Exactly, and unless there is some major contact involved, it rarely is thrown. I mean extremely rare, punches usually have to be involved, though just pushing a guy with your chest or helmet has drawn them before...Mayfield didn't make any such move, he simply jumped up quickly and immediately address the player verbally.
Baker jumped up and made the move to get into Jordan's face while he was backing up. That's where you will see flags come out for the taunt. It's the move to get directly into the other guy's grill right after the play. I don't think I'm on an island here in suggesting that it could have been a penalty and I'm good with simply disagreeing on this one.
Irish, I think you may be confusing an "Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Personal Foul)" with a "Taunting" call. There does not have to be player contact involved to invoke a taunting call. In fact, I don't ever recall a taunting flag that did involve player to player contact.
Tyreek Hill got hit with a flag for taunting after getting his hand underneath the defenders face mask after the play (believe it was against the Chargers last season). The thing that may have made it the 'taunt' was jumping up after being knocked out of bounds and running straight up into the defenders face and chirping before any contact was made between the two. But your spot on about the contact aspect. No contact is needed for the flag to be thrown for taunting.
In the NFL, taunting is an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. It is a personal foul and if any player gets two, he is ejected.
https://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf From the NFL rulebook: Section 3 Unsportsmanlike Conduct Article 1 There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include, among others: (a) Throwing a punch, or a forearm, or kicking at an opponent even though no contact is made. (b) The use of abusive, threatening, or insulting language or gestures to opponents, teammates, officials, or representatives of the League. TAUNTING (c) The use of baiting or taunting acts or words that engender ill will between teams. (d) Individual players involved in prolonged or excessive celebrations. Players are prohibited from engaging in any celebrations while on the ground. A celebration shall be deemed excessive or prolonged if a player continues to celebrate after a warning from an official. (e) Two-or-more players engage in prolonged, excessive, premeditated, or choreographed celebrations. (f) Possession or use of foreign or extraneous object(s) that are not part of the uniform during the game on the field or the sideline, or using the ball as a prop.
I am aware that taunting is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. I meant unsportsmanlike conduct as in "Roughing the Passer", "Roughing the Kicker", spearing, etc.
I can't find the Tyreek Hill taunt, so I can't speak to it. The only one I could find was talking about peace sign gesture towards the Giants that wasn't called, but some thought it should. Every call is a play by play basis obviously. The Baker one, imho, wasn't even close to taunting. In fact it looked to me that he got up angry that he had just been hit in the head by the other guys helmet deliberately, which isn't taunting at all, it's testosterone. And I agree to disagree on this one...It just twisted me a weird way that you imposed my post was less than tactful. I don't think I taunted you in anyway, more asked for clarification of what you saw to make it a taunting penalty. Was it the "honestly" remark? That's being a bit pretentious if it was, don't you think?
Then why are you busting my balls about my not understanding the difference between the two? In this particular case, there wasn't any "act", contact or otherwise, that would have deserved taunting, so I'm not sure why we are even arguing this. The man was just missile hit in the head by another player's helmet, he was pissed, deservedly so. He didn't do anything that would elicit retaliation from the other player or opposing team, which is what construes taunting.
Let's just say that if you thought that should be taunting, then the games should never end because there are things said by players to the opposition on EVERY play in the NFL and the game would be an exercise of who gets less penalties if that was the case.
That might be on me, but it came off like you were questioning my post for more than my opinion when you put honestly in quotations and then basically scoffed with the 'come on, Tim'. I don't post looking to stir shit up or to try and get people to see things my way. I was just relaying my thoughts on that play as they were in the moment.
Whoa! Pump the brakes there, big fella. I never said I thought it should have been a taunting call. I said I thought the flag was thrown for taunting and then picked up after the officials talked "something" over. Truth be known, I didn't realize Baker took the shot to the head until they showed a replay from a different camera angle while the officials were in their huddle.
My apologies, my interpretation of "I thought the flag was for taunting" implied you saw something that could be taunting. A taunting penalty never entered my mind on that, in fact I simply said, good they got him for a head to head penalty on top of that run. My kids told me to calm down when Hocculi made his announcement that there wasn't a foul because he was a runner, therefore he can be hit in the head. Jawing back and forth happens on every play, so that exchange didn't even enter my mind as anything penalty worthy.
Last response and then its time to move on. What I saw was Baker jumping up, getting into the other guys grill and barking at him. I've seen that exact same scenario flagged for taunting before. And, like I said, I was getting ready to go ballistic. Not because Baker took a shot to the head (I already confessed I didn't see that until they showed the replay), but because of the Browns' recent history with the game officials.
