Almost A Complete Team Failure

Interesting stat. I'm not a PFF fan but I do believe they can recognize basic things like chip blocks and TE help...

 

I think Wallace is a one-trick pony, he's 31 so I'm not sure how fast he still is but it's kind of a moot point when your o-line doesn't give your QB time to throw it deep. Against the Steelers Flacco threw a great throw from deep in their own territory that would have gone for at least 30 yards and Wallace just flat out dropped it. The Dolphins and Vikings didn't dump him because he's valuable asset. Let's keep it real.

Maclin was available because he can't stay healthy and that shows up on game day. Even when he has played the last couple of years he did so banged up and often wasn't able to practice. A healthy Maclin is a nice #2 receiver that can help an offense. A beat up Maclin is going to give you pretty much what you're getting.

But singling out two guys and ignoring everything else is not doing justice to the WR conversation. The Ravens like every other team are tasked with building a WR room with 5-6 guys that can play and they have failed miserably. Heck, Maclin fell in their lap. No one expected the Chiefs to cut Maclin in June. That's not normally when guys of his caliber come free. It happens in March typically. What about the other guys? The draft has been rich with WRs the last few seasons and the Ravens have had ample opportunity to get impact WRs and have failed. Making this a Joe Flacco conversation (BTW he is their choice too) is a distraction to their failure to put talent in the WR room.

Dude I'm not going back and reviewing posts - at least not right now. It wasn't long ago and everyone treated you well.

You have like 4 posters here anymore. You need to venture outside of L4SN. Or just read the Baltimore press.

You won't get me to argue Joe has been different since 2014. But that doesn't mean Ozzie has failed to acquire WR talent. When your roster is full of other teams' castoffs it will show up on Sundays. Don't want to repeat myself but Wallace was dumped by Miami at 28 years old, Minnesota at 29. The Ravens got him for a modest deal (and overpaid). But beyond all that the Ravens simply haven't done a good job of drafting WRs. And they were available.

See this is where this discussion goes off the rails and it appears it's intentional. Ravens got two first downs and advanced to the Steelers 40 where they proceeded to lose 6 yards on 1st down. So immediately it becomes 2nd and 16 and they have to throw. And your analysis is "They run on 4 of 7 offensive plays."

This is accurate. No team runs every play.

So their last 3 runs have gone -6 yards, 5 yards, fumble in the backfield.

Nope. It was a 3 yard loss on 3rd and 2. Not 3rd and 7. Unsuccessful run stopped a drive.

I have when the events you tried to describe were actually described accurately.

The run created a scoring opportunity. First time all day.

Again this fails to paint the true picture. Ravens achieved two first downs to advance to the Steelers 48 yard line. On 1st and 10 they lose 3 yards and it's 2nd and 13. That becomes a passing down for most teams and then Flacco gets sacked.

I guess we will. But it's not just me. You're going to have a hard time convincing too many people that the team that ran for 82 yards outrushed the team that ran for 173.

 

I'm enjoying the debate here but I do believe the Steelers scored 3 offensive TDs vs the Ravens this year. Still, they are not as good so far as I thought they would be.

 

Oh, you are correct.

 

You're steering an argument in other directions. The draft doesn't matter for this conversation. The free agents don't matter for this conversation. The specific topic is the level of the players that Baltimore DID intend to put on the field. None of that "who they could have got" talk here.

Now, I focused on two players because we are talking about the Ravens. A team that has traditionally primarily only used their top two WRs in a feature role. Outside of 2012 and 2016, the #3 WR has never really had much of a role in Baltimore. So using actual Ravens history, there's really no need to try and say the #3, #4, #5 etc WRs are performing poorly when they are performing no worse than they previously have. Now, Wallace is going to drop passes. Just like Bryant, just like Steve Smith used to, just like Torrey used to, etc. But if you can claim to have watched any Ravens game, and you don't think those WRs are being heavily brought down by QB play, and o-line play to a degree, then there's no point continuing this conversation. Bringing up one drop as an example is interesting since you just told me I can't single out players, while you single out plays

Come on, beach. Everyone on any AFC North board knows you specifically will go as far back in post history as possible to try and prove a point. You went and detailed each individual run from two teams from almost a month ago, yet you won't find posts of me being criticizing the Steelers when it, according to you, wasn't long ago? If you remember my post, and remember how everyone treated me, then you should remember the topic right? That should make it easy for you.

