Spare me. "He completed 72.7% of his passes against a good defense." He threw underneath 24 times, more than one-third (nine) of these didn't make it past the LOS. He completed 20 of these (83.3%). He threw over 10 yards nine times... he completed just four of these (40.0%). His 3.03 TD% against Arizona was below their season average (3.84%), likely because he was asked to manage the game. There's nothing wrong with that... but I'm not giving up anything above a fourth rounder for a "game manager". He padded his meager stats against a pretty awful Dolphins' pass defense (15th in yardage, 25th in scoring). Again, he was money underneath (13 of 17 - 76.5%) but just average over 10+ yards (5 of 9 - 55.6%).
So... we don't want to give up picks for a Brian Hoyer clone (Garoppolo), or A.J. Mc-Can't-Even-Beat-Out-Andy-Dalton, and we don't think any QB's are worth a first round choice either, and the next tier require advanced coaching / support systems in place... Our list of options is wearing ever more thin. Looks like we're down to Tony Romo and, if released, Tyrod Taylor. This is why I drink. Top 5 Draft Prospects T-1. Deshaun Watson T-1. Mitch Trubisky 3. Pat Mahomes II 4. DeShone Kizer 5. Josh Dobbs Top 5 Free Agents 1. Tony Romo (if released) 2. Tyrod Taylor (if released) 3. Colin Kaepernick (if opts out) 4. Mike Glennon 5. Josh McCown (already released by the Browns) *Kirk Cousins removed since he's expected to get tagged Top 5 Trade Options 1. Kirk Cousins (likely two first round picks) 2. A.J. McCarron (likely a mid-round pick) 3. Jimmy Garoppolo (likely a first round pick) 4. Tom Savage (if available) 5. Sam Bradford (if Bridgewater is healthy) Okay... solve the QB problem. Go!
Of all the possibilities, I think the most likely candidates are Mitch Trubisky and Jimmy Garoppolo, and I'm not against spending big on either one if that's the guy Hue Jackson wants.... If Trubisky is the guy, it will likely cost the #1 overall pick. If it's Garoppolo, perhaps #12 gets it done, but who knows?....Either way, the price is steep, but there is no way Hue Jackson can have another disaster season. He has got to find a QB, and all indications are, he doesn't believe he has him on the roster right now. So I expect an early move for QB from the Cleveland Browns.... Sitting back with what we got isn't a realistic option.
Well... He's got me.... No way on Garoppolo, not even for that #51 overall, single pick. I don't think he can last 3 weeks in the AFC North. We need to find someone that can hold up. If we are hell bent on getting a guy in 2017, I would rather take Pat Mahomes at #12, than give up #52 for Garoppolo.
If he takes Garoppolo, imho, we are still searching for a QB in 2 years...If he takes Trubisky, he sure as hell isn't relying on him in 2017, it will be 2 years before he is ready to start. It's a double edge sword, you can't win without a QB. On the other side, you can't win with any QB without the proper support group. I want to keep building that support staff, and then see where we stand. We have an excellent opportunity with historical cap space(literally, there has never been a team with more cap available as the Browns have right now). For a second year, we have a lot of draft ammunition to make this roster better...even more so since 5 of those picks are in the top 65, when nearly every team won't have more than 2 at that point. Everyone keeps saying, there is no way the Browns win more than 2 games if they don't go out and get a QB... Well, what if the Browns go out and get say: The number one edge rusher in the draft, Myles Garrett #1 The number one TE in the draft, O.J. Howard #12 The number one Center in the draft, Pat Elflein #51 The number one safety in free agency, Eric Berry The number two guard in free agency, T.J. Lang Take your big AFC North QB #33 Pat Mahomes(although I'm starting to think he will be gone in the first round) Get CB help in this deep, deep draft at #65 Tre'Davious White THAT ^^^ I would feel a heckuva lot better about helping us garner wins, than sending the #12 overall to New England for little baby hands Garoppolo.
[notify]IrishDawg42[/notify]... When this plan, "New Browns Order", was put into play back in 2015, there had to have been a vision in place. Part of that vision obviously included Robert Griffin III playing markedly better than what he showed last season. That said, did (or does) a 1-15 season shift the focus or change the overall vision? Are we talking about and being linked to a "Hail Mary" option like trading for Garoppolo simply because we went 1-15 and most people don't think Haslam will let his group endure another awful season? And, if so, is that worth it? Is the goal of "win some games", or is it to "win a Super Bowl"? Maybe Garoppolo can win you more games than a rookie or any of the guys on the roster today (I don't agree, but many think so)... but is this team prepared to be a consistent playoff contender already? Are we only a few pieces away? To me, the plan has to continue to be to built the "cockpit". To set the foundation of a team (that we're just now entering Year 2 of the build, by the way) that can compete for a title during the brief window that most NFL franchises get.
(BTW... I'm agreeing with you... I can't seem to get the "Agree" to give you a +1, so...) [notify]IrishDawg42[/notify]... +1
Wow. You must really hate the plan Mary Kay came up with last week...She thinks we will take the developmental Trubisky at #1 , AND trade whatever it takes for Garoppolo.... For the record, both Mahomes and Trubisky are 6-3/220. So both built for our rugged division...If it's just prototype size we looking for, Davis Webb should be on our list...I really think you are making way too big of a deal about Garoppolo's hand size. Is there scouting reports that claim this is an issue for him? In spite of less than ideal hand size, I think JG is an intriguing possibility for Cleveland. He brings a lot to the table...What I don't understand is, if you were high on him coming out of college, why so negative on him now? He's been nothing but a true pro. Were you expecting him to unseat Brady?
