:-* I've also read/heard where Goff=Matt Ryan Wentz=Luck I could go on but that would be pointless. The thing is that I am not sure who will become the better NFL QB at this point. With the right system and coaches both could do very well. Only time will tell.
I love how this is somehow a bad thing. Matt Ryan boasts a .587 winning percentage, career 64.3 completion percentage, 202/107 TD:INT ratio, averages 260.0 passing yards per game and has thrown for more than 32,000 career yards. Eww yeah, I want nothing to do with that in my franchise. This actually re-confirms my belief about Blaine Gabbert. The analyst who said that (Mike Mayock) touted Blaine Gabbert as the best QB prospect in 2011 and suggested he should be the #1 player selected. This was subsequently when I lost any and all respect for Mike Mayock. And re-affirms the Wentz/Gabbert connection. And unlike Ryan, Luck cannot complete over 60% of his passes (58.1 career), boasts the same TD/INT ratio (101/55), throws for slightly more yards per game (269.8 versus 260.0) and has a slightly higher winning percentage (.614 to .587) -- in a much, much worse division. Oh, and Ryan has been the clearly better QB in the playoffs. You're right here... the correct system is going to make or break both of them. So the question is... do we have the right system?
SAS, these are the Browns. Almost guaranteed to break your heart if you fall in love with one prospect over the other...I'm just sayin. If I'm gambling on one of these guys for Cleveland, I'd go Carson Wentz....That said, I was also all about Johnny... This really could be the year that all the speculation is completely wrong.....What would the odds be of BOTH the top QB's sliding down in the first rd? I think it's unlikely ONLY because of the desperate need of teams at such a critical position, but not completely out of the realm of possibilities...Goff and Wentz certainly does NOT have the same feel as Luck and RG3..... Did RG3 impress the Browns enough to let them feel comfortable with a trade down? Was his workout as good as Goff's? Wentz's? That's what we would all like to know...We have so many needs that there are a number of different scenarios I'd be okay with, and I just have no idea what they are going to do...Good cases can be made for so many different things....
Good bad or indifferent the point I'm trying to get at is that depending on which "so-called expert" you read/listen to you will find these guys compared to about half of the existing starters in the league. I see good and bad in both and try not to use others comparisons to make up my mind regarding which QB I'd like to see put on the Orange and Brown. As for Mike Maylox(not a typo), I take his opinions for what they are. *HIGH* And that^^^^^ my friend is the BILLION dollar question. I think Hue has put together a solid staff only time will tell how well they put it all together.
I know...I read an article somewhere that compared Goff to Couch, and mentioned some similarities and connections....Surely it was written by a terrified Browns fan....
I mean, my "gold star" player that I love the most is Braxton Miller. I was a Manziel guy very early on with Teddy Bridgewater as my No. 2. I went with Manziel because he offered the intriguing upside over the "safer" Bridgewater. The parallels between Goff/Wentz and those two are shockingly similar. Wentz's tape is flat-out bad (plus, there's very little of it). His draft stock is soaring due to interviews, perceived football intelligence, and a prototypical QB build. It's almost 100% projection. Goff is often ignored because he's the much safer pick who has 3x as much tape (and it's much, much more impressive) but who's being knocked around because he has "small hands" or a "slight frame" (hello, Teddy Bridgewater). Quite literally, the only knocks against him are those two things. He's easily the more cerebral of the two, more accurate, possess an NFL arm (out-threw Wentz at the combine), better pocket awareness, etc. What I'm saying is that I'm reversing field from 2014 and going with the "safer" guy because Teddy has worked out while Manziel has flamed out. No, but Luck has dramatically underachieved, based on his pre-draft hype and Robert Griffin's career was derailed by a serious knee injury. I don't see either of them being picked outside of the Top 10. In fact, I see teams making a push up to get those guys simply because they are the only legitimate first round prospects in this draft class. Hue Jackson talks about Robert Griffin like he's the son he never had. Unless the F/O decides the Goff (or god forbid, Wentz) can be the savior of the franchise, I don't see us going QB at #2. #1 - San Francisco (f/Tennesee): Jared Goff #2 - Cleveland: Jalen Ramsey, FS #3 - Philadelphia (f/San Diego): Carson Wentz #4 - Dallas: Ezekiel Elliott #5 - Jacksonville: Myles Jack Would not surprise me at all if that's how the Top 5 shake out.
Any top 5 that doesn't include Tunsil and Bosa might surprise me a little....But who knows? If Browns stay put and don't go QB, this is my guess...and it is a total guess..... 1. Titans: Laremy Tunsil 2. Browns: Jalen Ramsey 3. Chargers: Deforrest Buckner 4. Cowboys: Joey Bosa (though Elliot absolutely a possibility) 5. Jags: Myles Jack (if Big D goes Elliott, Jags would take Bosa) and that would really suck seeing Myles Jack fall to the Ravens......
