2016 NFL Draft - The Quarterbacks

Fixt it for Ya.

 

Not sure how, but I left off my boy Andrew Luck, who definitely deserves to be on there...

Andrew Luck 4,239/29TD/15INT/7.0/3-3


So, my personal list would be as follows:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger

Then...
Joe Flacco
Andrew Luck
Russell Wilson
Cam Newton

Top ten...

 

Anyone notice anything intriguing about that list?? How about ages when the next season begins...

Tom Brady 39
Peyton Manning 40
Aaron Rodgers 32
Drew Brees 37
Eli Manning 35
Ben Roethlisberger 34

Then...
Joe Flacco 31
Andrew Luck 27
Russell Wilson 27
Cam Newton 27

So there is a very real chance Joe Flacco could move into that top 5 category in the next 3-5 years with retirements on the table for 3 of the top 6 over that period, and Eli/Ben not far behind.

Now, you have to take into account up and comers and new draftees...someone like Blake Bortles on the cusp? How about...well, I can't really think of any others..

 

well when you pose it like that, Irish, I guess you have more of a point. I was trying to say he is more average than outstanding, but yes, I would love to have even the 10th best QB in the NFL on the team I root for.

 

Funny you should mention Bortles as an up and coming top 10 QB given your views when he came out.

I would add Bridgewater and Carr to that list. I think that both these young QBs will continue to develop and have their teams in position to make the post season regularly.

I?m not sure which of the top two guys I prefer. They both have upside, but they also have a long way to go. I just hope that with this reboot, the Browns get it right.

 

By your analogy of the "beggars can't be choosers" approach, any quarterback in the NFL would be an improvement over what we do (or don't) have.

And my point isn't that I don't want a Joe Flacco. It was that we are not a team who can develop a prospect like Carson Wentz into a Joe Flacco.

You're not drafting Joe Flacco. You're drafting a guy who compares to Joe Flacco as a prospect out of college. You're talking about a guy with a very below average read of the defense (at a very inferior competition level) who'll need multiple seasons of learning from the sidelines.

You're talking about a project the Cleveland Browns cannot afford.

More than likely, neither of them are.

 

Is that a right now list? Not sure how Peyton Manning could be in anyone's Top 10 "right now".

 

I thought about letting this slide, but then . . . . HELL NO!

Spoiler

*YAHOO*

 

First, SAS, Irish did sum up what I was more or less trying to say earlier. You and showstopper both misinterpreted me. I thought the claim that a top 5 pick usually is and/or should be (I don't quite remember what you said) was nonsense. I was just using a recent example immediately off the top of my head as an obvious contradiction. I apologize for any confusion.

Well, so then you're not drafting a QB this year. Because outside of Cook, and maybe Goff, that's what's out there. And you'd have to convince yourself that Cook doesn't have a very limited ceiling.

 

Arent the Browns about to cut a QB that lacks leadership and has shown some ability? There's no point in adding the same thing with a calm social life (Cook).

 

My point being that, if you're not looking for a project, you're not finding that QB in this draft. There may be a few future NFL QB's in this group, but you're gonna need to take your time and a gamble to find out which ones.

 

I'm guessing that the same thing could have been said about probably 60 of the last 65 drafts.

 

I absolutely agree with that sentiment. That's why I don't see the opposition to a player that'll need a season or more on the bench before they're ready. With McCown and a team that needs some real overhauling, I would think the time would be fine for that. Whether or not Wentz is the right guy is a different discussion, but I don't think it's the time he needs to season that may preclude him.

 

Again, the problem is availability...

Sorry, Sam, but we cannot live by the past mistakes. You don't skip over a project because the guys that have been fired in the past couldn't develop talent.

Every player in this draft is a project, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Many of the posters on this board want to draft Joey Bosa to play OLB, a position he has never played before...He's a project.

Some have said Jeremy Tunsil, but if he is the pick, he will be playing RT in a quite possibly a scheme he has never played in before...a project.

I don't think there is a name in this draft that would fit so perfectly with the Browns schemes that they would not be deemed a project...

Now, you can argue some projects are simpler than a QB project, but a project is a project and you can never predict how well a player will adapt to a new role..NEVER.

