2018 Season | The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

Unless there is an Oklahoma player (maybe Marquise Brown?), then Dorsey has been at the Sooners last two games for one purpose...watching Lincoln Riley.


In the end...I agree

I believe it will either be Gregggg Williams, IF they can go on a 4 game win streak here...or another NFL retread. Your layout above if that's the case would be excellent in my opinion. The question I would have is, if Arians is coming in, why the need to make Greggg's son full time coordinator. He could be the assistant HC as well as being the coordinator....Then the succession...Why would Greggg be the assistant HC, but Kitchens be the expected successor to Arians?

Otherwise, I would welcome Arians if Dorsey has his mind set on bringing in a retread NFLer.

 

THE GOOD: (how about "really really good?)
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-browns-nick-chubb-on-pace-for-historic-rookie-campaign

^^^Chalk that as awesome. I'm a big PFF guy, and I'm willing to bet John Dorsey is too...The Browns really had themselves a draft last April. Austin Corbett aside, Dorsey rocked it..

THE BAD: The inevitable rookie growing pains. Predictable as they are, it's just part of football. The really good teams we've played (Chargers, Texans, Chiefs) have exposed them.

THE UGLY: I don't think I've ever seen a QB throw an 80 yard TD pass, only to have it called back on a penalty, and then come back three plays later and do it AGAIN, to the SAME WR, only to see him, fumble as he's going into the endzone. smh.... THAT was painful, and qualifies as ugly all day.

 

I like it. Even if we can't make it work out with Williams, and have to seek DC elsewhere....I think the Bruce Arians/Freddie Kitchens combo could work extremely well.

 

I think the job is McCarthy’s to take or turn down. Your owner will press for him. Dorsey and McCarthy were both part of the Green Bay organization at the same time. I’m sure they are talking already. I’m not sure if it’s the best move for the Browns, but I’m sure it is the most probable hire for a HC.

 

We are assuming Dorsey is enamored with McCarthy...being a part of that organization might have given him insight to a reason NOT to hire him. He's already had an assistant coach come out and say that they will have to hire a coach that will make Aaron Rodgers accountable, then was promptly fired for saying it...But, I don't want another Hue Jackson that doesn't motivate this team to be great.

Give me Gregg Williams, before giving me a tired retread looking for a paycheck.

 

I’m not saying it’s what you guys should do, just that I have a feeling that’s what will happen.

 

I like the Arians idea, with the continuity of keeping Williams as his Asst HC, but there are a couple of questions I have.
Will Gregg be OK with that? I mean he may very well be getting interviews with other teams.
Are we OK with Blake as our DC? Not much to stand on there IMO, so far.

As a fan, I'm most interested in keeping Gregg Williams, who IMO has done an excellent job in taking control and keeping his young team focussed, energized, and accountable. I'm not ready to name him the HC today, but just as Dorsey told him "these last games matter". Keep showing me how you can handle adversity, and stiff competition, and we'll talk.

Whether he's HC or Asst HC, or remains DC isn't as critical to me as his presence in keeping this headed in the right direction.

If he doesn't get the HC job, can we offer him something attractive enough to stay, and that's where Asst HC seems to work, given some assurances of a short apprenticeship, cause, I don't think Gregg is going to turn down HC jobs otherwise.

 

TopDawg you pointed out Kitchens as the prospective HC in waiting, and I wasn't even thinking that, but I do believe the Kitchens / Mayfield collaboration is really working. Coming from RB coach to "interim OC" is a big step and getting name the full time OC should be enough, whereas I'm less convinced about Williams being satisfied with DC only.

If this year finishes out with 3 more wins, we have something in those two guys we'd be hard pressed to improve on with any certainty. What I like about SAS's arrangement is the opty to capitalize on Arian's depth of NFL knowledge, mentoring and leading the team, while we maintain the key guys who put this young team on track.

Now should we drop to 2 wins, then the McCarthy possibility gains ground, with Williams being seen as a very good DC, maybe not ready for HC. Williams may be persuaded to stay and build his D and his resume, for a HC position down the road, but with less oppty as HC in Cleveland.

Kitchens is another matter. He will probably be getting calls too, but I'm not sure too many teams ready to name him OC yet, even though he may very well deserve consideration. Possibly some offers for QB coach and such, but OC. I don't know.

 

Could the argument be made that William's D has been disappointing? A lot of resources were spent in his direction, and there are positives to be sure, but did we get all we could have? I think it's fair to ask.
On the other hand, can anyone say the same regarding the job Kitchens has done? Too small a sample size, but you gotta wonder if there aren't a number of DC's out there who could get as much from this talented group, if you don't think Williams is ready to be HC, is he expendable?

 

I don't know that I would call it disappointing. It's the style that is developed to slow down the scoring if today's high powered offenses due to current rules.

It's basically a defense designed eliminate big plays and create turnovers, with disregard to yards gained. The theory is, the yardage doesn't win you games.

I think the points really need to come down, but I think they are headunh in the right direction.

 

Irish, I've been thinkin the same. Between 20s,focus on impact plays, but keep em out of the endzone makes a pretty good strategy, as long as you can do the second part well.

