How will management fuck this up?

Again, who are these "most of the candidates?" Because you're not wrong, but the only guys based on the rules you clarified that's scheduled to be interviewed is Todd Monken and Joe Brady. That's 2/4 playoff coaches, the two others the Bears have interviewed being Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn.

I too like Todd Monken. A lot. I don't think Ben Johnson is going to happen here, but I like him too. I don't think you can go wrong with either of these two. I have no idea why they're trying to talk to the Notre Dame HC nor why would he want to talk with the bears, but compared to some other names on the list I'm intrigued by him.

What bothered me with McCarthy is the bears flew him private to Palwaukee (north burbs fancy airport rich people/executives fly into), hosted him, took him to dinner, and he stuck around a day or two. McCarthy's situation is different from many others who did their first interview on zoom, but...hard to not imply something further by this visit alone.

I'm hoping this is some Ryan Pace having a steak dinner with Patrick Mahomes style misdirection. Though I don't think Poles is smarter than Pace, and Pace was an idiot.

I'm trying to be objective and I just can't. I know Erin Rodgers is a super-douche, but its engrained in my mind at the end of McCarthy's time in Green Bay when Erin was telling literally everyone when MM would call a play, he would intentionally change it in the huddle because "McCarthy doesn't know what he's doing." Even in games/turmoil his last season, seeing Erin so dismissive of him on the sidelines in a game...incredibly telling. And I'm not trying to be a hater, but based on watching this team get its ass handed to them (among many others), I lean far more towards Erin was always going to be a great QB/the problem he always has been, not "Mike McCarthy molded one of the best of all time."

Fast-forward to Dallas. Time for him to prove me wrong and take a middling guy to the next level. Except.....he never elevated Dak. He had a top offense one year and went out with a wimper in the 1st round of the playoffs, which makes no sense as 1 year they had the defensive unit to win a superbowl, especially with their front 4. Dak was a bumslayer who couldn't hang with big boy defenses. I think too much of this fanbase is idiotic, depraved, and has convinced themselves a couple of 9-8/10-7 seasons with a WC round exit in the playoffs is enough, not a fucking superbowl.

The John Fox comparison is almost spot on. But...I can point to one positive from the John Fox days, Fox brought Vic Fangio with him. McCarthy is going to bring Mike Zimmer with him to call defenses.

 

Flores, Smith, Kingsbury, Joseph, Shaw, Stenavich. All on the “list” that can now be interviewed according to the rules.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. Fox was the "established" guy to restore "culture" - nevermind that the entire reason they loved Everlose so much was his "culture" and "HITS principal" right up until the team absolutely gave up on him. It's the same cycle all over again. People were saying that McCarthy is "just like Reid or Arians" and man I just don't see it.

If I were to answer the question in the title of this thread: "How will management fuck this up?" the answer would be Mike McCarthy. In fact, by nature of it being the Bears, whatever they pick, even if I agree with it, I would have to wonder if maybe I'm wrong, just because it's the choice they made.

This is my recollection too, those sour days at the end of Green Bay, where he was fired, and then goes to Dallas who has underperformed every year, including shitting the bed against his former team in the playoffs last year. But his "record" is so good!

 

I really am not understanding the disrespect for McCarthy. Granted I would rather have Johnson or Brady. Probably Monkin. But I would take McCarthy over Flores/Kingsbury/Rivera/Carrol.

Rivera and Carrol would be Fox like hires. Not McCarthy. McCarthy is not a cheerleader and he brings an area of expertise on the offensive side of the ball that is on par with few. He took over the Packers in Aaron’s second season before he was the starter. Your giving him zero credit for how he turned out? Really. Be cause the Cuntiest player in the history of football checked out in the end. I am sure that was totally because McCarthy was a moron and not because Aaron was a nut job.

It’s easy to not like McCarthy. He was the Packers coach for 12 fucking years most of which he kicked our ass. We are trained to hate him but don’t let that blind you. Dak went from good QB to MVP candidate playing under McCarthy. The guys teams have been in the playoffs 12 out of 18 years with most misses due to QB injury. You want to knock him for going one and done 3 years in a row with the cowboys? Fine but you better be ready to knock everyone else not name Ried or Belichick.

