Thats a fair point, i dont know that for certain. In Bates case there probably wasnt cos he cant even get on the field, but if there's any kind of trade competition then no problemo, im out. No way am i flushing a 5th rounder on a backup, thats it. What Bates was really about tho was Poles having to scratch an itch over missing out when he signed for the Bills. He must be some hidden gem for Poles to be so hung up on that he just cant risk him hitting the market. Lets see how it plays out. All his other low key OL moves have been such winners... As for Allen, def more possible there was trade competition. The move really came out of left field tho and caught out every semi hooked up reporter out there. If the Chargers were floating Allen then it would've been reported. Def possible another team made contact, I suspect the Bears just got in there first tho and would need to read something credible to change my mind on that. Its good to add quality depth. Thing is quality depth almost always = backup. More than backups on OL the Bears need actual quality starters, thats my problem with all this. Seems im not the only one operating off inside info. How exactly do you know this Robert? JK Here's the reality. The Chargers were in cap hell, with 4 big problems in particular. Williams, Allen, Mack & Bosa. All carried huge cap hits and cuts/trades needed to be made. In probability 2 had to go. Williams did, which probably leaves you dropping 1 of the other 3. Bosa is the most expensive, but he's also one of their best players and in his prime, i don't think he goes. Which leaves Mack & Allen. Age & positional considerations make Mack the fav to go, but cap wise its less damaging to choose Allen. The Chargers have mismanaged their cap so they were left with a bad choice either way. IMO its slightly more likely Allen goes but you really cant say. Its certainly not a given that Allen was done there. Where i wholeheartedly disagree is your notion that none of this impacts the Chargers in the draft. Shipping out your both #1 & #2 WR is bad on so many fronts. You've massively weakened the position and you've almost certainly pissed off your QB. As a GM you virtually HAVE to take a WR at #5 now. Unless there was some good WR in the league you could acquire. But realistically the Chargers arent in a cap position to pay a guy, so it will be the draft. Its a bad look for a GM to have to draft 1st round any position in back to back years cos it signals you haven't managed your roster very well. The Chargers have a pick in the #late30s but a LOT of WRs could have gone by then. We can circle back to this maybe post draft, but if the Chargers keep that pick then they are taking a WR at #5 now imo. If Allen is still on the team its far less likely because they simply arent in the same hole positionally. Re Allen's contract that you guys have mentioned. I think a probably 2, possibly 3, year extension is coming very shortly. You have to. It would be a big time fail to do this for a 1 year rental. Re Allen's injury history, i dont have time to look it up, but he has missed plenty of games the last few years. Its def a concern. As far as the O-Line is concerned Poles has 100% shat the bed. No names who other teams decided they dont need do not cut it, at all. Poles needed to get serious about the O-Line and he categorically hasnt.
I said right at the beginning of the offseason it would be a mistake to run it back with Flus as a lame duck and a rookie QB, who will then be forced to adapt to a whole new system in year 2. Like what happened with Fields, and Mitch, and even Rexy. But everyone who knows better than me is saying Caleb is can't miss. Given that the market is bone dry for Fields, do we just say fuck it and trade down for another massive haul, focus on the o-line and edge in the draft, suck again in 2024 and fire Flus and draft a QB in 2025? Everyone here knows I'm probably Fields biggest critic on this board so for the record I don't expect him to be any better going forward.
Dante Pettis is back? Great job Poles! That solves the WR depth issues. The queens accumulating cheap 1st round picks is noteworthy. Houston must not want 5 year options on guys, and Minny probably has ammo to trade into the top 5. I'm not confident in 4/5 starters. Patchwork and bad is going to get everybody killed, and chunk plays will sputter, and it will be terrible yet again. It'd change to 3 if Ryan Bates can beat out bum ass Nate Davis (shouldn't be hard) in camp for RG, then I think you have the makings of a good right side of the line. But that's not the plan, where you use Ryan Bates where he's shown to be above average and a competent NFL starter. No, they're going to put him at Center, where he looked swell for a dozen snaps. Well, Pace constantly cut off his nose to spite his face until it backfired then he flailed, traded up for a qb and again for preinjured OL. Draft picks are candy and every day is Halloween. It is true, the offseason's not over. And yes, I'm a bit guilty of being very critical of Poles. But its now year 3 of Poles and Flus, still no Center, still no 3 tech, and WR matters more than a bum ass, patchwork OL that constantly puts you behind the 8 ball developing a QB let alone pass plays leading to chunk yard gains, which is the name of the game in 2024. Meanwhile, fans are spinning their wheels wondering why the hell the oldest franchise in the league is the only one that doesn't have a 4000 yard passer and its just apparent. Even being dealt a shitty hand by Pace, which we all agree Poles got, at some point, he's got to be held accountable for bad moves, whether that's acquiring a bum or ignoring the most important parts of his defense and the OL. How long does he get? We just saw a team arguably worse off (but they have a top 3-5 LT in the game) turn it around after 1 year in Houston. How many years does Poles get?
