Jordan Love has now, in one season, accomplished more than Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields have ever done. Same with CJ Stroud. I said this a few years ago, this team is built around people "hoping". Hoping Eberflus is more than the games against good teams has shown. Hope Eberflus will "get it" when it comes to making good hiring decisions, or calling plays. Hope Fields will turn the corner and suddenly be consistent where he has been anything but. Hope the Braxton Jones becomes a legitimate starting LT. Hope Mooney will be a #1 WR, and then hope he will be a #2. Hope Teven Jenkins will stay healthy. Hope Nate Davis will be better. Hope, hope, hope, hope. So little we can point to as "this is good" and instead hope. Hope that Eberflus won't be a lame duck next year and fired the year after when the team under performs again. Hope that Jordan Love isn't good. Hope that we can beat the Packers someday. HOPE. The Packers don't have the legs to make a trophy run, but then again, outside of the 49ers and Ravens, no one has looked that good. Any given sunday. And a few years later NONE of that "everything else" is still here, include that fuckhead. But he was never the problem. There is only one, ultimate problem, and the buck stops with him.
I've come to terms with the fact that the Packers have found another elite QB. And tbh I'm not that pissed about it. What impressed me most about yesterday was how thoroughly prepared they were for that game. On both offense and defense they knew what they were doing and executed every play like a team on a mission. Love made Erin-like plays like he had been doing them for years. The credit goes to LaFleur and his staff for putting Love and everyone else in a position to succeed.
I'm not going to take anything away from Love having an outstanding last 5 games. But I'm not there yet, and want to see it another year at least--or at least a repeat where he does what he did to Dallas and the Bears to San Francisco. LaFleur schemed a hell of a game, made his QB's life immensely easier, and the Packers' OL (not being talked about as elite even though they should be) ate the Cowboys front 4 (and the bears a week ago) for lunch. Parsons was blocked, like Sweat. Nobody could get home, and LaFleur was scheming guys open left and right, which is easy to do when Love has all day to sit and enjoy his coffee, read the entire Sunday paper, and do the NYT crossword on the highest difficulty. I'm wondering how Daron Bland (who gave up something like 6 catches for 137 yards in the 1st half) was an all-pro 1st team over Jaylon, but that's another argument. I'm not there yet because I still saw bad duck passes, and even on wide open guys (their last TD when Musgrave was wide open uncovered) he almost missed whereas my PTSD from decade plus of Erin kicking this teams' ass that ball is placed perfectly hitting his guys in stride. He's not Erin, and I don't think he'll be as good as Erin. I'm not blinded, he's already ahead of Justin (I keep going back to Justin's rookie year, Allen Robinson busted wide open over the top, and JF didn't even look that way because 'it was a naked PA boot.') See the wide open guy busted downfield, throw to him, good things happen, whether that's a busted play or a PI giving you a fresh set of downs and big penalty yardage. Maybe someday the bears can figure that out. LOL oh wait, they just interviewed Greg Roman for OC yesterday. So never passing to the point where Ravens WRs say 'if the bears hire Greg Roman, every WR should demand a trade' could be the plan. Now fuck the packers, but they put on in the postgame of Dal/GB that GB has more playoff wins in new Jerry Dome than the Cowboys do.
Totally agree here. Love was throwing to open receivers. And not just a little open. There were plays where the closest defender was in another zip code. I've seen Love make some awfully nice throws with a defender in his face. Contrary to what announcers will tell you...Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers didn't invent the back foot throw. But Love has an ability to do those throws too and he's made some nice ones. But so much of what the Packers are doing on offense is scheme. Great scheme. But Love throws up 5 to 6 nasty ducks per game as well. He threw several against the Bears that should have been easy INTs. And yeah. Fuck Greg Roman. But knowing this franchise...that's exactly where we are headed.
From espn: Kliff Kingsbury is the ninth known candidate the Bears have requested to interview, joining a list that includes Shane Waldron, Greg Olson, Klint Kubiak, Liam Coen, Greg Roman, Thomas Brown, Marcus Brady and Zac Robinson. 'Meh' is probably the best/nicest I can think to describe this list. Though if they go Kingsbury, they're definitely taking Williams.
