Detroit Red Wings

Is Kenny really going to let Legwand walk?

 

....well i don't think he has the legs to run anymore.

 

Umberger would make a nice addition to the Wings if they're letting Legwand, Cleary, and Bert go. He's running out of gas and would blend in nicely.

Who gets a right handed dman first, Dallas or Detroit?

The race begins now.

 

Whoops, I meant right shooting.

 

whats the difference?

 

I think and hope, that with the difficulty in even making the playoffs and the early exit, again, the Red Wings org may have learned a few things. The FA moves over the past 2 seasons were necessary, but they sure didnt pan out very well in Wiess and Legwand, for example. One thing I think they have going for them now, is Babcock is sorta pushing for a right-hander. The Wings would like to keep going the youth movement, and there are a couple good ones being farmed, but their not ready yet, and i think they have hit the spot and time that they are still forced into spending on a proven, tried and tested, FA defenseman, and/or working a trade.

Anyway, I just hope its a situation where what Mike wants, Mike gets. If Nill beats Holland to the punch, I think there are enough to go around, although it is slim pickens. They just had better do something, and this time around, get it right and spend some serious cash or offer a package that lands someone accountable. Hopefully they get what they pay for this time around.

 

lol, I know golfers and hockey players that swing opposite. For all I know the wings are full of amphibious (shalckleford ref.) skaters.

 

I have to throw a comment in here for perspective, something I hint at here and there when I hear things like the Redwings and "young" or "kids".

The wings had a total of 176 games played by skaters under the age of 23 to start the season.

By contrast, here's a few examples of games played by skaters under the age of 23 to start the season elsewhere:
CLB had 309, Toronto had 226, Chicago had 329, Boston had 286, STL 219 etc.

Even going under 24 doesn't bump Detroit up the list since only Lashoff and Dekeyser are added to the list and almost every team in the league has at least one 23 year old carrying a full load (Kruger, Calvert, Gardiner for example). I think the perception of "youth movement" in Detroit is much different from the rest of the league. I think it's fair to call them a young team, but an inexperienced NHL team is more appropriate in my opinion.

The cap and foreign leagues have caused gms to choose their own young players as opposed to overpaying for depth veterans in many cases. I've been inclined to criticize Kenny for it, but he continues to get good results in the standings until this year. Most of the stats tend to focus on average age instead of some sort of relationship between average age and ice time.

I don't oppose calling it a "youth movement" in Detroit, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't implied that Detroit is going to be much younger than most of the rest of the league.

 

I have a question here, when does Kenny stop and Babs start? Were Clearly, Bert, soreboob, Mike or Kenny ideas?

I understand what happened in January when Kenny told Babs he could have whatever he wanted, but was the original roster forced on Babs or did he help construct the mess? If the pitchforks come out in the next year or two, I want to know who to blame.

 

Another thing to consider, as much hype as Babcock gets as being a good coach, is it possible his shelf life has expired? The team has been wildly inconsistent for 3 years and he's now dropped 7 of his last 8 playoff games.

I'm not calling for him to be fired (yet), there are lots of moving parts and Detroit does a very good job of keeping everything in house and quiet.

 

i am right handed. i use a hockey stick, broom, and shovel left handed. i assume this applies to most hockey players - i don't think that it's a group with the opposite tendancy as the population at large.

and bob, i've seen u jump on this "youth" thing several times about the wings. they went from the 2nd oldest team in the league last season to the 14th oldest this season. sure sounds like a youth movement to me. i think u ought to let that horse rest in peace at this point

 

i know i was just sort of busting your balls. in a hockey sense i just think righty and lefty. most left-handed shooting players still throw w/ their right arms i think, if not most many.

 

I don't think Babcock is anywhere near having to worry about his job. I honestly believe that he is one of the top coaches in the league. just my opinion but i think its shared by many. that roster isn't strong enough but they started to [del]rebuild[/del] identify the core and branch out from there. Im w/ bob in the thinking that the Nyquist train should pump the brakes and teams will be forced to adapt to him because of his success and strong play. the #1 thing Detroit needs is a healthy Datsyuk and Zetterberg. That trumps any moves they make this off season. More depth and what the hell is going on w/ Franzen? is that deal an albatross already? i haven't seen enough of him to have a strong opinion but i look at his age and his money due and i scratch my head.