Really this is now 3 offseasons where it hasn't been a priority and just nothing but patchwork attempts at a solution. A total continuation of the Pace approach.
He swung and missed on Claypool. Everyone brings it up every time someone tries to build Poles up. He’s not Jekyll and Hyde when the Jekyll keeps changing but the Hyde stays the same. What moves has Poles made that are so alarming! Are you that concerned about giving up a 5th for Bates? IMO at worst he is a plus backup at best he is Akiem Hicks for the Oline who thrives in a new environment. Saying I’m still the overly optimistic rose colored glass wearing fan is really not fair if you have been paying attention. I have had no problem calling it like I see it. I have held Poles to a high standard just as I did Pace. If Pace would have chosen Mahomes instead of Trubisky life would be a little different right now would t it. And for all those that say Mahomes would have sucked if the Bears took him does anyone remember Trubisky’s second season? You telling me Mahomes would t have been Mahomes on that team? Sorry to rant there. The Bears were one of the youngest teams in the league last year so we are building through the draft. But you can do both build through the draft and add veterans. Poles has added some higher quality reserves/competition to the O line. Job isn’t done I am not a believer in Pryor/Bates at C. Would like to see an upgrade at LT. If the oline falters this season I will be first in line to bash Poles but I will give him his props if it succeeds. When the line was healthy Jones, Jenkins, shit, David, Wright looked pretty good. Fix center and with better backups already on the roster this isn’t the shit show we have seen in the past. You can still draft a WR. You just can’t use the 4th round pick that you gave up for Allen to do so. Are you so sure that the long term solution at WR2 was going to be sitting there for us in the 4th round? Trading for Allen does nothing to change the chances of one of the top 3 WR’s from falling to us at 9. Allen was not going to be a Charger no matter who traded for him or as Ev is convinced he was released. So it’s still very possible the Chargers, Giants and Cardinals take those three WR’s and leave us without. We now have a backup plan. I would like to see a contract extension for Allen that makes him more affordable going forward but it’s not an immediate need. Maybe we see how he does through camp and the early part of the season. You’re losing me here. What is it that makes you fear Poles pulling a big 2 first rounder trade next offseason? For who? For what? If Williams has a great rookie year Poles will all of a sudden need to get rid of future first round picks? It’s more like he will have a full stack of picks plus an extra 2nd rounder to continue to add talent to this team. Depending on how the young DT’s play out we might still need an upgrade at 3T next year. Maybe we land a great young WR this offseason maybe it’s still a need next offseason. Gotta keep building that o line. Absolutely! I am absolutely on board with Eberflus should have been canned. But he wasn’t. Doesn’t mean I’ll shit on everything Poles does going forward. What are all the head scratching moves he’s making that has you so worried?
My sarcasm aside I couldn't agree more. I mean it was silver linings for Poles to admit finally that Mustipher was not the answer at C, and the fact that Jones appears to be our "long term" answer at LT couldn't bug me more. I still like Jenkins, but he can't stay on the field, so there's no way they pick up the 5th year there.
Bates becoming Akiem Hicks is about as optimistic as you can get rob, lol. Yes, I'm concerned about a 5th for Bates? I'm concerned about unloading draft picks like autumn leaves. We now have 4 picks in this draft, 1 from Carolina, our 1, our 3 and the *eagles* 4th. 2 of those are OUR picks. "Akiem Hicks for the Oline". Nothing but love for you bro but c'mon. We'll all give him props when he succeeds. I'm still waiting for that day. I am nowhere near as high on this line as you. Of all the moves Poles has made, trusting this ragtag group of backups to start is his biggest problem. I'm not saying you can't draft a WR, but Ev points out the Chargers are in the market. Would they have been anyway? That's a big game of what if. What we know for a fact is, they are now, and we helped with that. In a vacuum I don't hate the move so much, but it's a short term move. For what it's worth, I do think they will extend him pretty quickly. But that's not going to mean much if he's injured on the bench for a good portion of that contract. This last bit is just my fears, I don't have a crystal ball, neither do you. If Williams has a great rookie year, how do you know he won't "Pace" it up and shoot for a "win now" move? What gives you confidence he's going to hold on to picks in that case? The jury is out on this dude right now. To sum it up, my problem is if you build through the draft, you don't do that with 4 picks. I didn't mind the strategy the last two years, accumulating picks, drafting guys to meet needs. This year feels very different. We pissed away our 6th and 7th on Dan Feeney and N'Keal Harry? I get they are low round draft picks, but if you're going to bring up Mahomes, I can bring up Brock Purdy. There are gems to be found that isn't someone other teams have already proven aren't worth it. How are you getting he will have a full stack of picks? Your optimism. How am I getting he might trade away a bunch? My pessimism. Who's right? Probably neither of us. I will be thrilled if I'm wrong. I WANT to be wrong.