Wow lots going on but at a snails pace. First Flus is here to stay. Hmmm. I want to hate this. My gut tells me to hate this. But my brain just might be ok with it. I look at it this way. Harbaugh wasn’t coming unless Poles and Adams were leaving. Same for BB who I want no part of anyway. So who were sure fire upgrades? So we let Flus continue to build the defense and hire someone to do offense. Worked for Lovie. I know Lovie never got us over the hump but he never had Fields or the top pick in a draft during a QB rich year. Speaking of top pick in the draft I would be floored if Poles doesn’t take Williams #1. Makes too much sense. It buys both himself and Eberflus a little cushion while Williams learns. If they stick with Fields and he flops they are most likely both bye bye. As for Williams I know there are no sure things but come on. He has all the things you look for plus his tape is as good as his measurements. He comes from a good background. For every story about him being a Diva there are 10 about how well he was liked by coaches and teammates. The worst thing you could say about his dad is that he kept him out of trouble and kept his eyes on the prize from HS to College to the NFL. And by trouble I don’t mean gangs or that king of stuff I mean shielding him from those that would try and steal him wrong for their own profit or well being. It’s fun to think of the haul of picks we could get and keep on getting by trading picks. Or we stop passing on future HOF QB’s and add another stud to the OL or DL with our 2 top 10 picks this year. Add hopefully a 2 this year and another next year for Fields. And we stop picking in the top 10 every year.
Bears finalizing contract with Shane Waldron as the next OC per Tom Pelissero/nfl network. Dude resurrected Geno Smith’s career in Seattle as their qb coach. Sounds like they’re asking him to do the same with Justin. Unless it’s smoke and mirrors and here comes a drafted kid.
The good news about this is its a hire who has playcalling experience. Quite a lot of it which is nice. He's also a product of the Shannahan/Mcvey coaching tree which is arguably producing the most dynamic and cutting edge offenses in the NFL today. Without digging into the fine details it is a general offensive philosophy that Getsy also ran, that means that while the terminology might change, the concepts largely shouldn't. I'm hoping that makes installation easier for the skill positions while also having blocking concepts thats still scheme fit most of the guys here. Pat also mentioned Geno Smith and while there's no way to know how much credit deserves to go one way versus the other, i think its fair to give the OC during such a turnaround a good slice of the credit. So there is some good here and one thing i have no problem saying is this is an upgrade over Getsy. Thats not to say i love the move. Looking at some of the numbers of Waldron's offense and how it has produced, its not great. I think im right in saying his offense has been no better than middle of the pack in both yards and scoring during his run as Seahawks OC. Thats not encouraging when you consider the Seahawks are in pretty good shape at the skill positions, its not like they lack weapons. In fact after they drafted JSN and Chardonnay and you add it to Metcalf, Walker, Lockett* and even Fant, that team looks stacked at the skills. As it turns out i wound up watching quite a few Seahawks games last year.....there were plenty when it looked really hard work to move the ball. When i watched them i wasnt seeing them scheme up easy gains very often. The playcalling never seemed very inspiring to me. But the last 24hours i've read how "explosive" Waldron's offense is and how he's an "elite" playcaller. Maybe im just wrong, but sound like the kind of guy many Seahawks would want to see gone, which many do. Maybe you could share some thoughts on the matter varder seeing how its your neck of the woods.
Found this online. No idea who the F he is. No idea if its accurate. But its a ranking and its has OC names on it.
100%. I’m pleasantly surprised they got him and I actually really like the hire, for everything you said and more. Apparently, Sanjay Lal (Seattle's WR coach), Chad Morton (Seattle's RB coach), and Kerry Joseph (Seattle's QB coach) are interviewing/following him along to be members of the new offensive staff. Lal getting praise from DK Metcalf for developing him is something I'd like to see on the staff. I'm shocked he picked the bears. Waldron was widely considered by multiple teams, including about-to-be fresh coaching staffs (Atl, Carolina, Wash, NE, Vegas, Tennessee, even Philly he'd have more slack), where he easily could have had 2-3 years cushion/job security as an OC. Instead, he takes a job here with a lame duck HC where after 1 year he could be toast. So he's gambling a lot. Does he think this is the best offensive group that gives him the best chance? Ehhh...he interviewed in Atlanta, and they've got weapons and an OL, plus they're due for a rookie QB/completely new QB room as Heinicke and Ridder are bums, have to think they'd be the strongest with talent to work with. The bears have DJ Moore, have 2 RBs I feel nicely about going into next year, and a bottom 1/4 OL (PFN had them finishing as the 27th ranked OL after week 18) and Fields.