There's some consternation about whether Tunsil or Ronnie Stanley is the better tackle prospect. I don't know it's a guarantee that Tunsil is a Top 5 or even the first tackle taken. In the scenario I posed, Dallas wouldn't have a need for an offensive lineman, hence the pick of Zeke (which would make him look like the next Eric Dickerson). If reports are true that the Browns want to trade out of #2 overall, they'd have to take less-than-market (in my opinion) and would be trading out with a team who coveted one of the defensive players. As to Bosa, my feelings are mixed. I'm not sure he's worth a Top 5 and so much of his game (again, my opinion) is scheme-specific. DeForest Buckner might be the better DE prospect.
If any trades are made within the top 2 of this draft, it will be because a team has deemed one or both of the QBs worthy. Trades to take any other position are very rare, and quite frankly, this draft is devoid of that player that rises above all others worthy of giving up future talent to acquire them. I understand devaluing the pick market...but trading out of #1 or #2 overall will definitely cost anyone outside of the top 5 a future first round pick...devaluation or not, that will be something that is required, short of giving up your entire 2016 draft to make the move, ala, Da Saints move under Mike Ditka, which STILL included a future first round to move up to #5 from #12...Again, I realize this is outdated, but those picks are still considered to have value. The #1 over all pick has only been traded ONE time without including a future first round in the deal...that was the first ever NFL draft and Jay Berwanger was traded for the rights to OL Art Buss, ironically, Berwanger didn't sign with either the Eagles or the Bears and he joined the Navy instead. The pick isn't the commodity, it's the players. If you have your choice of ANY player in the draft, or in the case of the Browns, possibly your second choice..it is worth more than just the mere trade down for what could amount an additional 35th or worse player in the draft. Now, with analytics coming into play, those picks may become less valuable to teams like Cleveland, but I don't think anyone in that Tennessee front office is willing to become the first team in NFL history to trade out of the top pick for low value. _________________________________________________________________________________ As for valuing Bosa as a top 5 pick...again, we are not just valuing the Cleveland schemes here.. He is extremely valuable to the Cowboys and Jaguars, both of which are in need of pass rushers in a 4-3 system and that, imho, pushes Bosa to the top of the draft board for both of those teams. For Cleveland, I won't disagree that Buckner would fit our needs better than Bosa, based on their college level skills. However, Bosa may be able to adjust to a 3-4 OLB, if he is, then he bursts right back to the top. I simply don't feel that Jack or Ramsey effect enough of the defensive gameplan as a whole to merit the #2 overall pick. Once those players are gone from the draft board, then yes, they become quite valuable. I think both Bosa and Buckner have a chance to effect a scheme, which could help the rest of the defense be better players. I will state quite frankly, imo, BOTH QBs will be involved in the top 5 spots of this draft, one way or another. If the Titans cannot find an adequate trade partner, the Browns will pick their top choice and the Chargers, Cowboys (if they don't draft him themselves) or Jaguars, will then trade out to either the 49ers, Eagles, or Rams for the rights to the other. Both guys will be gone by #5...This is the NFL and there will definitely be teams that covet them as future NFL players. So, imho, you take two spots off the top for the two QBs and go from there.
I think Buckner definitely is a better scheme fit for Cleveland than Bosa....Though I wouldn't have a problem with us taking either one... The player that intrigues me most is Jalen Ramsey.....If we took him at #2, it would be the highest that defensive back went in the draft since the Browns took the late Eric Turner in the same spot, back in the early 90's..... They say Ramsey is just really impressing the heck out of GM's and coaches in the interviews....Very high football IQ and very passionate about the game...I would love to see the Browns get him....I've heard the comparison's to Reed and Polamalu, but he makes me think of Ronnie Lott, with that ability to get out on the corner...Could be the new TOP DAWG...give him the #29! WOOF WOOF!!
Lott lined up all over the place too. Probably the best run blitz DB of all time.... We could make comparisons all day. I assume we in agreement that he's a stud prospect that would look good in the orange and brown.... If the Rams did decide at the final hour to offer Cleveland the pick at #15 plus both mid second round picks and a future #1, do you guys think that's enough? That's a pretty significant drop, but if looking to move down, that could be about it.....
That's kinda funny, because I personally would give #2 up for Polamalu or Woodsen in their prime...I would not give up #2 for Ramsey, I don't see the same player.
If I were in the Browns front office and the Rams offered; #15, #43, #45 and 2017 first round pick...I would immediately say yes and start setting my draft board up accordingly... #15 Laquon Treadwell/Darron Lee/Ezekial Elliot/Vernon HargreavesIII/Ronnie Stanley #32 Josh Doctson/Will Fuller/William JacksonIII/Emmanuel Ogbah/Paxton Lynch/ #43/#45 Any combination of : Vonn Bell/Keanu Neil/Jaylon Smith/Derrick Henry/Kendall Fuller/Michael Thomas/Braxton Miller If we did this deal though, I want two WRs in those first 4 picks! All of the above have a chance to be special players..
Ultimately I'd be pleased with this deal as well. Though if I'm GM of Cleveland, I'm going to ask for a future #2 as well. If they are committed enough to make that offer, a future #2 won't stand in their way...Walk away with a boatload of premium picks in this draft and be set up perfect for more of the same next year...
