2019 early predictions sure to go wrong

I actually had Moon and Elways on wrong sides when I typed that. I would reverse those two.

 

I tend to disagree. While I think year(s) like that are certainly outliers, I can't draw an arbitrary line in the sand saying "this many and no more."

 

Understood. That particular example would definitely be an outlier and probably won't ever be seen again at that position in the NFL.

 

But you can draw a line once you look at the era, the position, and the players and decide who is elite and who is just really good, no?

Like with those 8 QBs. No doubt all of them were spectacular. I would have been more than okay with any of them wearing a Bears uniform.

But is Warren Moon on level with Montana? Or is Aikman in the same ballpark as Marino? I'd say no. I think you can draw a line between them.

I'd put it this way. Dominique Wilkins was really, really good. Elite? No. Not in an era that also had Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, and James Worthy. In my book Nique sits behind those guys and isn't elite.

 

Not exactly Lym, you are minimizing the tackle position by only naming the LT here and leaving out RT...thus 32 players vs. "3 times as many WRs". There X, Y and Z WRs, so if you are going to talk specifically about LT, shouldn't you talk specifically about one particular WR? There aren't more than 32 at any of those 3 positions starting.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, just pointing out, it isn't apples to apples.

 

While there are receivers that play inside and outside and so on....typically when you look at receivers you don't talk about so and so being the best X or the best Y. Sometimes you specially only talk about slot guys...but more often than not you are talking about the position as a whole.

 

Because;
a.) The basic responsibilities of a LT are significantly different than that of a RT. They are not interchangeable on a play to play
basis.
b.) The basic responsibilities of an X receiver is the same as a Y and Z receiver. Get open. Catch the ball.

I am fully aware of the incritrate differences of the X, Y and Z receiver positions. Just trying to keep it simple to avoid writing a "War and Peace" length post.

 

Going back to @AxeMurderer 's post regarding the 8 QB's in the NFL in 1994 for just a second . . .

Using my own personal criteria, only 5 of those 8 make the 1st cut. (All-Pro selection). From 1993 to 1997, only Young, Favre, Elway, Aikman and Marino were named to either the 1st or 2nd team All-Pro squad.

Of those 5, only 2 were named as an All-Pro for 3 or more consecutive seasons. Young (93, 94, 95, 96, 97) and Farve (95, 96 and 97).

Two more had 2 consecutive seasons. Aikman (93 and 94) and Marino (94 and 95).

That takes (for 1994 and later) Moon, Kelly and Montana out of the discussion. Obviously, Montana would make the cut when he was still with the 49ers, not so much with the Chiefs.

 

Which franchise has had the most elite players? I know that the Steelers have had a least 15 maybe 20 off the top of my head.

 

Not sure but the Bears have the most Hall of Fame players.

 

Who cares? And how can you place a number on it if the term "elite" isn't even defined?

 

That's being pretty simplistic...

a.) How is it significantly different than, block the man assigned to you?
b.) I only say that in a.) because you oversimplified this position group.

If you are saying the basic responsibility of a WR is to catch the ball, then you must also simplify the basic responsibility of ALL offensive linemen to blocking.

I'm not opposed to this way of thinking (the simplification of the position responsibility), just the actual comparisons should be of equal value, don't you think?

 

No, I don't think that. If I did, then the value of a QB would be equal to that of a Field Goal holder.

 

Agreed - there are absolutely "levels" (for lack of a better word) of elite. I would take Montana over say Jim Kelly 8 days a week, even though I consider Kelly to be an elite QB. There are absolutely "levels" (for lack of a better word) of elite.

And Lyman brings up an interesting point below - while I think EVERYONE here would put Joe Montana in their Top 3 all-time QBs, was he necessarily elite in 1994?

Great stuff here today.

 

No, it's still relative to their individual positions...

You were stating that there are way more WRs in the league than there are LTs...While true, there aren't way more WRs than O-linemen. There aren't way more X-WRs than LTs...etc..

There aren't way more any individual position, than any other individual position.

You aren't saying Anthony Munoz isn't elite, but Jerry Rice is, because there are more WRs than LTs...Munoz is elite because he was the best LT of his generation, maybe ever..same as Jerry Rice.

I'm failing to see the point...Are you saying that in a certain group I.E. LT with a smaller pool of around 32 players, then you will only have 2-3 "elite" players, where in a POOL of 90 WRs, you should elevate that number of elite to the top 15?

If that's the case, I disagree. I think there can be periods where no matter what size the group is, you might only have 1 elite player, and vice versa, there could be a period of time where you have 6 elite players, no matter the pool size, they are still elite.

I personally believe it has to be an established domination though. Being the top of your position for 1 year doesn't make you elite, it means you experienced a really good year for what ever factors into it. If you are at or near the top of your class in 4-6 years(not necessarily successive), that puts you into an elite category.

 

Whatever, Irish. If you want to cut a stream of piss that finely, knock yourself out. I'm not going there.

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone...

 

Now you know how a lot of us feel when we read some your posts.

LT/RT aren't equal. I realize that lining up at X, Y, or Z on the field as a receiver isn't equal either. But how many guys in the league line up at all 3 during the same game and get moved around a lot?

How many LTs move over to RT or vice versa in the same game or even the same season without it being attributed to injury?

You seem to want to argue something that doesn't need an argument.

 

It's crazy how so many Elite WRs have lost in the SB this millennium. Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, Steve Smith, Jerry Rice.

 

I don’t even think Antonio Brown played in the SB . At least not on offense.