I'm waiting until after the draft to say anything. There's lots that's happening now, and I don't want to comment until I know how it all falls out. Maybe the pieces make sense once the whole comes together. Maybe they're more patchwork bullshit. Both are totally possible right now. My concern is and remains what Poles' priorities are. The Bears need a veteran center right now. They could've drafted a guy last year, but went with Stevenson at CB instead. Now, I love drafting Miami players, and I've got no qualms with taking Stevenson in a vacuum. But you don't build a team from the outside in, and Poles still looks like he's trying to do that three years in. We'll see how thing shake out. I have the same fears that it's going to go the way we're used to, but I'll wait and see.
Best case scenarios usually are optimistic. Let’s not get it twisted my point was the floor of that deal IMO still looks pretty good. Unloading draft picks like leaves? Sweat! Allen! Come on man he’s not pace throwing picks away to move up for trash players. Poles drafted 10 players last draft. So what’s it? Does he cast off picks like leaves or does he cherish them? Or is he flexible and is willing to do what he feels will better the team. Like using the picks to draft players some years and using picks to trade for players other years. Is turning last years 1 into Moore, Wright and the number 1 this year plus another 2nd next year not success? Is turning this years 2nd into Sweat not success? Is locking up JJ to a deal that is sub 20 mil average not success? Where is the long list of fuckups? The o line is still a problem. Progress was made but not enough. Let’s see how it plays with a new OC. Hell it looked a lot better when Bagent was behind center. It’s not inside info. It has been reported by different outlets including ESPN that the Chargers approached Allen, Mack and Bosa about reworking their deals. Mack and Bosa said yes and Allen said no. Mike Williams was already cut. At this point the Chargers were moving on. They put Allen on the block and he was traded. Yes if Allen shows his age and sucks this season or is hurt it will go down as a shit move. Maybe it’s just me but adding one of the best rout runners in recent history to help a rookie QB and maybe even a rookie WR seems like it might have some upside As of right now the Bears own a first 2 seconds a third a fourth a fifth and 2 with round picks for the 25 draft.
Fields to the Steelers for a conditional 6th, could be up to a fourth based on playing time. Remember when people thought they could get a first??
I don’t even want to go on x right now. All you guys who are in the Chicago area check on your friends who were in the Poles is keeping Fields camp.
Wow. A lot of people overestimated Justin’s value. A 6th in 2025 that can become a 4th if he plays 51% of snaps.
WTF. I never thought it would play out this badly, even with my low expectations of Poles and this team. Fire Poles!
Yeah the rest of the league didn't value Fields as highly as the Bears but even those same people appear shocked that that's all Poles could get for him. What an embarrassment this organization is.
Poles is a horrible GM, obviously. There was absolutely nothing wrong with being patient and waiting till after the draft and even till the next major injury happens before pulling the trigger.
I figured they would get a 3rd at best, but I didn't think they'd settle for a 6th. Jeezus. Poles fails to put together an OL simply because he doesn't try, keeps a coaching staff that's in over their heads for a full year despite the obvious train wreck, and then completely throws away a QB for less than what a backup OL cost him a few days earlier. Like I said, I'm going to wait to see what the offseason looks like when it's over, but... there's a reason why people are down on it so far. Ouch.
Oh rob, like arguing with a brick wall here. I'm not blasting him and changing my avatar to remove the "might", but I'm not also a mouth breather who's in love with him. Again, the bipolar nature of Poles is what is *frustrating*. Last year he drafted a bunch of players, and got value, that was all good, I said that? This year he's tossing them away. This doesn't feel like it should be hard to grasp? LOL, you cherry pick the 3 things he's done well, which I already agreed to, but I've already said where he's fucked up. I'll even add Brisker/Gordon to the maybe good pile. The fuckups though: 1. Retaining Eberflus - this is not a small problem! It is pure hope that Waldron can take over the offense and make it special while this moron is still captain of the ship. 2. Not addressing the issues in BOTH trenches (Center being especially egregious) 3. Yes, fucking Claypool. You cannot gloss over how bad this was, with Miami's forfeiture this was a first round pick! 4. Just maybe, only getting a 6th for Justin? I'm not sure if I should put this in the fuckup pile, or the mid pile, because like Claypool and Mack, he did at least get something in return. Unknowns that could very well be fuckups - too early to tell: 1. Bates, Allen. There are countless mid moves he's made too. I don't even know what you're trying to argue here, that Poles is great? You can slob his knob all you want, I am definitely not there. His moves this offseason are questionable. You love them. Cool, we'll see how it plays out. Again, I hope to eat crow. Time will tell. You have optimism, I don't. Good for you, but that is why you are the rose colored glasses wearer! These are all great moves, if they pay off! Again, I hope he uses them. He has the tools to do something great.
Oh I am heading over to reddit now, that is going to be amazing. There were so many people who were deluded into thinking Poles wasn't even shopping him, so much for that. Sam Darnold got more. Trey Lance got more as a backup. His market is exactly what someone will pay for him though. There were Steelers fans on Reddit saying this would happen, and I really didn't think it was possible. And yet here we are.
Always fun to see the national media mock us: Justin Fields trade grades: Steelers earn high mark after acquiring QB from Bears for 2025 sixth-round pick