 

Let's just say signing him long term instead of Hossa back in 2009 was a mistake. I used to love the guy but now he's lazy and injury prone, as opposed to just being injury prone. I'm not a fan. If Kenny can package him for somebody (preferably a defenseman) I'm all aboard that ship.

 

They are not and were not built as a young team or as a team ready to move prospects and undeveloped players to do a signficant part of the heavy lifting compared to almost all of the other teams in the league. They were 14th because only because of injuries. Weiss, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg going down had more to do with that than anything. Franzen, Alfie, and Bert missed significant time too, but that was closer to what was probably expected and I'm confident most of the latter 3's missed games were at least somewhat anticipated. Soreboob, Clearly, and Bert were taking up space on the 23 man that would have otherwise prevented use of the younger players.
http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AverageAge.php#TeamCharts
http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams
The better answer is in between those two imo.

They're still going to be leaning on the 30+ crowd of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Howard, Ericsson, Franzen, and Weiss maybe. Only DeKeyser and Nyquist have established themselves as likely top 4 top 6 skaters. Tatar and Smith have hope but still have quite a bit to work through. Replacing old depth with younger depth isn't what I consider a youth movement if the heavy lifting it going to be done overwhelmingly by veterans again.

Some of this probably revolves around semantics and the context of the discussion since "youth movement" applied to sports can mean so many different things. "Rebuilds" seem to imply building from youth and homegrown players, "turnover" refers to roster slot swapping through various means, and "youth movement" seems to imply pushing youth to the forefront.

I consider what Anaheim has done the last 18 months to be an actual youth movement as I understand how the term is normally used. It was a concerted organizational effort to get younger on the ice from the coaching and front office level. What Detroit has done is much more like a regular roster turnover to me, injuries skewed the perception of the writers in my opinion.

This is the kind of thing that steers Detroit's roster changes into being described differently in Detroit as it would be in just about any other franchise city:

Of course among the "kids" are Smith and Nyquist. By comparison, Saad is much younger but is seldom considered anything but a young player.
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/04/youth_movement_that_kept_detro.html

 

I agree, I kind of figured that's what you were doing.

Yeah, the contract sucks, but look what big bodies that can pot a few goals are getting paid. Shit contract, great value at the same time? Bickell making 4 million to do nothing until a few weeks ago, Clowe getting a fortune, Horton, your large Bruin, etc. For 3.9 and nobody to really replace him available for reasonable cost, I dont think it's a terrible contract. The only problem is that Franzen is the type of body that you need to be a contender so if Detroit isn't a contender, they should lose the money on him to spend elsewhere.

Since I think the EC will be vulnerable again next year, I think it's better to keep him. Detroit will still have quite a few players on ELCs or initial extensions, and that will hedge the cap hit. Mule stays imo.

Everything I see with my eyes agrees with this comment completely. I think my heart thinks he's a scuk. My rational side (away from the voices) still sees good value, in a number of areas, and no good reason to move him...yet.

I didn't mean to imply that it was. He's a beast, I'm wondering how big his role is in the decision making away from the ice. The voices tell me he's been walking on water when it should be knee high or higher but I can't figure out if they're trying to get me revved up or not.

 

that's an understatement. i don't know why those semantics bother u so much in this particular case.

 

ps: i'd be interested to hear an explanation for the drastic difference in the numbers at those 2 links.

 

n/m, i figured this one out. it's because u don't attribute it to intent. no matter - it is a fact, regardless of how it came to pass. the players u named are likely gone, the trend will continue, regardless of whether it started as a premeditated choice or something brought about by circumstance.

 

One is the average age of the active roster under contract, the other is the average age of the players of the games played.

I think games missed for many of the older players is anticipated, so that takes away from the higher number's validity in my opinion (I'm assuming Kenny didn't count on Alfie for 82 for example.) Unexpected injuries to veteran players and the CBA rules cause almost every average age to be lower than any gm or coach actually plans on in my opinion.

I would prefer one that bases age on desired utilization (playoff ice time probably the closest thing) to find the average age to get a better picture, but I haven't found a very good one yet.