He might be banking on two things: 1) if the offense does well while he's here, then theoretically the team should be good enough that no one gets fired. or 2) if he's got the QB - Fields or a rookie - on his side, the argument can be made that he should be the head coach to succeed Eberflus, should the team struggle again next year. Just off the top of my head. We'll know more as more staffs get hired.
You absolutely have to love modern media and how fucking nuts it gets. All the media outlets were slobbing Waldron's knob, and then I listen to Hoge and Jahns where they get the beat reporter from Seattle and he proceeds to shit on him (mostly for 3rd/4th down and redzone playcalling, he did praise his 1st/2nd down design and scripted plays). That one is worth a listen if you have the time. The Seahawks subreddit was split 50/50 on people sad he is leaving, and those saying good riddance. The jist of it there was he was good, not great. That said, I don't quite understand where the guy on Hoge and Jahns comes from giving all the credit to Geno's resurgence on Geno. Geno sucked before, and his argument is he just had the determination and never gave up. Which true, but clearly something about Seattle unlocked him. As for his struggles this year, my neighbor was telling me early on about their struggles with the O-line, which is the biggest part of what contributed to the lack of production this year, injuries all over the place. My neighbor is also one of those who wasn't happy to see Waldron go, but glad my team is getting him. The Seahawks fans out here honestly remind me of Packers fans, spoiled and bit entitled. They've had such a sustained run of success, but they have been limbering along, and just miss the playoffs to fire Pete (much as I hate him, he's damn good)? Nonsense. Watch them land fucking Harbaugh or something. I will say, no one was bitching about Waldron this year, it was mostly offensive line woes. When Bevell was the OC? Good grief, every week people bitched. The Bears supposedly hired him because he would be able to adapt his scheme to whatever QB we end up with, leaving options open. So it could be rejuvenating Fields (seems unlikely), or Williams/Maye. Personally, I think him getting input on working with a #1 overall pick is what would tip the scales to him coming to the Bears, so I doubt it's rehab Justin. I felt good about it before that Hoge and Jahns podcast, but I still think, like you Ev, that this is a massive upgrade to Getsy either way. And really, I had been bracing myself for the worst, and this definitely doesn't fit that bill. Lots of playcalling experience, has been a part of good offenses, solid tree. Plenty to like.
Greetings again everyone! I hope you all are doing well. Not sure whats going on with me lately, but I've been obsessed with the NFL playoffs this year, and I'm chomping at the bit to get this Bears offseason started. Thought I'd come back on over here and see where your heads were at. Some discussion points and questions for yall below! --- Where are you all at on Caleb Williams (or Maye) Vs. Fields? I've been pretty firmly in the Caleb Williams camp since probably November. A few weeks ago I went and legitimately watched every 2023 snap. I'm completely sold on him. The main things that jump out to me are his pocket presence and Quick Release+arm strength. Caleb Williams took a ton of sacks, and i've heard a lot of people say "Caleb and Fields have the same flaws!". In my opinion, you simply cannot say that with a straight face if you've actually watched both guys play. Caleb WIlliams' awareness of the pass rush, and natural "Feel" on both WHEN to "get out" and WHERE to "get out" is extremely good. Then you add to that a lightning fast release. Williams might be a "See it throw it" guy right now, but he does so without hesitation. When he sees it, the ball is OUT in a blink. How many times have we seen Fields stand in the back of the pocket, double clutch once or twice, and take a sack? Personally, I think we have to draft Caleb Williams. Building around Fields might be the safer option, and when its all said and done maybe Fields is the better QB. I think anyone who pays attention would agree that at the end of the day - when it comes to QB you just never know for sure. But Fields was just not good enough last year. --- As for Shane Waldron, I think he is a great hire. Given the Bears aren't in the Head Coach market, I dont see how they could have done much better. The way I see it, Seattle was more than the sum of its parts on offense both years he was calling plays there. His most direct coaching tree is under Mcvay, the hottest tree around right now. Hes a "Mcvay tree guy" who has also been on Belichick's staff and