That’s the thing with 8. Roquan Smith is a nice ILB, but is he the 8th best player? No! That’s reaching. All the top guys will be gone, so get him later or a CB or McGlinchey and pick up picks. Value, value, value! At least we don’t need a safety! Eddie Jackson is Ed Reed 2.0.
I think if QBs are taken out of the equation, which I've quite confident Pace will not consider; Roquan Smith is the 3rd best player behind Chubb and Nelson. I have issues with Fitzpatrick and James, both safeties. Smith is just consistent and all around solid. And if his knock is his "height" at 6'1 for a 3-4 ILB, that's something I'm comfortable sacrificing because he's not Tremaine Edmunds at 6'5. I wonder if the people at NFL.com who think Smith is short thought the same of Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis, and a slew of other very successful ILBs who aren't tall enough. After Smith and Edmunds, the talent pool at ILB doesn't drop off. The position is stacked, so maybe Pace takes Oren Burks, Josey Jewell, or Malik Jefferson later. DLine and I posed some questions on the draft thread. Who's a must have? Who's a guy you avoid with a 10 foot pole? If it were my choice, I want the 350 lb fast-moving Dlinemen from Washington. Vea. He, Goldman, and Hicks are 1000+ lbs of a 3 front. He draws comparisons to Haloti Ngata and can play NT to spell Goldman and play 5 tech. Or if you're going to use multi-front packages, he can play anywhere on the Dline. The game tape on the draft thread is just sensational. Dude's unblockable when he decides he wants to be, and can generate pass rush, and is impossible to run on. And while I've said many times before Edge is the biggest need, I don't think Pace thinks so after signing Lynch and resigning Acho, leaving one last guy presumed to be drafted. I think Lynch has the starting nod across from Floyd unless he gets hurt, which can affect when Pace takes an edge. I think with the talent settling itself, Chubb is the only guy I'd draft at 8. If I trade down, that's when Davenport and Landry enter the conversation. They're a reach at 8 to me. 2nd round poses more options. Lorenzo Carter, Josh Sweat, Duke Ejiofor, Arden Key, Dorance Armstrong, Sam Hubbard, and a couple others depending on whom you like to read scouting reports on. I guess I don't see a 1st rounder taken on a guy who isn't going to be a top 2 rotation edge. Now if Chubb is there? The entire conversation is changed. I think 5 tech is a big need, arguably the biggest right now. After Goldman and Hicks you have Bullard and RRH, 2 guys who aren't bums, but I'm not comfortable with them starting. And with Unrein gone, the class's best option is Maurice Hurst from Michigan. Two months ago, he was a first rounder with stock going up. However, he has a heart condition and was referred to a cardiologist this offseason. And though he's been cleared, Michigan knew about his condition when recruited. I can't stop thinking about the stupid trade for Gaines Adams and how he passed his cardio tests and everything seemed fine before he dropped dead. I wish there was more medical/coverage about that than an Adam Schefter tweet. After Hurst there's Taven Bryan from Florida and Harrison Phillips from Stanford. After that there's depth, but talent begins to fall off. The CB factor I don't know. Logic says with Prince and Fuller back with Cooper, LeBlanc, Hall (or is he still trying to be a safety?), Callahan (who resigned 5 days ago, signing his tender apparently), and McMannis; I can see one or two being ousted in training camp but I see the position set. Does that mean Denzel Ward or Josh Jackson or Fitzpatrick is the guy at 8? Don't know. Does that mean some mid rounder challenges a guy who fumbled the easiest touchdown because he's an idiot? Don't know. I'd bet on the mid rounder at that point. I want a tackle, but after what, 2-3 years now of all of us bitching that Bobbie Massie sucks, and he's still on the fucking roster--I'm guessing probably not the priority we all want it to be. Interior OL is still a question mark for me. If Nelson is there, he's obviously in the conversation at 8. However, Pace hasn't said where Whitehair is playing. Is he a C or LG? Because if Pace is moving Whitehair to LG based off of when he played for Sitton who got hurt in 2016, he looked damn good--then Nelson seems a wasted talent pick unless Long is moving around too. Grasu is a weak link right now, and it wouldn't surprise me if C is more important than LG to Pace. It'd also be nice if he would fucking say.
Pat I've seen many mocks (for what they're worth) that have him on the back end of round one, but are you suggesting we take him at 8 or if we trade down a couple slots? There is no doubting his athletic ability as I've seen one play with him leaping over his own defender in route to tackling a running back 40 yards downfield. I've also read that he has moved up into the top half of round one. The rap on him is he is that his technique is far from being polished, he often disappears in game, just average off the snap, and his short arms, but aside from his wingspan those can be developed. The Bears have shown mild interest in him as he has had a private meeting. Interesting prospect no doubt.