What does this have to do with you saying you have seen Ravens posters make a point, and yet STILL feeling the need to come over and repeat it? Also, you're again making an unsubstantiated opinion into a fact. I'm part of a few message boards. I read far more than just Baltimore press. Buuuuut, again, what does all that have to do with you seeing Ravens posters make a point and yet STILL feeling the need to come running to repeat it? Let's try and answer the questions directly for once if possible, without diverting the topic

You can repeat it all you want, doesn't really make it a good point. Randy Moss was dumped at 27 by Minnesota and then by Oakland at 30. He must have sucked with his 3rd team. Wait, I don't even need to go through examples as Wallace was pretty good as a 30 year old on his 4th NFL team. Of course, he had better QB play than he has this year but a wide margin..........but let's not truly factor that in. I guess WRs still play at similar levels when their QBs go from 270 yards per game in a season to 170 yards, if that WR is good, right? I mean, why isn't Wallace, a deep threat, getting at least 150 of those yards from a QB who checks down within 2 seconds? Amirite?

Wow. So you post nothing but rush play yardage totals, with zero account for down and distance or score. Yet, I respond with slightly more detail, and I'm the one intentionally swaying things with a lack of information . I'm starting to remember why I wasn't going through these discussions with you.

I don't understand how you quoted me and still typed the numbers wrong. Those last 3 runs were 6 yard gain, 4 yard gain, fumble in the backfield

You're right on this, my mistake.

Smug words from someone who can flat out type incorrect information directly below where he quoted the correct info

Hmm, so you can recognize a passing down situation, but will intentionally ignore that "most teams" will pass a lot more than run when going into the second half down two scores? I mean, you're specific statement was they didn't run more because of lack of success only right?

This was nice wordplay. You changed it to "outrushed" which would be a cumulative comparison, which automatically makes me wrong. Meanwhile, you're own wording that I was actually arguing was:

The 2008 Ravens "outrushed" 28 NFL teams because they ran the ball more than all teams (32 more times than the #2 team, 73 more times than the #3 team). Their 4.0 ypc average was tied for 21st in the league (tied with 2 other teams). I'll make my next question simple, that way it'll make any deflection or attempt to sway obvious.

2008 Ravens - 37 rush attempts per game. 4.0 ypc. 2,376 rushing yards for the season.
2008 Jets - 26.4 attempts per game. 4.8 ypc. 2,004 rushing yards for the season.

The Ravens "outrushed" the Jets, but who "rushed the ball better" in your opinion? Hopefully I can get an immediate and direct response, like I gave you when you asked.

 

No, that's where YOU steered the conversation. I'm still on the same message I was on from the beginning and you are crying foul. That's pretty funny. Our first interaction was when you quoted me saying this...

"I"m disagreeing with the notion that Ozzie has put together a really good roster. He hasn't done that for years."

That's where the conversation started and the draft is 75% of the conversation. Free agents are the other 25%.

If you're not trying to put the best 5 WRs you can on the roster you're not doing your job. It creates competition and it provides depth when the inevitable injuries occur. And Maclin wasn't even part of your offseason plan until the Chiefs released him in June. So to suggest they didn't need anyone else because they had Maclin is hindsight talking. On top of that they have apparently been guilty of poor self-scouting because most people see Perriman for what he is - a bust.

That relationship works both ways and you know it. I can recall pretty vividly posts of yours in the past where you defended Flacco because "his receivers are garbage and can't get separation." I'd bet if I had the time or energy I can find them from just last year. It's amazing to me at this point you are trying to suggest that Wallace is now considered something more than the one-trick pony you called him for years.

Oh I'll find it when I have time. Wasn't that long ago. Pretty easy to go get runs at NFL.com. And I don't remember the topic.

I don't really understand what you're getting at here. I saw the subject several times, I offered the opinion that Ozzie hasn't been doing a good job lately and you're getting all butt hurt over it. Mentioning other Ravens fans talking about the same thing was merely supporting my point when you insinuated that my motivation was to just beat up on the Ravens. You don't have to discuss it and in fact I quoted someone else and actually directed my comment to them, not you. There is an ignore feature in here.