Carol's staff. Hes not the sexy pick, but I'm very pleased. --- As for the "why did he take the job" discussion. I dont think it has ANYTHING to do with usurping Eberflus. I think that Idea is stupidly overblown. It'd be a super weird needle to thread where Flus deserves to be fired and Waldron deserves to be promoted. Is it possible? Sure. This Bears OC Job is extremely appealing for anyone who wants to become a Head Coach and is confident in themselves. You're talking about an opportunity to attach your name and resume to a very well rated QB1 prospect, who will be walking into a team that already has DJ Moore + Cole Kmet as 'safety valves', already has a good defense, and has good draft capital and cap room to build around that prospect to boot. Its an insanely good launch pad situation for someone who wants to be a HC. --- What are your thoughts on Free Agency, and #9 overall/draft? Surprise surprise, but I'm personally hoping there is an emphasis and full commitment to give Caleb Williams the best support possible to start his career. In Free agency, they have got to sign a Center if a bonafide upgrade is available. I wont pretend I know much about the centers available, but Miami's Connor Williams is supposedly pretty good. If he hits the market, I would love to see the Bears overpay to make sure they get him. Other than that, the Wideout FA class is pretty deep, I would like to see us land a bonafide vet like a Curtis Samuel. As for the draft, i'm feeling pretty good. Depending on how the board falls we are like to see two of: Fashu, Alt, Bowers, Odunze available. I would be thrilled with any of them. If they wanted to trade down to draft an EDGE or different WR instead, I could get on board.
Nice to see that this place is still chugging along! Its crazy that this forum is still going strong. I started chatting with some people here when I was in high school (!) on the CBS forums. I'm now a married man in my late 30s. Crazy!
That's unreal! A lot of water has gone under the bridge since we all joined here. A lot of life changes. Dline has had a kid and moved across the country. Mongo had disappeared from our sights. I can't even find him on chisports. This is still the absolute best place to rant, discuss, scream and blow shit up. It's great seeing you
Nice to see you Go Bearss! Been a minute. Where did you get this nugget? This has to be a facebook thing, that's just a convoluted way to coming up with reasons, when the notion that he gets to work with a #1 overall drafted QB and DJ moore, and some good RBs. And as Hoge and Jahns said, if you're the guy who brings the Bears offense into respectability, we're building statues. That's enough. It does chap my ass to see Harbaugh go to the Chargers. That means the Bears could have landed him. Waldron and Eberlose better be that good.
I shut it off about 2-3 minutes of the guy talking. I was interested when he talked about red zone and lack of running, but then the dude just pulled things out of his ass when he said 80% of Geno's transformation was Geno, 15% was Carroll, and Waldron is 'in the rest.' I'm not saying you have to like the guy, but come on... Hoge and Jahns are also idiots. Good to see you back, Go Bearsssss. As for Caleb vs Fields, I'm not wild about Caleb, but have accepted he's the guy and should he be, I'll root for him. I want absolutely nothing to do with Drake Maye. My problem mostly stems with the wild theories circulating that the bears should just give Justin away in a trade. I brought up in other threads how the last 2-3 weeks of the season, every pundit on every show already traded Justin away faster than the speed of sound. I don't get that. This is me hating arbitrary trades just to trade guys. I believe he still has value at 6 mil per year, and you pick up the option which is estimated 22-24 mil. As for Caleb/Justin comparisons, I believe there's merit. When a play breaks down, each player's vision/escapability/ability to turn on the after burners to avoid bad plays/possibly make good ones is the comparison, and I think its valid. I've read the rest that Williams is a pocket guy capable of fast throwing that Fields hasn't done, inducing the 'Tyson Bagent craze.' I also see Caleb as you mention--took a bunch of sacks. Another similarity between the two is they'll hold the ball to not force a bad pass. I have no idea who's saying this, but they should be beaten and shot. They didn't hire Waldron to usurp Eberflus, and the McCaskeys, as retarded as they are--aren't this level. They hired him to turn around the offense, and Waldron--IMO as speculated by myself/DLine has to think this is the team (though I'd argue Atlanta with better weapons/OL) that gives him the best chance to be the next Adam Gase, one