Sorry to move to this one and skip @SAS posts.. I am just so tired of talking about DW, for now, I will just read what you are all talking about on that subject. Not ignoring you SAS, or anyone else, I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts, but man is it exhausting being disappointed in something that should be joyous. @Willie You bring up a great point. Other than alienating teams that might not call if they think the only option to acquire Baker is giving up a first rounder, you have to aim high, don't you? Unless you have an asset that already has several parties that are open about wanting him, you are fishing. However, I think everyone, from these boards to the national media are forgetting something... There are 32 teams that need starting QBs. Seattle and Carolina are not the only teams that need an upgrade. To just talk about the teams that are desperate is leaving out a whole other side of the NFL. Let's look at all 32 teams: Arizona Cardinals - Kyler Murray, not in the market Atlanta Falcons - Marcus Mariota, should still be in the market and may feel differently once he is in mini camps. There is a reason he can't find a starting gig. Baltimore Ravens - Lamar Jackson, NOT in the market/Division Buffalo Bills - Josh Allen, NOT in the market Carolina Panthers - Sam Darnold, definitely needs an upgrade Chicago Bears - Justin Fields, NOT in the market Cincinnati Bengals - Joe Burrow, NOT in the market/Division Cleveland Browns - Deshaun Watson Dallas Cowboys - Dak Prescott, NOT in the market Denver Broncos - Russell Wilson, NOT in the market Detroit Lions - Jared Goff, SHOULD be in the market, but they are cheap and can't afford to move Goff in any direction this year Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers / NOT in the market Houston Texans - Davis Mills, Need an immediate upgrade, but already didn't want Baker in the trade, so...Look at Garoppolo Indianapolis Colts - Matt Ryan, NOT in the market Jacksonville Jaguars - Trevor Lawrence, NOT in the market Kansas City Chiefs - Patrick Mahomes, NOT in the market Las Vegas Raiders - Derek Carr, NOT in the market Los Angelos Chargers - Justin Herbert, NOT in the market Los Angelos Rams - Matthew Stafford, NOT in the market Miami Dolphins - Tua Tagovailoa, up for debate, probably not in the market Minnesota Vikings - Kirk Cousins, NOT in the market New England Patriots - Mac Jones, NOT in the market New Orleans Saints - Jamieus Winston / Taysom Hill, should be in the market, but they are out with the Winston signing New York Giants - Daniel Jones, should consider them a viable candidate New York Jets - Zach Wilson, NOT in the market Philadelphia Eagles - Jalen Hurts, NOT in the market Pittsburgh Steelers - Mitch Trubisky/ Mason Rudolph / Dwayne Haskins / Rookie /Doesn't matter - division rival San Francisco 49ers - Jimmy Garoppolo / Trey Lance, NOT in the market Seattle Seahawks - Drew Lock/Geno Smith, MOST LOGICAL trade partner, unless they feel strongly about a rookie candidate Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Tom Brady, NOT in the market Tennessee Titans - Ryan Tannehill, NOT in the market Washington Commanders - Carson Wentz, should be, but with the trade it's extremely doubtful. Teams still in need of an upgrade, even after some moves this off season: Atlanta Carolina Detroit Houston Miami New Orleans NY Giants Seattle These are all teams, that imho would benefit from having Baker Mayfield over their current starters. There are others I would debate, but their starters are too new to take on the competition like: New York Jets New England Patriots Philadelphia Eagles There are others that will need a QB very soon and he could end up on their team in 2023 if a trade isn't worked out: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Pittsburgh Steelers Washington Commanders 6 teams that he could immediately help in 2022 6 more teams that could be effected in 2023 if he isn't moved to a team in 2022 and/or sign a long term deal before next free agency. Here's the kicker for the Browns and another reason they won't simply cut him like some suggest.. a) He will get paid $18.86 in 2022 whether he is on the roster or gets cut...It will also be on their salary cap as an active player or dead money. b) if they cut him, he immediately becomes a free agent. What would happen to this franchise if they cut and paid him his 5th year option, he signs with the Steelers, they go to the playoffs and Watson gets suspended for the entirety of the 2022 year and the Browns win 6 games? They would lose 100's of millions of dollars when the dust settles.
Dolphins are building something. It's up to Tua now. I can't believe $30M per year for a WR, but I guess that's where we are. Wow. That's QB money.
No doubt. My first thought was that GB didn't get enough for Adams. Maybe they should call the Raiders and ask for a couple more picks, in light of recent developments. lol!
Speaking of wide receivers... Barring a pick and Baker for a Tyler Lockett or D.K. Metcalf from Seattle, the Browns are probably done adding a ton of talent at the position until maybe that Day 2 pick? So it would seem they're counting on DW to "elevate" the play of guys like Amari Cooper, Donovan Peoples-Jones, and Anthony Schwartz. I wondered how much he elevated the play of DeAndre Hopkins... Hopkins (2013 - 2016 avg.): 140 targets, 79 receptions, 1,122 yards (14.2 YPR, 8.0 YPT), 6 TDs, 56.5% catch rate Hopkins (2017 - 2019 avg.): 162 targets, 105 receptions, 1,371 yards (13.1 YRP, 8.4 YPT), 10 TD, 64.7% catch rate Hopkins (2020): 160 targets, 115 receptions, 1,407 yards (12.2 YPR; 8.4 YPT), 6 TDs, 71.9% catch rate 2013 - 2016 was some dark times... (end of the road) Matt Shaub, Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer, Brandon Weeden, and Brock Osweiler... just to name a few. In 2020, Brandin Cooks stepped in for Hopkins and Davis Mills took over. Cooks' lines: 2020: 119 targets, 81 receptions, 1,150 yards (14.2 YPR), 6 TD, 68.1% catch rate 2021: 134 targets, 90 receptions, 1,037 yards (11.5 YPR), 6 TD, 67.2% catch rate The only guy to play with DW and elsewhere for any sizeable length of time was Kenny Stills. Equated for games... Stills (New Orleans): 73 targets, 52 receptions, 862 yards (16.5 YPR), 4 D, 71.% catch rate Stills (Miami): 90 targets, 50 receptions, 769 yards (15.5 YPR), 8 TD, 54.8% catch rate Stills (Houston): 55 targets, 38 receptions, 521 yards (13.8 YPR), 4 TD, 68.9% catch rate I dunno man... I'm not seeing an "elite" lift in numbers here.
