I don't think it even qualifies as an era...Delhomme to Cleveland was the biggest of many mistakes made by Holmgren, and we ALL saw it coming a mile away...smh. But Delhomme to Carolina WAS a success....as was Hasselbeck to Seattle...That was the point...
Only recent example is Matt Schaub, really. He's a good example too, because he was traded from Atlanta to Houston (for two second round picks, coincidentally). Houston went 2-14 and 6-10 before acquiring Schaub. They improved to 8-8 his first year and second year, 9-7 the third, slumped to 6-10 with Schaub having a good year statistically (and Arian Foster leading the league in rushing), then 10-6 and finally making the playoffs, but by that point, injuries had already started to pile up and ended in I.R. Tyrod Taylor is a little bit mixed... he was a back-up who flashed as a first year starter with a new team but slumped in his sophomore season and looks to be on the outs, so you have to wonder if a team is already giving up on him... is that really a success? The list of backups who've moved to other teams and failed is much, much longer. It's so difficult to find one QB, let alone two, that a franchise letting a backup go must a future HOF'er in place.
Jimmy Garappolo isn't the only back-up QB that may be had via trade. A.J. McCarron is also rumored to be on the table in Cincy. Thoughts?
If I recall correctly . . . Delhomme WAS the starter in NOLA. They brought Brees in to replace Delhomme and Jake became the back-up. Hasselbeck I'm admittedly a little fuzzy on. You may have a point with him.
Trubisky at #12. No brainer. I actually give Watson the edge over Trubisky due to college production and his ability to rise to the challenge in big games, but the cold shoulder to the Senior Bowl was a big red flag for me. Even if it wasn't a snub to the Browns (it was, IMHO), it was definitely an admission of not wanting to be put in a situation where he wouldn't look his best - namely, taking snaps under center, running a huddle, a pro-style playbook, etc. Mitch, on the other hand, has talked at length about his love for Cleveland, his desire to play for the Browns, and I don't see any signs of not wanting to be here in him.
What's the cost? Give me McCarron for a fourth rounder and I'm okay with that. I don't know that I'm willing to part with much more than that, though. I dunno... tough to picture this as the face of a franchise...
I read somewhere that McCarron wants crazy money, and it will be an uphill battle for Cincy to trade him, because no team will be willing to sign him to the kind of extension he wants...Personally, I would never consider trading for a guy that can't beat out Andy Dalton, regardless of his absurd contract demands...Didn't McCarron skip some team functions he was supposed to attend his rookie year because he was filming some stupid reality show with his hotty wife? I'm not a big fan, but it does worry me that he has ties to Hue in Cincy...
Sorry, success goes a long way in my evaluations...Watson is a winner, proven, tried and true. He also commands an offense. His decision making is the only thing holding me back from actually getting behind him as a first round prospect. For what it's worth, Trubisky would be my second option as well. I really am not in the corner of Jimmy Garoppolo, but that's just me...and ironically, I liked him coming out of college, albeit at a 3rd round grade...he was still one of my favorites in that draft class BECAUSE I felt he would be available later in the draft. I couldn't get behind any 100%, but settled on pushing Johnny Manziel and was happy when the Browns drafted him. I also liked Bridgewater....never liked Bortles, we had some "discussions" about Bortles on here. Still no way I am paying #12 overall for Garoppolo...Now I am hearing reports it might be more like (2) 2nd round picks to get him. I wouldn't do that either... Honestly, as stupid as it sounds, SAS clued me in on something I didn't know before...Garoppolo's small hands are an issue for me. Go ahead and laugh your ass off, whatever..I just don't think he will be a consistent passer in this league. My opinion.
It was a tough call for me, but if one of my options is only spending #52, I'd likely lean that way and cut a deal for JG.... Like most of us, I'm excited about the non QB names we could walk away with using picks #1, #12 and #33.....I'm assuming we take Garrett #1, and lose out on Trubisky. Just can't see him making it to #12, but like SAS mentioned, if he did, that would probably be the best scenario this young team could ask for. The more I think about the number one pick, the more I'm convinced we should stay put and take the pass rusher. I've got a good feeling that this kid from A&M is the real deal... If Garrett is as good as advertised, we will have the best pass rushing Cleveland Browns player in my lifetime. That is too awesome to pass up. The way he checks all the boxes, it's like the guy might as well start getting his speech prepared for Canton. Need I remind anyone that, in my lifetime, this organization has only selected one guy that wound up in the HoF. (Ozzie Newsome)......Besides that, when was the last time anybody feared the Browns pass rush? Seriously? I'd say the drought on that has been every bit as long as the QB search. Garrett is about as sure of a pick as there ever was, and we can't let that get away...
Before anyone says it, yes I know Joe Thomas will be in the HoF someday....lol! He doesn't have the jacket yet though, and the point is, we haven't hit many draft day homeruns....This is going to be a truly epic draft for Cleveland that we will look back at fondly for years to come, and it starts with future NFL sackmaster, Myles Garrett...Just thinking about the Browns having a lightening fast edge rusher that sets the tone is exciting....