By any measure I don't believe you are right if you think the Ravens heading in to the summer with Mike Wallace as their #1 receiver is a good plan. I consider it a failure to address the roster. I consider it a failure to basically ignore the position the last two drafts. I consider it a failure to draft 4 defensive players with their first 4 picks in 2017. That's my opinion.

Oh JC just look at the first drive RR. You described it as 4 runs out of 7 plays when in fact the drive stalled because they lost 6 yards on 1st down at the Steelers 40 of the field. They could have not gained another yard in the next 3 plays and Tucker could kick a 57 yard FG. But they went backwards for 6 yards on 1st down and you didn't find that notable immediately after I had just said that negative runs were the reason that they couldn't sustain a running game.

I don't understand your idea of a conversation. I say negative runs stopped them from continuing to run. You pick out a series in which they had a negative run (which stopped them from continuing to run) and you think somehow it's proof that I was wrong? Who does that? And you do it again in another series and then in yet another series you change a 3rd and 2 to a 3rd and 7 and try to portray their willingness to run on 3rd and 7 as some kind of sign of confidence in the run game. You couldn't have screwed that response up anymore. I ser your and raise you a and a .

Call it whatever you want. I can't think of another person I know, Ravens fan or other that would watch that game and think the Ravens rushed the ball better than the Steelers. You can argue that all day if you like. And getting way from the example I was trying to use to make a point I don't believe anyone I know would look at the Ravens right now and consider them a better rushing team then the Steelers. And getting away from that and back to what you were originally saying in this really stupid hypothetical argument...

I can't think of any other person I know, Ravens fans fan or other that would seriously look at those teams and in some way try to suggest that the Ravens o-line is run blocking better than the Steelers o-line. Because that's where this part of our conversation originated. With...

"RBs are highly dependent on an o-line so the Ravens run blocking must be somewhat better than Pittsburgh's, with all those injuries still, to have a 4.2 ypc vs the 3.8 team number the black and yellow are sporting. since we'd all agree Bell is a better back than any Ravens RB."

No it's not better. Not even somewhat.

 

Anything to win an argument, right Beach? Show me where anybody has actually discussed the draft. I came in at you saying this wasn't a good roster. That part of the conversation was specifically about you stating the skill positions and o-line were bottom five. But like I said, anything to win an argument.

The Ravens have NEVER put 5 quality WRs on the roster. Fans have hated this for years, but I guess under your logic they've never fielded a good roster. That's the argument you're making......that I'm sure I'll be told you aren't actually making and this comment will be forgotten and moved on from to a whole new comment.

I have 100% said, in the past, that the Ravens WRs have struggled to get separation and I've called them garbage. Unfortunately for this deflection, we're talking about the 2017 roster. I've called Wallace a 1 trick pony many times, and he still is. Unfortunately for this deflection, it has little bearing on your statement that HE is worse. It's amazing to me you'd try and put words in my mouth that I've never said (Wallace being more). Like I said, the deflections come too often with you. It's why I typically don't do this and haven't with you in forever.

Of course. You can remember it was recent. You can remember my comment. You can remember, apparently, how nice everyone was to me about it, but the topic is a mystery.

Actually, my insinuation seems very accurate and my question was pretty direct. If you saw other Ravens fans saying something, what compelled you to come and say what's already been said? Outside of your love of speaking negatively about the Ravens whenever you can. It's a fairly straightforward question.

When oh when did I say Mike Wallace as the #1 was a good idea? That whole arguing things that wasn't said thing again. I argued the stupid insinuation that a guy must not be good if two teams moved on from him and I gave an example. Then I ended with clear sarcasm. I've never once mentioned a #1 WR. Why do you need to put words in someone's mouth in order to argue it?

So it wasn't 4 runs and 7 plays on that drive? Remember, your argument on this focal point was that the poor running is why they didn't run more throughout the game. For whatever reason, you think trailing by double digits for more than half a game isn't even worth mentioning.

I don't understand your idea, or level, of comprehension. I didn't pick out anything. I listed every single series for Baltimore up until the 4th quarter. How is that picking out a series?? I showed they kept running until the score dictated passes.