The Bears will probably not hire McCarthy. He isn’t a change the culture kind of guy he is a win football games kind of guy. He is established and will be expensive. Not your typical Bears hire. If what the rumors say are true and the Bears job is becoming a 2 horse race between McCarthy and Johnson Inwould be happy because the Bears would be hiring outside of their comfort zone.

 

I'm kind of in between Rob and Ev. Hiring McCarthy would be bad for the reasons Ev stated, he's basically Fox. Not going to move the needle at all, not going to establish a culture, not going to win over the lockerroom. Will look like a fat idiot on the sidelines. Hiring him would be an uninspired, visionless move that again signals this franchise doesn't fucking get it.

On the other hand, the more I think about it and looking at the evidence (and I'm not trying to talk myself or anyone into him), he's certainly an upgrade over Flus and we could do worse with other candidates. Pat says he never elevated Dak, I disagree. I think Dak has played at his ceiling with McCarthy. He actually got something out of Cooper Rush after Dak went down when the Cowboys could very easily have quit. The fact that Erin forced him out of GB means nothing to me because Erin is an unaccountable diva of the highest order.

 

Yeah totally with Pat on this, i guess a lot of it re McCarthy comes down to how much credit you want to give him for the QB's and my opinion is very little credit.

From the first day he set foot in GB to the last McCarthy had a HOF QB. Rodgers is the biggest prick on the planet, but he was always gonna be a success in this league. Any notion that Mike McCarthy was the difference between a bust in Canton and some middling career for Rodgers is just laughable to me. With Dak, lets be clear, he'd been in the league like 4-5years before McCarthy was hired. He'd been to not one but two Pro Bowls AND won OROY i believe before Chunk* even got there! But we're gonna give Mike McCarthy the credit for Dak Presoctt's achievements? Hell no. Why arent we giving the credit to The Carrot anyway? Seriously. He was there for Dak's formative years, he was there when Dak was earning those awards, he is the former NFL QB himself. There's at least as strong a case for that and imo its stronger.

The real crux of it for me tho is that imo Mike McCarthy is not an elevator. I mean he's big enough that several humans could fit inside him but i mean elevator in terms of elevating the play of those around him. He's never gone to a mess of an org or an underachieving roster and turned it around like a Sean Payton or a Harbaugh. He's gone to two very solid situations with good rosters, won a lot of regular season games and then under achieved a LOT in the playoffs. IF he had a GM like the one on Detroit i'd say he could do the same here, problem is he doesnt and he doesnt have the skills or the system to get more out of the sum of a team parts.

To one of Rob's specific points let me just say you are damned right, i dont like McCarthy for the exact reason you stated. I hate the idea of a god damn Packer leading this team, it should be immediately disqualifying imo unless you are of the calibre of a Harbaugh or Payton and McCarthy aint that, at all. But that doesnt mean i can't look at objectively what he's done in the league and make a pretty informed opinion. He's a bad hire whether you use the head or the heart.


* I reserve the right to use this nickname mercilessly when he's hired.

 

Monken might be my #2 choice for the job btw.

Thats a very low bar blang, depressingly so. Be better than The Gap buddy, be better than The Gap.

 

Dak won the same amount of playoff games under Jason Garrett in 4 years as he did McCarthy in 5 years. Only 1.

Dak also had plenty of success prior to MM, 2019 under Jason Garrett is his best statistical year, and that was when seasons were still 16 games—he was 98 passing yards shy of 5k, and he threw 30 TDs. He wan an MVP candidate, albeit in a stacked field compared to who the finalists were in 2023 when throwing 36 TDs in 17 games led the league. Lamar led 2019 with 36 passing TDs when he won the MVP.

His 2023 was terrific as well, and i can give McCarthy credit for that, but pretending Dak wasn’t in mvp discussions prior to MM’s arrival would be an error.

I can buy Blang’s assertion that he got Dak playing at his ceiling at times, but getting him to play at the same level he already had before IMO isn’t elevating Dak. Does he know how to develop a QB in 2025? I know he can in 2005 when defenses were bland.

Erin didn’t exactly fall off a cliff the second McCarthy left. In fact, he won back to back MVPs, and has 1 more MVP award in his career than Tom Brady. Yeah. I’m going to give credit to Erin for being one of the best of all time.

It also seems inconsistent to suggest that McCarthy molded Erin for success, yet only has 1 Super Bowl win to show for it. McCarthy squandered a lot of chances those years he was kicking the bears’ asses.