Imagine the record we would have if Baker continues to make redzone visits into TDs at the rate he did in Cinci. Well OK it was Cinci.

 

Sounds a lot like "Bend, but don't break".

That concept has been around a while.

 

That is a fair question. As @Lyman said, the "bend, don't break" defense that has been around for a while was objectively awful back in the day when (1) the rules didn't so heavily favor the offense, and (2) dominant defenses could make you a legitimate contender. However, it needs to be in vogue now because it finally is the answer.

The Top 5 defenses in the NFL right now are: Baltimore (7-5), Buffalo (4-8), Jacksonville (4-8), Chicago (8-4), and Dallas (7-5). That's a combined 30-30, despite leading the NFL in points allowed and yards allowed.

The Top 5 offenses in the NFL right now are: Kansas City (10-2), Los Angeles Rams (11-1), New Orleans (10-2), Pittsburgh (7-4-1), and Chicago (8-5). That's a combined 46-14. Defensively, those teams are ranked 27th, 19th, 13th, 16th, and 4th, respectively.

Just as the fundamentals of offensive football are shifting in the NFL, the defenses need to shift as well. Your nickel package is the default (based on snaps played) for nearly every NFL team. Linebackers need to be able to cover, versus rush the passer and rack up tackles. A short 3-4 seasons ago, a large majority of NFL teams ran a "3-4 defense"... today, very few run a true "3-4 defense". Gregg Williams' team hemorrhages yards but generates turnovers - that's the new formula. What they need to improve at is getting off the field in obvious situations (third and long) and locking down in the red-zone (still in the bottom third of teams in allowing red-zone touchdowns).

 

Per the above discussion, Gregg Williams seems to be one of those guys who's a better coach than coordinator. The team is feeding off his attitude, but his defense is not nearly where it needs to be - as you noted, despite heavy investments on that side of the ball.

It's been 15 seasons since Gregg was last a head coach... I assume he's learned a lot in that time.

On the flip side, he's been a defensive coordinator since 2004 (minus the two seasons he was suspended), but he hasn't had a Top 10 defense since New Orleans (2011) and has only had a Top 10 defense five times in 20 total seasons.

He's a reverse Romeo Crennel.

 

I've always liked Bruce Arians as a potential HC in Cleveland. This is not the first time we've discussed him. I like his style. He's a gambler, but he's no dummy. When he broadcasts games you can hear that depth of knowledge. And he's not afraid to call something out. If he sees a stupid play, or something he completely disagrees with, he goes into detail about why, and what he would have called for. The guy is a true offensive guru that has HC experience, and he's worked well with Freddie Kitchens in the past.

Seems like the world is convinced we are going after Mike McCarthy...Honestly, that doesn't excite me near as much. Yes, he worked 7 years with John Dorsey, but I don't know if that makes him a lock. A lot of good candidates....IMO, the fact that McCarthy only has one SB ring is a negative on his resume, considering who his QB has been throughout his time in Green Bay...

 

Keep in mind, TD . . . That same world was convinced we were taking Sam Darnold at #1.

Just sayin'.

 

In no particular order, my top 3 HC scenario's for Cleveland;

1. Gregg Williams. I'd like to win out, make the playoffs, and then just keep everything the same for once....

2. Lincoln Riley - Something tells me this guy is the favorite. No doubt his relationship with Baker is key. He's done nothing to quell the rumors, and I think he's very interested....IMO this would be a very crafty hire.

3. Bruce Arians - and it's really close between he and Riley. If Bruce was 20 years younger this would be my slam dunk favorite, but he has stepped away from the game, and he's talked about retirement on many occassions. I'm just not sure how much he has left in the tank...If he's a full go, this would be a great hire.

 

This is something that has my interest piqued and I'll likely be talking about it in the tomorrow's podcast (got a question about the Browns/McCarthy).

The idea that Cleveland has already broken a couple conventional norms leads towards the idea that it could be really difficult to get a solid feel on what they will do this off-season.

 

True. Including me.... I thought it was gonna be Darnold....When Dorsey says he "goes dark" that time of year, he wasn't kidding. He had everyone guessing, and until draft day, nobody knew anything.... Having the owner in the stands at Darnolds pro day, chatting it up with his parents, had me almost certain it was gonna be Darnold. That was a nice touch in his little game of deception....

 

My top 3 right now?

1. Gregg Williams. I hate to beat the front office consistency horse but its been proven time and again to be a real thing. Look no farther than the coaching tenures at New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Baltimore and (to some degree) Cincinnatti.
2. Bruce Arians. I look at Arians much like a "Bridge QB". He certainly has enough left in the tank to develop a coaching staff that can make a seamless transition when he does decide to hang 'em up for good.
3. Mike McCarthy (and this is a distant 3rd). He only makes my top 3 because of his past working relationship with Dorsey.

Lincoln Riley isn't even on my radar (and neither is Urban Meyer). We often talk about how long it takes for players to acclimate to the pro game. The same has to apply to the coaching staff. IMHO, we're so close to becoming a serious, consistent playoff contender it would be a shame to interupt that progression so a head coach can acclimate to the pro game.