the public to put on a positive vibe...He also said something a little more truthful, He said he didn't want to have an offensive coordinator until the roster was ready to compete...

All that is beside the point...

Do you believe that McVay would have made the difference in Kizer's career and had they taken him in McVay's first year (no Goff), we would be looking at Mcvay in the same light and Kizer would be on his way to future stardom?

I'm just playing to @Lyman and his point that a QB does help a HC succeed...

 

That may have been our (collective) expectation (4 to 5 wins). But I suspect that the people who came up with the 5 year plan didn't think that way. I suspect they knew full well it would take more, much more, to become successful.

 

I agree that Sashi probably knew 5 was a stretch, but Hue was ready to welcome people onto our bandwagon after the preseason...

 

Well you don't have to sell me on that...That is a fact. QB and coach is a marriage...

 

What did you expect him to say? "Ease up, guys. We're going to suck some more"?

That would have really helped to change the culture and/or entice potential free agents to come to Cleveland.

 

No. I think Kizer is one of the worst of all time...Total bust. I still can't believe we got Randall out of that deal. Thank you Mr. Dorsey.

 

Does it really matter wtf I say? I'm not getting sucked back into this...Regardless of what I say, I'm sure you'll have an opposite viewpoint. Lets just leave it at that... You know where I stand on Hue....

 

I'd hate for things to get uncivilized...

 

Yes! It does matter what you say. How else are we supposed to have a meaningful discussion on this or any other topic if only one side of the discussion is sharing why they think the way they do? For the record, I happen to agree with a lot of what you share on here.

 

lol. Yeah, that'd suck.

 

I appreciate that...

It's been a helluva few days for me, and I'll spare ya the details, but I should really refrain from posting anything when I'm angry....

Surely this will come as a surprise to everyone, but yeah believe it or not, I have some anger issues at times....And I know that you guys know, I don't have much of a filter. I'm very confident (to a fault at times) in my football knowledge, but obviously I'm less skilled at getting my point across. Sarcastic by nature, but always wearing my heart on my sleeve, I sometimes forget that not everybody knows that, and it tends to get me in trouble..Anyway, that's my ultra-short story, and I'm sticking to it.

Just know this. I love talking football. I could talk it 24/7 365...And this is the place, and you guys are all the ones I like talking to....

So again, sorry for getting upset. FTR: It was the "civilized" remark that set me off (in case that wasn't obvious. lol). I took it as a direct shot at me. Which it was....but I'm over it now.

GO BROWNS!!!

 

This exchange is a really good read. Searching for “a formula”, direct comparisons, it has everything. Thanks fellas.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-haley-dysfunction-could-be-coming-to-a-head/