Two things can be true at the same time. Erin’s success is his own, and he’s—as you put it, the cuntiest player. Mike McCarthy is the king of short passes/5 and outs and quick slants in the 2000s version of the west coast offense. Erin was throwing bombs to torch teams.

For as cunty as he is, his WRs sure knew how to get open when a play broke down and he starts scrambling/escaping pass rushers and they were finished with their slant or short route. Erin has only told how many people who stick a mic in front of him it’s what he expects of his receivers. We only saw him do heartbreaking scramble drill bullshit how many times against this team?

 

Having anything other than a depressingly low bar is unrealistic with this ownership. Again I don't want McCarthy for all of the reasons stated but we could, and already have done, much worse. That's a fact.

Erin seems such a destructive personality I wonder if another coach would have won more with him, perhaps Belichick or Reid come to mind, but most otheres wouldn't. The Packers won their Super Bowl early in Erin's career (and let's face it due to Cutler shitting the bed in week 17 and the NFCCG hehe) before his ego skyrocketed. The better he got, the more playoff success eluded them. Sometimes they were punched in the mouth like by the Giants in 2011 or the 49ers in 2012. But that 2014 choke against the Seahawks is probably the defining moment of McCarthy's tenure and there's no doubt in my mind that he, not Erin, holds responsibility for it. The rest of McCarthy's tenure after that I thought they actually overachieved, often due to Erin's heroics, but always ran into a better team in the playoffs as their good defense from 2009-14 aged and regressed.

Anyway, I think my point is McCarthy does deserve credit for that Super Bowl. The Packers were well-prepared and executed on both sides of the ball during that playoff run in which they played every game on the road. Chances were squandered afterwards and McCarthy deserves blame. But yeah I don't think he's as bad as our instincts lead us to believe.

 

You’re taking this argument in a different direction. Nobody is claiming that without McCarthy, Rodgers or Prescott would have had middling careers. But there is no doubt that with him as HC playing in HIS offense both played at an MVP level. Isn’t that what we want for Caleb? A coach that will bring a QB friendly offense that also by the way believes in running the ball.

 

Dak got MVP votes twice. His rookie season and last year. In 19 they went 8-8. Dak might have had statistical success but not team. Are we now comparing McCarthy to Garret?

Would you say the same about Sean Payton/Drew Brees? They only won 1 Super Bowl. It’s not easy winning Superbowls. There are many great coaches that never win one. If you want to make this about playoff record you’re going to have to eliminate an awful lot of coaches off your list.

I really don’t know what your point is here. Are you trying to get me to believe that Erin, from the time he became starter, tossed McCarthy’s playbook out the window and went rouge? Erin was also amazing at the anticipation throw. Knowing where the WR would be and throw it before the break. He holds his WRs to being exact in their routs. Playing in structure as well as out of it. What about Dak? Did he also go rouge in McCarthy’s offense?

 

Im not saying he doesn’t deserve credit.

I hate McCarthy as a candidate not because he was a former Packer. I hate him because he’ll now be a 3rd time HC and he’s learned fuck all since his Super Bowl win.

You accurately describe his ups and downs. I believe when you review and analyze his ‘downs’ and where he went wrong—SF, NY, Seattle all ran new age defenses.

He had such success picking on the bears, stacked with the good ol’ 2000s talents, along with Minnesota running the same 4-3 Tampa 2, different variations and talents. His offense was designed to spread out lbs with speed. I like that he seeks that mismatch and tries to exploit it—something bears offensive playcallers never fucking understand.

Football evolves. I’m a broken record, but it’s true. Talents from HS change to college, and now new, exotic shit is frequenting many defensive schemes. When it started creeping into the nfl the late 2000s/esrly 2010s, smart play callers, including Vic Fangio used to their advantage. He especially knew it, coaching at Stanford and then SF before here.

McCarthy is a crook because he told everybody he learned from his GB mistakes and changed his playbook and modernized from ‘west coast’ to ‘Texas coast.’

He ran the same stuff. It works when Washington is running Chico Rivera’s 4-3. It worked against Joe Judges ‘cover who.’ But it doesn’t work against Philly’s hybrid. It didn’t work against playoff caliber teams. It’s not working against modernization, because the ‘exotic stuff that could never work in the mfl’ in 2008 is here in 2025. Multiple teams ran 3-2-6 and 3-3-5 sets, something that would be unheard of in 2008. It’s highly effective in college to match speed with speed, and it’s effective against teams trying to do it right now, like Miami and SF.