Funny thing is, I quickly and easily admitted to the 3rd and 2/3rd and 7 error. It's easy for one of us to admit mistakes. I can point out simple ones for you and you'll gloss over (like your rushing numbers only equaling 79 yards instead of 82) or big ones (like your willful ignorance to the fact damn near every team in the NFL will run less while trailing by two or more scores)

I can't think of another person I've ever interacted with that will go through so much bs to not admit to being wrong. Did you offer an actual counter for why the Steelers run blocking was better? Nope. Did you offer anything as to why the Ravens average being better than Pittsburgh's was an aberration? Nope. Did you actually offer anything at all outside of the typical Beachbum "I'm right and you're not" comparing the rushing averages of the two teams? Of course not.

Did you intentionally skip the entire last part of my post because you couldn't answer it in a way that helped your argument and didn't make you look foolish? Of course you did, as expected. Even though I directly answered your similar question, you couldn't do the same because you'd have to back out of your claim.

Anyway, I'm already having flashbacks to previous conversations and anybody that's gotten into it with you (which, sadly, is practically everyone on the Ravens, Steelers, and Browns board) knows you'll argue to the death even when you're wrong. So feel free to post your response, claim your superiority on all things football, pound your chest, or whatever you choose to do. Or don't. I don't care, I'll go back to skipping over your posts as much as possible. No point discussing anything with someone that makes claims on what I do, with no proof, refuses to answer direct questions, and will change the target any time his angle gets crushed.

 

You are clinically insane.

 

Since it seems all participants are basically winded, let me try to make sense of all this. The Ravens technically have a better rushing offense than the Steelers in terms of YPC and YPG. However, Le'Veon Bell is second in the NFL with 684 rushing yards and third in YPG (among full-time starters) at 97.7. Alex Collins is 17th in yards and YPG, albeit with a staggering (and fluky IMO) 5.9 YPC. Collins averages 10.3 carries per game, so the Ravens don't treat him as a signature back. Bell leads the NFL with 24.1 carries per game (2.3 more than second-place Ezekiel Elliot, a huge margin) while holding a respectable 4.0 YPC.

It would be ludacris to say Alex Collins is a better player than Le'Veon Bell. The Steelers rely on Bell much more than the Ravens rely on Alex Collins, which would seem silly if you simply look at their respective YPC figures. You would think Collins spanks the pants off Bell if you looked strictly at that one stat. The Ravens as a team are much worse per carry than 5.9, while the Steelers aren't that much worse running as a team than Bell's 4.0. I for one think better of RR#2 as an observer of football than to think he'd actually be suggesting Collins to be better than Bell.

The Ravens use their secondary back more than the Steelers use theirs, to the point that they appear to consider themselves to be operating by committee rather than by making one player shoulder the load. That would explain how the Ravens outpace the Steelers in rushing offense in the major yardage categories.

It's also noteworthy that the Steelers have simply executed more plays than the Ravens (147 to 130) and have outpaced them on TOP per game by a full two and a half minutes (32:45 to 30:06). So they attempt more running plays, but also more passes per game (35 to 33.3, to be exact). Considering all this, I don't see how you can deduce that the Ravens are better at run blocking or running back player performance based strictly on the YPC number. The Ravens do have 5 20+ yard runs and one 40+ yard run compared to the Steelers' 3 20+ yard runs and 0 40+ yard runs. However, Le'Veon Bell is considered an elite runner not because of his breakaway speed or big-play potential, but because he seems to pick up chucks of yards with every carry, be it 3 or 10. He's almost never caught in the backfield for a loss and his All-Pro guard David DeCastro is the biggest reason why.

Having said all that, the Ravens have the more productive rushing offense in terms of yardage right now, and there's no denying that. However, I'd bet any amount that Alex Collins doesn't maintain his 5.9 YPC figure for the length of the season, especially if the Ravens turn to him more often. He reminds me a lot of Justin Forsett, who had success for the Ravens for a season or two before quickly falling off.

This thread wasn't about Steelers vs. Ravens in any way, and normally I wouldn't be here, but I felt like doing my best to re-establish some order around here with the hot topic raging between two of our good posters.

 

I, for one was enjoying that conversation, it is always fun to see how many times a statement can be ignored and twisted to suit one's own needs. It is basically an exercise in "strawman" building and the personification of the child sticking their fingers in their ears and saying " la la la i cant hear you".