Only if they send their first (2) picks from Miami to move up. Miami's pick is 29 and 50 should get them in the 16-19 pick range. Net haul would be Olave and 4th in 2022, 4th and 5th in 2023. Or they take (2) WRs to make up for Hill's production, say a Jahan Dotson (similar to Hill actually) and Christian Watson or George Pickens.
Tyreek Hill, the NFL's highest-paid receiver (equated for games): w/Alex Smith: 103 targets, 75 receptions, 974 yards (13.1 YPR, 9.4 YPT), 7 TD, 72.3% catch rate w/Patrick Mahomes: 147 targets, 97 receptions, 1,375 yards (14.2 YPR, 9.3 YPT), 12 TD, 66.0% catch rate Elite lift in numbers.
Mike Williams, equated for games: w/HOF Philip Rivers: 74 targets, 43 receptions, 730 yards (17.1 YPR, 9.8 YPT), 5 TD, 57.5% catch rate w/Justin Herbert: 117 targets, 68 receptions, 1,043 yards (15.3 YPR, 8.9 YPT), 8 TD, 57.9% catch rate Chris Goodin, equated for games: w/Famous Jameis Winston: 100 targets, 66 receptions, 998 yards (15.1 YPR, 10.0 YPT), 6 TD, 66.1% catch rate w/GOAT Tom Brady: 138 targets, 107 receptions, 1,270 yards (11.9 YPR, 9.2 YPT), 8 TD, 77.3% catch rate Or literally *anyone* who played with Aaron Rodgers and is now playing elsewhere. Stefon Diggs, equated for games: w/Kirk Cousins (DW's equal): 138 targets, 94 receptions, 1,219 yards (13.0 YPR, 8.9 YPT), 8 TD, 67.9% catch rate w/Josh Allen: 170 targets, 118 receptions, 1,422 yards (12.0 YPR, 8.4 YPT), 9 TD, 69.7% catch rate
The Hopkins improvement from 2017-2019 was pretty much on par with the Hill improvement with Mahomes. How is one elite and one isn't?
Friendly reminder that Alex Smith w/Tyreek Hill in 2017 produced the following stat line: 341 of 505 (67.5%), 4,042 yards (269.5 YPG, 8.0 YPA), 26 TD (5.1), 5 INT (1.0), 104.7 QB rating DW's career avg: 373 of 550 (67.8%), 4,577 yards (269.2 YPG, 8.3 YPA), 33 TD (5.9), 9 INT (2.1), 104.5 QB rating
I'm not denying DW isn't better than Case Keenum, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiler, and Ryan Mallett... might want to peep his numbers with Kyler Murray (who's not a Top 10 QB) to see another lift.
Meh, I don't see the fairness in comparing 3 years with one QB against 1 year with another. We all know one year flukes happen. If compared evenly, Hopkins' year with a sophomore Deshawn Watson (2018) was without doubt better than his year with a sophmore Kyler Murray (2020). I get some of you don't like his character, but why is his talent now under question. Kyler Murray is not better than Deshawn Watson. Watson is probably the 2nd best QB in the AFC. Now for me, where my biggest issue with all this would be, if I were a Browns fan, lies elsewhere, specifically the front office. My question would be whether or not y'all can win it all this year, in 2022. Because if not, Watson's 55M cap hit per year starting 2023 until the end of 2026 will mean losing talent in fututr years. I'm sure KC knows how much Hill helped them and Pat, but they had to trade him as they couldn't afford to give him what he wants. And that's considering Mahomes' cap hit will never go above 46M
For me, it is ALL about his character. If it wasn't for that hanging over his head, I would be supporting this move. Not just HIS character, but that of the Owner, front office and coach as well.
There are other scenarios. Browns can bonus out some of the salary to help get something in return. Would require Baker to participate but if he has a destination (like Seattle) that he wants to go to and it helps make that happen he probably agrees.
Agreed, but they will still need compensation to do this. What other reason do they have? They are sitting on a QB that will most likely miss around 8 games this season, why not have a Baker Mayfield to play those 8 games rather than a Jacoby Brisett? This is PROFESSIONAL football. Baker needs to swallow his pride and play football if he wants a contract next year that is worth while. He still has an opportunity to win that contract, even if it is with the Browns. If he sits out this season he is going to make around $15M next year, and not get paid the $18.5M this year... He needs to not only prove his skill set, he needs to show there are no ill effects from surgery. If he does that NOW, then he can get a starters size contract next off season.
After everything that's happened you really think they'd let him back in that locker room? Zero chance. He's getting moved some how, some way.
You must have missed some of my earlier pages, then. He's a clone of Kirk Cousins and I mean that in a disparging way.
Sure, for my fantasy football team. DW's career winning percentage: 0.518. DW's career postseason winning percentage: 0.333.