Until you get a top notch QB, teams cant win(meaning SB) in this league....bottom line and nothing can change my mind
As for hand size, that's why I took Davis Webb off my list as well..They measured at the Senior Bowl and his were 9 1/8, smaller than Garoppolo. Say what you want, but there just aren't any grand success stories of small hands being able to play in cold weather. I would take Trubisky, if it were in the 2nd round, and obviously he isn't going to be around. As for the "record" on "size", it is being reported he will actually measure in at just over 6'0", not the 6'3" that UNC had him listed. Does that mean his weight is also overstated? I don't know, I just don't think there is enough experience to be taken top ten, let alone #1 overall, which is most likely where he will have to be taken. I have a LOT more confidence in Jonathan Allen and Myles Garrett than Mitch Trubisky in helping this team win football games, that's what it boils down to.
Now, I'm not a Garoppolo guy (my team is also looking for a QB), but you can't look at the throw charts given above to evaluate his performance. Brady would have an almost identical chart. That's their system. It's why Brady is so successful, and it's why every other QB looks good, in his stead. There are reasons not to like Garoppolo, starting with the fact that the Pats have no problem dumping him and looking for another successor in Brady's last few years. But unfortunately, you can't just look at his numbers/pass chart for the evidence - their system dictates that, not the QB. I haven't watched him enough to have my own opinion. But given that it's an awfully big judgment call, and the system invalidates a lot of the arguments for/against him, you shouldn't give up much for him. Don't let the Pats take advantage of yet another team with their QB bullshit.
Not basing opinions on the charts, it just validates the reason for his "great numbers" in his 6 quarters of starting play. Unless you are going to copy the Patriots offensive game plan completely (at which point Cody Kessler becomes just as valuable as Jimmy G), you simply can't take his numbers and assume he is the next great QB in this league.
But somehow it's okay to assume he's simply a product of the unstoppable Patriots system and not worthy of anything higher than a third round pick? That's where you lose me... You can study his body of work. He has more than 6 quarters. You look at EVERYTHING he has done since being drafted and make an assessment. He has the 6 nearly flawless quarters from last season that we all saw, but there is also film from his three pre-seasons. He has shown accuracy and good decision making... How does he prepare each week? How does he interact with teammates? Is he a natural leader that takes control of the huddle? Does he study film? Does he show a passion for the game? Size? Arm talent? SO much goes into it... You know how I feel about QB evaluations. As amatuers we just aren't privy to enough information...Though "simply" ruling JG out over hand size, and declaring he can't play in a northern climate is nonsense....He's never been known as a fumbler. The guy has played successfully at Eastern Illinois and with New England. Not exactly tropical regions...I'm not saying he's the answer, but I can absolutely see why the Browns might be interested. I love the fact that he's got a three year head start on the other prospects, and he's learned from the best in the business. Most folks just don't have the same level of confidence in Cody Kessler , is what it really boils down to. If he could survive the first month of the season, it would be a surprise to many, and it would be a big stretch to assume any of the rookies are going to be ready to start this year...That's why JG seemingly becomes one of the best options, and why many are associating him with Cleveland...He's ready to step in as starter from day 1..
GASP! Are you suggesting Tom Brady is a dreaded system quarterback? As Irish pointed out, it was more to reign in the chatter around some "elite" numbers when he's throwing 70% of his passes fewer than eight yards. Garoppolo does not have the ideal build of an NFL QB. He does not have an exceptional NFL arm. He does not have top-notch mobility. He's a smart quarterback with a quick release... that's it. He's Brian Hoyer 2.0. Sorry, but we've already got at least that on the roster in Cody Kessler. Scheme aside, the wide receivers and tight ends for the Cleveland Browns are not anywhere close to on par with that of the New England Patriots. That quick release only goes as far as the scheme and players will allow it to. With deeper, longer-developing routes and younger, less-mature receivers, any QB in Cleveland is going to need to hold the ball longer. That's why things like hand size, mobility, and lack of overall size are more important because behind a line that's also nowhere near as talented as the Super Bowl winning Patriots', there's going to be more hits and more need to improvise.
OPTION ONE Player: Jimmy Garoppolo, a Cody Kessler clone who happened to back up one of the greatest QB's of the modern game. R?sum?: Two starts, one injury, four touchdowns on a Super Bowl winning team that had more weapons in his games than the Super Bowl itself (e.g., Gronkowski, Collins). Cost: Multi-year starting QB contract, #12 overall, possibly a future second round pick. OPTION TWO Player: Tyrod Taylor, a mobile QB in the mold of what Hue Jackson sought after in Robert Griffin III. R?sum?: 28 starts, one injury, 47 total touchdowns, plus an extra 1,148 rushing yards on an average, run-first team that lacked any semblance of a competent #1 wide receiver. Cost: Multi-year starting QB contract. Conclusion?