It would be cool if it could continue. Pretty great entertainment at laughing at mass projection and hilarious irony.

Seriously though, i would be interested to see Beach engage with the challenges raised by RR1 in his recent post, especially the last few paragraphs.

This exchange deserves a better end than just a "You are clinically insane."

2k

 

What's up Demo

I agree. Collins looks like he'll be a gem, but I fully agree with your statement

Now this part I'd love to discuss more with you. If you can't say the Ravens o-line is blocking better, or that the RBs as a whole are performing better, then you have to have some explanation for the higher average. If we can't say the run blocking is better, or that any Ravens players are playing better (keep in mind playing better doesn't equal better), what's the explanation on the higher average?

Okay, this is another avenue I didn't consider for the above portion. Would the suggestion be that the Ravens are simply, as a team or due to one specific player, more explosive in the run game? Or rather, have a higher potential for a big run.

Also, believe it or not, Bell has a slightly higher rate of negative plays (as a percentage of course) than Collins

Wow. It's almost like you have no issues stating actual facts when it favors the Ravens. This is why I don't mind chatting with fans that don't have an agenda.

This will actually be interesting to watch. Halfway through the season, and another game down and his average continues. Going into last night's game, Miami was the #3 run defense giving up 494 total yards allowed in 6 combined games, and allowing an average of 3.6 ypc. Buck Allen, ran for 3.6 ypc against them. Alex Collins, behind the same line, ran for 6.3 ypc.

I can't compare him to Forsett. In concept of the out of nowhere guy doing well, sure. But Forsett benefited greatly from Kubiak's zone blocking. He was getting 4 yards running straight through open holes but Forsett dropped on first contact. Collins is also getting some open lanes, but his vision is crazy on some plays and his ability to get a few yards after contact is something Forsett never had.

He isn't a speed guy either. You mentioned above that Baltimore has 4 plays over 20 yards and 1 over 40. All are from Collins. That's in addition to 11 other runs before 10 and 20 yards. When almost 20% of your runs are over 10 yards, and more than 50% are over 4 yards, you're doing something right. As a Ravens fan, I definitely will enjoy seeing how long he can keep it up

 

Well, as much as I love to crunch numbers, I'll just make it simple. Alex Collins passes the eye test. I know what I see and he is awesome. He makes great cutback moves and seems to have great vision. He could really make the 2nd half of the season special for the Ravens.

 

Howdy!

As crazy as it sound I don't think teams have been gameplanning to stop Collins that much. Even if he hasn't been playing great I think Joe Flacco has remained the focus of defenses all season thus far. Of course, Collins had to go and take off in the game that commenced about 30 minutes or so after I contributed to this thread, thereby putting me in a bind. However, if I'm right, Collins shouldn't see as many holes moving forward. I didn't see all of the game last night, so I don't know how the Ravens were able to win 40-0. It's possible that Collins is just that good. It's also possible that he's another in a long line of running backs who are set to taper off fast. (i.e. Rashard Mendenhall, formerly of the Steelers)

I'd be willing to concede that Collins (and Javorious Allen) is faster than Bell, who excels in every way except actual straight-line speed. So, the potential for a more explosive running game is there for the Ravens. Terrence West is a plodder and has never been that good, even when he was able to find success. Now it seems he's firmly in the back seat.

The Steelers are able to be consistently productive in the running game. I think the biggest reason why the Steelers find themselves trailing the Ravens in rushing YPG is because Bell took his time shaking rust off to start the season. He didn't actually get to 100 yards rushing until Baltimore. Then he dominated the Chiefs and Bengals.

Here's something that hasn't been discussed. How have the teams fared against common opponents?

Browns

Steelers - 17 rushes, 35 yards, 2.1 YPC (leading rusher: Bell, 10 rushes, 32 yards, 3.2 YPC)
Ravens - 32 rushes, 136 yards, 4.2 YPC (leading rusher: Allen, 14 rushes, 66 yards, 4.7 YPC)

Vikings

Steelers - 32 rushes, 102 yards, 3.2 YPC (leading rusher, Bell, 27 rushes, 87 yards, 3.2 YPC)
Ravens - 20 rushes, 64 yards, 3.2 YPC (leading rusher, Collins, 10 rushes, 30 yards, 3.0 YPC)