I disagree with you here. I actually think Smith is one of the best inside LBers to come out of the draft in a long time. You'll have at least (3), possibly (4) QBs that go before you guys pick and Smith is a higher rated (in my opinion) player than at least (3) of them. Personally, take that for what it's worth which is nothing, I have them ranked: Bradley Chubb Saquon Barkley Baker Mayfield (this one here will probably make you lose your faith in me altogether) Quentin Nelson Minkah Fitzpatrick Roquon Smith Derwin James Tremaine Edwards Denzel Ward Maurice Hurst Again, I know my rankings don't add up to a hill of beans to you, but I personally think you aren't crediting Roquan Smith enough if you don't think he is in the top 8 of this draft...
Hey, that’s your opinion. That’s why we’re here - to discuss and share opinions. I would personally trade down, get more picks and draft Leighton Vander Esch. He’s much bigger (6’4” 250+) just as fast and even better in pass coverage. I just think LVE is the much better value pick at the position.
Not “injuries”. He had one stinger a year and a half ago. http://amp.profootballweekly.com/articles/2018/04/16/bfbdf711706b43789317d65fff2e0d2c/
I think he's the guy at 8 if Smith, Chubb, and Nelson are gone. I think he's that good. I actually have been ignoring/putting far less stock mocks, started doing it last year, bought in 100% this year. Former bears scout Greg Gabriel made a great point (when he wasn't drunkenly belittling Mike Florio or others on NBCSN) when he said the media/pundits don't have access to so much information teams do. They're just offering best guesses, either based on opinions of need or just guessing. And assholes passing themselves off as "experts" as they guess right on maybe 1/32 has become a part of sports I've regressed in pursuing with any interest. They don't know. We don't know until it happens. And this over-fetish-ization of mock draft season, in my book, has gone too far. Its about clicks at this point......and the one fun thing a week before the draft to talk about to be fresh and get you into the draft has been dragged out and beaten like a dead horse after the first week of the college season. Back to Vea, I think the technique is overblown when he's being a 0 gap NT. Its his job to take up 2 linemen's hands, and he does. As a 5 tech sure there's polishing to do, every prospect--even the best has something to clean up getting to the next level. He takes plays off, and that's a problem. From tape I have seen, I still like him a lot more than Edmunds, the safeties, the CBs, and the WRs. Now obviously I could be wrong, but in the spirit of opinions, I like Vea 4th, Landry 5th, Jackson from Iowa 6th.
Didn't y'all learn anything from drafting Johnny Manziel? Is your team taking him #1 or #4? And Maurice Hurst? You bring up Vander Esch's history, what about the guy with a known heart issue since college who's needed to see one (likely multiple based on teams bringing him in probably wanting him to see their own picked guy) cardiologist? Yeah, we root for the team that traded for the last guy with a problem like that. He died. And Jerry Angelo was given a pass for trading a 2nd rounder for him.
Take it easy...geesh I WISH we were taking Mayfield, he is not an alcoholic/abuser to my knowledge. But, I fully expect the #1 pick to be Darnold. #4 is more of an interest and unknown. If Chubb is there, I hope they take him, but Dorsey may be in the mood to trade down depending on the booty. As for Hurst, his condition will cause him to slide. I didn't base the list on injuries or any other outside influence, only what I personally see as talent. I didn't say I would take Hurst at #4 or anything...now if he slides to #35, yeah, at that point I would take a flyer. He came to Cleveland and I'm sure he saw a specialist while he was here for another opinion. All indications are he has been cleared medically, but who really knows.
I see this all the time and it’s just the epitome of laziness. White players at positions typically played by black guys are always compared to other white players, even though it might not be the most accurate comparison. Although... in this case, it might be, just for size and athletic ability they are pretty damn close.
I had this very quandary when i took part in the live mock they did on here. Would've been interesting to see what one of you guys with more college knowledge than me would have done. Anyway, after failing to find a trade partner for the #8 i was left in an awkward spot with 4QB's, Chubb, Barkley and Nelson all gone(which i expect to happen on draft night too). Personally i had Fitzpatrick as my BPA at this point and came very close to drafting him, but just couldn't justify it. His best spot will be Safety and we can't justify a 1st round pick there. I'm not ready to shout Ed Reed just yet but i like Jackson too. So it came down to Edmunds and Smith for me. I took Edmunds cos of the potential and positional need, but really didn't feel great about the pick tbh. Yeah just don't share your opinions too much, this clown is thin-skinned and very quick to take a hissy as dline can also attest. You mustn't remember when he came round here about a year ago trying to sell us all on how great things were going to go for the Browns with all the draft picks they had. He sounded silly then, a winless season later he sounds flat out dumb. In particular ask our friend here how things panned out with the Kenny Britt move that gave him a perma-boner. I'd do it myself but the little whiner has me on ignore LOLOLOLOLOL.