year as an OC and done and someone else's HC next year. I wanted Connor Williams and believed him the guy to target given the need, and how Miami walks into this offseason 50 million over the cap and a bigger name (Christian WIlkins the DT) to keep/have priority. He suffered a torn ACL last week of the season or their playoff loss, so value will come down, but he can't be the guy you break the bank on. I don't want to hold out hope for Tyler Biadasz but I'd prefer him now, Cowboys are in less of a tight spot financially compared to Miami (they walk into the offseason 19 mil over the cap), but Dallas has an ability to keep their good players/OL. Keeping McCarthy may help this, as they seem less prone to cut Dak and save a ton of money by running it back another year. Another FA I look to poach is AJ Epenesa from Buffalo. Situational pass rusher. Keeping an eye on Baltimore. They have 13 mil in cap space, and DT Justin Madubuike to pay (along with their starting LG Josh Simpson, who is 26, extremely talented but has some penalty issues) as well as Odell/multiple WR spots as Odell/Agholor are FAs. Should Baltimore not pay Madubuike, that's your 3T target you pay the ever-loving shit out of. As for WR, you're going to have to draft one and sign another for depth. Right now the FA list looks tantalizing, but I don't think Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman really hit the market. Bengals will keep Higgins/let Boyd go. And Indy isn't letting their best WR walk. I think you sign Reynolds away from Detroit for depth or Hollywood Brown from the Cards, and draft another guy ideally late 1st/early 2nd in a trade down. WR is highly deep this draft, and I like Brennan Rice from USC (dude is a red zone TD catching machine with size), along with Adonnai Mitchell from Texas, Xavier Legette from South Carolina, Jalen MacMillan from Washington (#2 to Odunze), Keon Coleman or Johnny Wilson from Florida State, or even Roman Wilson from Michigan. If you're staying at 9, regardless of #1, my favorite edge is Laitu Luatu from UCLA. UCLA was never a world beater this year, but every game I saw, even in losses this guy cut the opposing offense's field in half. Like him far better than Dallas Turner, much more than Jared Verse. If I can't have Luatu, I personally don't draft a DE round 1. Chop Robinson from Penn State comes next closest, but IMO he's a 2/3 rounder someone will make a late 1st. I want an OT, but Alt will definitely be gone by 9. Olu Fashanu really had an ugly end to the season for Penn State, and a lot of pundits are down on him right now. Troy Fatanu, an OT from Washington with versatility to kick inside is probably a need. I'm of the belief (albeit probably lonely dying on this hill) that you need 2 OGs. Teven, for as good as he was this past year, just cant stay on the field and the last game of the season where Packers DTs were abusing him 1 on 1...I don't see the value at this point. Nate Davis is a fucking bum, and he joins a long list of players I don't need to see in a bears uniform, let alone starting games for them. My favorite C in the draft is Jackson Powers Johnson. I try to draft him, and sign Connor Williams short term. The bears finished the season 27th OL in the league, per PFN. I think everything but RT needs fixing, and I'm in the minority. The fact that there are fans thinking 'the bears just need a Center' boggles my mind. I'm annoyed because Braxton still sucks (I don't want to hear about his highly graded PFF score against Brian Burns' back up when they played Carolina) but he's not a top 3 problem on the OL, so he probably gets LT starting spot, unchallenged, again. Like a stupid fucking franchise would do. But then again, this fanbase salivates over defense and pines for a modern offense without doing what's necessary to put themselves in the position for one or understanding how that works. Found my AFC team to root for when this team inevitably pisses me off again.
Still need to do more reading to catch up here, but had a thought last night - I think the Seahawks' starting center is a free agent this year. Might be smart to sign him (familiarity with Waldron, veteran caller at the line, and can't be worse than the shit they've trotted out there), and still draft a center / guard prospect early on. If you can draft a guy that looks like a future fixture at center, but can also play guard as a backup in a pinch, that justifies a higher pick. There needs to be a serious fix for the interior of this OL, and a patch-up free agent signing alone isn't going to be it (as we've seen plenty of times before). Free agency and draft together gives you depth, competition, and a veteran presence until you're confident a younger guy can do the job.