Bears

Steelers - 17 rushes, 70 yards, 4.1 YPC (leading rusher, Bell, 15 rushes, 61 yards, 4.0 YPC)
Ravens - 26 rushes, 125 yards, 4.8 YPC (leading rusher, Collins, 15 rushes, 74 yards, 4.9 YPC)

Jaguars

Steelers - 20 carries, 70 yards, 3.5 YPC (leading rusher, Bell, 15 carries, 47 yards, 3.1 YPC)
Ravens - 25 carries, 134 yards, 5.4 YPC (leading rusher, Collins, 9 carries, 82 yards, 9.1 YPC)

Bengals

Steelers - 43 rushes, 152 yards, 3.5 YPC (leading rusher, Bell, 35 carries, 134 yards, 3.8 YPC)
Ravens - 42 rushes, 157 yards, 3.7 YPC (leading rusher, West, 19 carries, 80 yards, 4.2 YPC)

And then vs. each other

Steelers - 42 rushes, 173 yards, 4.1 YPC (leading rusher, Bell, 35 carries, 144 yards, 4.1 YPC)
Ravens - 15 rushes, 82 yards, 5.5 YPC (leading rusher, Collins, 9 carries, 82 yards, 9.1 YPC) Minus 50 yard run still 8 carries, 32 yards, 4.0 YPC, though for the team it's 14 carries, 32 yards, 2.2 YPC

Steelers vs. Chiefs - 37 rushes, 194 yards, 5.2 YPC (leading rusher, Bell, 32 carries, 179 yards, 5.6 YPC)
Ravens vs. Raiders - 39 rushes, 143 yards, 3.7 YPC (leading rusher, Allen, 21 carries, 73 yards, 3.5 YPC - - - Collins, 12 carries, 55 yards, 4.6 YPC)

Some key conclusions:

- The Ravens beat the Steelers against everyone except the Vikings.
- Alex Collins is the best running back the Ravens have. I was shocked to go back and discover how Allen had almost as many carries as Collins last night.*
- The best game by either team of the season goes to the Steelers versus the Chiefs, a team the Ravens won't face this season. That game featured a game-shape Bell and the entire starting offensive line for the Steelers, once out of perhaps twice or thrice that's happened this season. <----- I know I shouldn't play the injury card when talking to a Ravens fan but Marcus Gilbert is a huge piece of the Steelers' offensive line and he's missed about half the season so far.

* - Knock against Collins: he's yet to shoulder an entire workload by himself. If that was the Steelers with Bell, he'd have 30+ carries easily. Frankly I don't know what Harbaugh is waiting for. Does he know something we don't?

It's not a big deal to be honest. I'm about analyzing, not twisting. Considering the state of our respective teams relative to each other right now I'd feel like I was piling on if I didn't throw the Ravens a bone when they deserve it.

An impressive feat to be sure. Like I inferred, I'm sure Collins and the Ravens opened some eyes around the NFL with regards to their ground game. I wanna see them keep this level of success for me to buy it.

You would know better than me on this particular topic.

Collins is no Jamaal Charles with regards to speed but I almost guarantee he's faster than Bell, who's actually at his weakest in the open field. Until the Steelers get a guy who's fast and shifty (something I don't remember them ever having), the Ravens have a higher boom potential with their ground game. While teams almost didn't know about Collins until last night, Bell has been among the NFL's elite for years now. Is it not possible that teams are more willing to stack the box and sell out to stop Bell and have been all season? Roethlisberger hasn't been playing great either and a smart team will try to make the Steelers beat them with Roethlisberger's passes.

 

Demo, great post. I was going to post 40 times, since I think both Collins and Bell ran a 4.5, but it wouldn't really matter as well all know some players play faster than their 40 time and some don't.

I do think the Ravens run blocking is being underestimated, but that's neither here nor there at this point. As stated, like yourself, I want to see how long this can last for Collins. Mainly because it'll take a ton of pressure of Joe, and could save the Ravens a draft pick next year.

To answer your question on what Harbaugh is waiting for, Collins has/had a fumbling problem. Had it with Seattle, had it the first few games here. They changed how he carries the ball though and he's only fumbled once in the last 4 games (still a lot but better than weekly). It's also likely why he doesn't get goal line touches very often. The fumble in the Miami game happened on the one, but went out of bounds so no harm no foul. But it still happened

 

First I want to say that maybe I was wrong about Collins. Maybe. Like most I want to see him get 25-30 touches per game for a few consecutive games and see how he holds up. I can see Harbs doing that the next two games before the bye. Even so, I'd still like to see the Ravens use a 1-3 draft pick on a RB next year.