TD, we have been agreeing lately, but I can't agree w the best pass rusher title...I was looking at Garrett and I don't care how many double or triple teams u see in a season u CANT total 33 tackles in a season...also his sack production has dipped...how bout the guy who just broke Reggie White's record 4 career sacks...that's a player on the rise...Garrett has the measurables but mayb not the heart or desire...I can't answer that but like I said 33 tackles shows me something
It comes down to the player for me TD...I don't like Garoppolo, so I feel we can still get an impact player at #52... Here is how I look at this QB field, as much as you HATE comparisons, I will take it one further and give you what I feel is a floor(which is what I think Lym was giving, because let's be honest, in most cases the floor is where these QBs end up.) and a ceiling comparison... Jimmy Garoppolo: Floor; Mark Sanchez Ceiling; Joe Flacco Deshone Watson: Floor; Colin Kaepernick Ceiling; Drew Brees Mitch Trubisky: Floor; Brian Hoyer Ceiling; Carson Palmer Taking into account all attributes of the QBs, not just physical or comparable stats or college backgrounds, etc... Garoppolo is a more quiet, get rid of the ball quick and hope for the best type QB. Trubisky is more cerebral, survey first, pick the best read and hope it was right Watson is a play maker, but his decision making is going to drive you crazy at times, but he is the undisputed leader of not just the offense, but the team. Watson will make you pull your hair out in the first Qtr and you'll want to buy him a beer in the fourth Qtr...That is why I would choose him over everyone else...I hate to say this, but he is Johnny Manziel without ANY off field drama. I would even go so far as to say TD...If the Browns are HELL BENT on drafting a QB with their first 3 picks, no matter what...I would back them to take Watson #1 overall. His upside is so much higher than everyone else's imho. If we are going to make the jump at QB in 2017, my bets would be on him. All that said, I would still rather build the team and take a QB in the future...his decision making is still a huge hurdle for me as far as making it at the next level.
lol! Yep, love the comparisons. If I was forced to make comparisons, I guess I'd see it this way: Deshon Watson floor: Aaron Brooks ceiling: Russell Wilson Mitch Trubisky floor: Tim Couch ceiling: Aaron Rogers Jimmy Garoppolo floor: Vince Evans ceiling: Tony Romo Obviously I think Trubisky has the highest ceiling, but all this really tells me is there is a wide spectrum, and it's hard to determine who will thrive, who will flop, and who will fall somewhere in between...If it was just about the measurables, evaluating these guys would be easy. Clearly, much more goes into the equation when assessing quarterbacks. And unfortunately, as fans, we aren't privy to much of it, so we make our best educated guesses...
I can appreciate the comparisons TD, especially with Trubisky and Garoppolo...we see Watson a lot different I believe. I think Watson's greatest attribute is his undisputed leadership qualities, which I don't see in Aaron Brooks or Russell Wilson. They are quiet leaders that make those around them follow. Watson is a more in your face type of person all together, not Cam Newton in your face, but like Brett Favre in your face. I like leadership in my QB, loud leadership...that is rare these days
I agree with what you are saying about Watson's leadership. He had crazy production at Clemson. So his method definately works for him, but I'll have to disagree on your Russell Wilson take. He's a born leader IMO. Maybe not the yelling and screaming type ala Dan Marino, but some leaders don't have to do that...The story that speaks volumes to me is when he made the transfer to Wisconsin for his senior year. After only being a part of the team for a couple months through spring ball, Wilson was elected Captain by his new teammates. That's impressive. He took control immediately, just like he did in Seattle...Matt Flynn was supposed to be their guy and he never got on the field...Wilson just seized the opportunity and took over that team before game 1. That's extremely rare for a 3rd rd draft pick that's coming into a situation where the team just signed a high dollar free agent to be the starter...RW never flinched and nobody ever heard from Flynn again... I guess leadership style really doesn't matter to me as long as you win....If you wanna be that firey intense in your face style like Marino, that's fine....But the calm cool Joe Montana style works too...Individuals lead in different ways.
He might not get much love here, but I don't think that's the case on the large scale. Honestly I would be shocked if we could get Garoppolo for our pick at #52. There's too much talk of all this love that Shanahan has for him, and the fact that he's perhaps the best OC in the game isn't helping matters. Plus I think there is interest from at least 3 other teams... I really do see a lot of Tony Romo in JG... With the help of Hue Jackson to bring his game along, there is plenty of reason to believe he could continue to develope and be every bit as good as Romo, which by Cleveland standards, is through the roof.....If we could trade a late 2nd rounder for a 25 year old Romo, hell yes. Sign me up for that all day over spending #1 on a rookie QB prospect...That way we still get Garrett at #1, and we have premium picks at #12 and #33 to use however we see fit...
Bill Polian just said (on Mike & Mike), that Jimmy Garappolo is light years ahead of the rookie prospects and that would be the direction he would go if he were in Cleveland. He said he thinks a second rounder is the worthy compensation, but it this day and age, they might have to use the #12 pick...Hmmmm. Where have I heard that before?
It was bound to happen sooner or later but I have to disagree with you on this one Sammy. I can't see ANY redeeming qualities in bringing Colin Kaepernick to Cleveland. This guy has a ten cent brain with million dollar wheels. He's an embarrassment to a franchise just waiting to happen (again). Give me a choice of only Kaepernick or Garoppolo, I'll take Jimmy every time.
Well, for starters... I'd prefer we take neither. As to the Kaepernick/Garoppolo debate... Kaepernick has shown the ability to compete in the NFL (58 starts, 88.9 QB rating, two post-season appearances). Garoppolo has not (2 starts, 1 injury). Even on a crap team last season, Kaepernick's numbers weren't bad - better than every QB we have save Cody Kessler. Kaepernick would already seem more logical of a fit since the head coach (who reportedly preferred Kaepernick as a rookie) likes to run a zone-read with his QB and favors mobility in and out of the pocket. Colin Kaepernick costs us no draft picks once he opts out and likely could be signed here for a lot less than his current contract is paying him, something along the lines of Robert Griffin III ($7.5M). Jimmy Garoppolo is only available because the Patriots won't pay his asking price, which is likely somewhere in the Brock Osweiler range ($18M). Again, at the end of the day, my preference is neither of these players. But gun to my head, I'm taking Kaepernick 25/8 because he's a cheaper, more-proven commodity.