Didn't mean to come off as a prick. One of my best buddies is from 'the Land' and Manziel is a sore spot for him, but he--like me like Josh Rosen the best. Mayfield isn't an alcoholic, no, but he's a cocky sumbitch. He needs to mouth off to the wrong guy once and splat. I'm curious why him as your preference? From the very brief (<--stress brief) look at QBs, Rosen has the best mechanics, gets rid of the ball fast, and quite possibly has one of the best shoulder fakes I've seen from a college spec in some time. Why not Rosen? Darnold vastly unimpressed me (watched him against a lackluster Cal team last year and Cal's below average defense smacked him around), I don't see the hype with Joe Flacco Lite (Josh Allen), so I can see Mayfield working his way higher than thought. Gaines Adams was medically cleared by the Bucs and Bears before a couple months after the trade he dropped dead from cardiomyopathy. Perhaps because the bears looked like idiots with the trade (that they didn't get shit for because they hid behind Adams dying as a tragedy) is why when I see heart conditions, I'm more likely to pass on. I posed this on the draft thread, even though discussion has kind of moved here, so I'll pose it again. I've watched very little of LVE, is he an ILB or an edge? What is he trying to be at the NFL level? I agree that comparison from white/white or black players is kind of lazy. For what its worth, NFL.com compares him to a young Karlos Dansby. So there. I remember, but Dawg can put a sentence together and shares in pain of a bad football team. Now the steelers goof who likes to try and troll......I like him. He's made me channel my inner-CBS days where I had less issue calling people with bad/stupid opinions idiots.
I think I watched too many Rosen interviews. I don't know, there is just something about him that is off for me. I certainly think he has the physical traits you look for in a QB, but I don't see any fire in the kid. I think someone like that can make this league into a job and be successful, but I'm not sure he has the Super Bowl fire inside him...It's just a gut feeling on him. I think he will go high, and for good reasons, I just don't want him in my locker room based on what I have seen from a personal level. I think he will have a career similar to Andy Dalton, good enough...but not great. Baker Mayfield, just the opposite. What you see in cocky sumbitch, I see as an example of how hard you need to play this game to be an example for others on your team. He has never gone to a program that he didn't succeed at the highest level possible, despite not being invited to do so. It isn't solely leadership qualities that have me salivating though. He has played his position better than any other collegiate player the past 2 years. Not only that, but each and every year he has played, he has improved from the previous year. I like seeing growth in an athlete. He stayed in school and played out his 4 years of eligibility for two reasons, to make himself the best possible player he could be before entering the NFL and trying to achieve the highest honor in college football..no, I'm not talking about the Heisman, I'm talking about a National Championship. He LED his team to the playoffs and game his team an opportunity most other schools never have. THAT is the quality I want in the offensive leader of my team. All the while leading in nearly every worthwhile statistical category that is measurable. Some have knocked his arm strength, yet at the combine, his velocity was second to only Josh Allen. I'm not a huge Darnold fan either, but if we are going safe (see Rosen) I think he is more conducive to what I want to see in a QB. At least he takes some risks in order get his team in position to win. He elevates athletes around him. However, those decision have cost his team a lot of turnovers in the past. I'm not a fan there... I don't even want to discuss Allen. I have watched enough film to see a guy that will take away 100% of the QB coaches time attempting to make him into an adequate QB...Then he somehow has to learn how to play the position on top of that. I didn't see many goo decisions at the low level of play he has been at his entire career. I see a guy that can throw a ball 80 yards. We don't throw many hail Mary's at this level. I get that...Again, the list was based on talent because he said he wasn't sure Smith belonged in the top 8 talent wise..It wasn't an indication of who I would take. I don't have Nelson on any list for the Browns because we have two guards who are playing at a top ten NFL level at their position now..and paying handsomely at that for them. But, he's still on the list talent wise. The question came up of taking Vander Esch later after a trade down, and since it was a direct question about a player he wanted on the team, not just a talent evaluation, I questioned the injuries. He doesn't seem concerned about them..nor am I really as I haven't really looked into the injuries in great detail..I just heard a report. But, he isn't on our radar where we pick, so I haven't looked at him that hard.
Fandom of a crappy team along with being a complete pussy and general know-nothing doesn't get you off the hook in my book. If it did, Dimm would still be here. You say he can put a sentence together. How much were all those sentences last year worth given whats happened to his team between 12months ago and now. And im only talking about what he said on our board! You should've checked out the Browns board. Dude was slobbering over Shizer like a fat kid over the last cupcake and that was just the start. Embarrassing is what it was. Anytime you know more about someone elses team than they do, its never a good sign. Im not sure that guy was even capable of forming an opinion. He was so dumb he may even have bumped skinny up from the second bottom rung on the ladder.
The more I look at these highlights of Roquan Smith, the more I doubt he’s worth it. The guy is the same size as the running backs he is tackling. And speaking of tackling, I see didnt see many form tackle “sticks”. I saw a lot of tackling too high and dragging down or ankle tackles. I love his motor, love the desire, but I think he gets swallowed up and spit out in the NFL when trying to shed a block. Could be wrong...