That might be another thing Harbs is waiting for. Collins barely played with Seattle last year and until West went down, was on the PS with the Ravens. He also runs all-out every play. The way he can pick up extra yards is amazing. He makes me tired just watching him. But, he's only 5'11" 210/215 lbs. In comparison, Ray Rice was 5'8" 210. Jaamal Charles is 5'11" 205.

I also believe that teams have not yet focused on him being the starting RB, except maybe MN. It will be interesting to see against Tennessee, with one-time nemesis Dick LeBeau as the DC, giving up an ave. of 3.6 YPC and rank 10th against the run.

I agree with RR1 about the Ravens blocking. I've said for the past few weeks that Eleumenor should not have been starting. Skura played against the Dolphins and the difference in pass protection and run blocking was night and day. I still find it hard to believe that Bergstrom was worse. But that's a moot point since he is no longer with the team (signed with the Redskins).

 

I thought we re-signed Bergstrom. We cut him again?

 

Yep. When they signed Whalen. I guess they knew Skura was coming back.

 

Not sure who could ever make that comparison seriously, but Collins has been a revelation for Baltimore and probably has Seattle (at least) kicking themselves for cutting him. The Ravens signed him ans he went straight to the PS suggesting that he passed waivers and no other team had an interest. Considering that he shares a distinct college record with Hershel Walker and Darren McFadden of 3 straight seasons with 1000+ rushing yards that seems like too many teams asleep at the wheel. To me Collins would seem prime for a feature back role somewhere, but he's been over looked perhaps due to ball security issues and/or lack of use in the passing game. Those appear to have been easily rectified.

This is both a strength and weakness. Obviously the more snaps that are shared in a committee the fresher your backs stay. However, there are many RBs that do better the more touches they get (i.e. Bell). This also lends an offense to different plays. I'm not sure that the power rush scheme is a place for a back by committee approach unless they are all brute force battering rams to tear down and demoralize defenses. That's not easy and being one-dimensional is not always successful. The Ravens have lacked creativity overall and set coaching instincts aside. They are loathe to change their schemes either mid game or mid season despite a rapidly changing roster. This means to me they are too resolute in executing their strategy as to make players fit their system and not coach players to strengths of the players they have. That is to say, it's all failure. They just have a problem at looking gift horses in the mouth. Collins too wasn't used extensively at first when West was down and it cost them. Now they're buying what he's got, BUT what happens when West is ready to return?

If you watch Collins runs, they start him back further in the back field because (IMO) he has a high top end but takes a little more time to build up to it. This would be an unusual instance of Baltimore's coaching changing their scheme to fit a player's attributes. Like Bell, I think that Collin's best asset is his vision at the LOS and he too is rarely (in limited touches at least) is caught behind the line. When he is, he somehow manages to at least avoid the TFL.

I'm not so sure. It's likely he comes down from 5.9 and I' don't remember any FT RB every maintaining that average. However, I mentioned his college performance above so it's possible he could still be end well over 4 yds/carry which for a low cost-low risk find like him would be amazing. My chief concern is 2-fold: 1) what the team will do when West comes back, and 2) that his running style might lend itself to injury. Of the latter, he's been oft describe as "running with reckless abandon" which does not bode well unless he has great situational awareness to avoid injuries. It can go either ways. He's still an enigma.

Eh, that's Beaches doing. He like to disagree for it's sake alone. It became about the Ravens not ever being able to putting together a good roster. What anyone can agree with him on he still makes a point of argument, so thanks for trying to get it back on track.

 

So back to the L column with this team. This offense is playing uninspired football. That lack of urgency for the last drive showed ZERO FUCKS given to get anothe legit chance to score. Players were not rushing to line up in the 2-minute drill. Other teams will fight like hell to ensure this. They either don;t score and lose or score and have a shot to get the ball back. It's all about creating enough opportunities to win. They didn't do this AGAIN today.

We need another OC at the least. And Joe "Cool" needs to show some fire.