If the argument is that the Browns will not take a QB at #2, then I concede and agree to take the best available player at 32 overall...possibly Bosa, or trade down..However, I am convinced it is going to be a QB, thus I want the one that I personally feel has the highest ceiling in this draft. Imho, that is Carson Wentz. I think Goff can be a fine QB, but I just don't see ceiling..obviously we differ in that analysis.

I would rather take an extra year for a guy I think can develop into a top ten guy...rather than take a guy that I think can hover around #20 at the end of his second year, or into that second year, but most likely that is his ceiling. At the end of the day, what ground is made up?

I see Goff as a Matt Ryan, good consistent QB, but I don't see the tools to ever be consistently in the top of the league.

I just see something in Wentz that I believe can be cultivated. That is in his arm, mechanics, his IQ (reportedly), his on and off the field demeanor, his leadership skills, etc. I see a face of the franchise...

Something admittedly I didn't see in Bortles..but he certainly had one hell of a year! let's see if he can repeat it regularly now. They have some pieces in Jacksonville, he should have every opportunity.

All of the Flacco stuff came on the heels of your words...

Remember, I compared him to Manning...only as far as mechanics are concerned, mind you.

Pretty cynical, and based on history could be very true....

But, when it comes down to it...The Browns are most likely going to place their bets on a QB...So imho, it better be on the best bet out there...imho, that's Wentz.

If they pass on a QB all together at #2, I am still hoping that Cardale Jones ends up on our sideline. I would really like to see what he can develop into with a professional coach leading him into the future.

 

If we're contented to take a project, why not do what most teams do and pick a guy in the middle rounds? You mention Cardale Jones. For me, he's four times the prospect (from a purely potential) that Wentz is, should go somewhere in the late third, early fourth, and could be a phenomenal QB one day.

 

Goff is, by almost every account, the most pro-ready guy. I'm not naive to the fact that any rookie QB is going to be a "project". For me, Goff already has checked so many of the boxes for things that translate well to the NFL game.

Moreover, I feel -- as most seem to -- that the Browns are indeed using No. 2 overall to address the QB position. If we're going to invest that much in a player, I'd like to be sure he can start Day 1 if called to. Most would probably argue that Andy Dalton (who somehow missed Irish's list) has a limited ceiling.

However, his team has gone to the playoffs in four or five consecutive seasons, he was in the early discussion for League MVP, and boasted the second-best rating last year. Like the likely pick the Browns will make, Dalton has started every game (minus injury) since being drafted.

 

A lot of this is going to come down to your definition of "franchise". I don't like that word because it's open to so much interpretation. Technically, if you have a QB you believe in, even if he's terrible, he's your franchise QB. In Cleveland, we have several "franchise QBs", until they're not.

If we're ranking quarterbacks, I think you break them into tiers.

So no, I don't see Jared Goff as the next Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Cam Newton or Russell Wilson (my first tier). These guys transcend the position and elevate their team, regardless of talent around them.

However, those guys also a very, very rare.

 

I hear you and agree with you on many of your thoughts (not quoting because I'm on my phone at the moment). But I do think Cook is a lot more pro-ready than Goff, though Goff is my favorite QB prospect, from what I've seen so far.

 

I would be fine with Cardale Jones, I am just resigned to the fact the Browns will not wait and take him..I am convinced they will be taking a QB at #2.

 

Not lost on me in this article is the fact that most talent evaluators do not consider any of the QB's in this draft class to be worthy of Top 10 consideration.

In fact, Draft Wire (who produced the article) have Goff with the highest grade, and it's a Round 2 grade.

This begs the question: we all assume Cleveland is taking a QB at No. 2, but what if they don't?

Another assumption, based on the heavy presence of analytics, is that they will try to find value in "unconventional" ways. One of those ways could be skipping QB at the top of the Draft.

Now, I do still think Goff will go Top 5 if Cleveland passes on him, I think it's very likely Wentz will go Top 10 and Lynch will likely go Top 15 -- again, due to the nature of over-valuing that position so much. I think there's another QB or two who'll get bumped into that first round (Cook seems like a logical choice unless he fails his interviews).

So, that gets us to the next phase of the question: is No. 32 too late to take a quarterback? You're definitely into the next tier of prospects because so many R2 talents are bumped into R1. You're looking at probably a Christian Hackenberg or Dak Prescott?

Dak Prescott, by many accounts, had a better Senior Bowl week (and obviously in the game) than Wentz.