The same questions apply to him as they do to retreads. What are you going to do different? What have you learned? ‘Tread water’ isn’t an appropriate answer for a 61 year old coach on his 3rd team that’s supposed to have all this talent and offense but the wrong guys were in charge.

 

My point with Garrett was that Dak had played at a high level success before McCarthy. And to pretend that McCarthy is the only guy that got that level of play out of his is incorrect.

No, I’m saying at the end of McCarthy’s time in gb, the game had passed him by, and that’s when Erin started changing plays in the huddle, because Fangio would dial up plays where it looks like lazy cover who stuff he shredded by its random blitz and smothering man coverage.

I’ve never said nor implied his entire tenure in gb was tumultuous and he had no success nor deserves no flowers. Just at the end.

I’m not talking about the saints with Peyton and Brees. I’m talking about McCarthy and Erin rodgers. The saints had their problems, which were far more big money contracts to talented players on the shelf and not playing with injuries, not the QB and HC beefing. The saints were a completely different situation and have nothing to do with the discussion nor the peckers’ problems not why I think Erin made Erin and not McCarthy. Bad strawman.

 

Absolutely right.

I'm trying to keep perspective here that out of anybody we could have and considering who we have hired, we could do worse. Chico himself would be an even worse retread for the reason that he's still running a late 2000s defense in the 2020s and didn't actually win the Super Bowl.

 

Nobody who has watched the Dallas offense over the past 5 years would say that the game has passed McCarthy by. Except Dan Orlovsky. So if that is where the argument is going I’m bowing out. Let’s hope Ben Joh son is the choice and we can all rejoice.

 

On today’s episode of “Kevin and Ryan’s Rudderless Tard Boat” the wonder twins decide to make a trade offer for a coach! You think that’s crazy? Wait.. there’s more zaniness ahead on this special episode when they bring in their 23rd new candidate - former Heisman winner and pro bowler Eddie George! He’s 24-22 in the FCS, but who cares?! The compass is broken and there are no headings on Rudderless Tard Boat! Toot! Toot!

 

There is also no doubt that they played at that level when he wasn't there so what does that tell you about how important McCarthy was to their level. THATS the point. McCarthy isnt the reason for them. I wish he was cos it would give me something to hold onto re Caleb when they hire him. But he's not, he just happened to be there. Thats not who i want to develop our QB.

Im glad we're talking about Sean Payton cos he's hugely relevant to this. Since we're talking about the stop after winning a SB, look at the incredible job that guy has done in Denver. They were a 4win team when he took over there. They were a mess and they were buried under Russel Wilson's contract. 2024 was billed as a write off year there. All he did was turn them right around, make them a playoff team AND make Bo Nix look like a good QB! It seriously took like 3 weeks for Payton to develop Nix and get him playing well.

That is EXACTLY the stuff we want to see in Chicago. You're talking like Mike McCarthy did those kind of things when in fact he did none of them(look at the teams he inherited in GB & Dal). McCarthy isnt in the same league as Payton, please stop this nonsense.

 

I mean just saying, but the Broncos traded for Payton, they're pretty damn happy now. I dont know who the Bears made an offer to you didnt say(prob someone dumb) but it can work.

 

If there was any justice for us, Ben Johnson would be on a private jet to Chicago tomorrow and they wouldn't let him leave the facility until he was the new HC.

Also bigtime commiserations to the Loins on their playoff choke job lolololol.

 

if you want Ben Johnson, now’s the time.

Still though, LOLoins

They had the 11th overall defense in 2022. Micah Parsons was 1st team all pro at 2 positions, inside linebacker and edge/defensive end.

I’m not sure you’ve understood the argument. I think you made a reasonable point that McCarthy shouldn’t get hate for a plethora of reasons, including he was a packers former coach. That’s not why I hate him as a candidate.

So let’s keep this simple. What has Mike MacCarthy learned that he hasn’t applied in GB or Dallas that’s going to be different that will break the mold/ceiling of being just good enough to squeak into the playoffs just to lose—if he is the guy here?

Sell me. Because I’ve seen enough guys who can squeak into the playoffs just to lose with a roster containing just enough talent. Hell, we just saw Matt Nagy do it multiple times.