I don't believe for a second they can "probably" get Goff or Wentz at #7...it's possible, but I certainly wouldn't say probable. Heck, the Chargers could take one at #3 with Philip Rivers almost opting to leave this year. In his current contract, the way it is written, He has set himself up to decide his future if the Chargers decide to leave San Diego. At 35, he may simply decide to retire next year if they leave. That was what he was projecting this year possibly if they moved the team. They could decide to groom the heir apparent while they actually get a chance as they are rarely in this spot to do so. The Cowboys have already been the topic of discussion for one of them landing there... And OF COURSE, the general consensus is that the Browns will still take one even after signing RGIII. So unless, the 49ers are set with Kaepernick by then, they could very easily be in a position where they will want to move up the board to get their choice of QB...If that decision is made..it will cost exactly what I put in that mock... And remember...it's only a mock...
Thanks and nicely done gents. I do think that the #2 pick could possibly be worth a king?s ransom in picks both this year and future. I?m not sure that I buy into the hype that Goff/Wentz are better than Winston/Mariota, but I have a feeling that neither makes it out of the top 10 possibly top 5. That said both Goff and Wentz could fall to the bottom 20, We all are aware that the Browns still need a QB, only time will tell if Hue and Company can get RGIII back to his Rookie form. Both SD, and DAL have aging QB?s that likely don?t have many years left in this league and they are in a good position to draft their replacements. So with that said and assuming not super trade offers come up. 2: OLB MYLES JACK UCLA Analytics say take BPA here and Jack is it. Immediately upgrades a less than stellar LB Corp. No significant trade offers are made (similar to what Irish described). 32: WR MICHAEL THOMAS OHIO STATE Steadily moving up boards. Has most upside of WR in this draft. Needs to be coached up and Saunders is up to the task. Should provide a solid #2 guy across from Gordon. Potential to be a #1. 65: RB DERRICK HENRY ALABAMA Hue salivates and Sashi practically mows Goodell down taking the card to the podium with Henry here. (Who knows how far he will fall, it is doubtful he falls this far) 99: C NICK MARTIN NOTRE DAME Solid inside guy with good instincts. Precipitates Erving?s move to RT and Solidifies the O-line. 138: QB CARDALE JONES OHIO STATE The signing of RGIII allows Hue to get his developmental guy here. 141: WR CHARONE PEAKE CLEMSON Injury concerns and small hands cause Peake to fall here. Should he get past those issues the WR group is looking much better. 172: DE SHAWN OAKMAN BAYLOR Big guy that will eat up space and serve as a run stopper. Not sure he?ll be a three down player, but time will tell. 173: TE BEAU SANDLAND MONTANA STATE My homer pick I know. Good hands, solid run blocker, had a knack for getting behind LB?s and Safeties. 176: FS TYVIS POWELL OHIO STATE Athletic centerfielder that might just find a spot in Horton?s D 223: K KA'IMI FAIRBAIRN UCLA Accurate kicker with big leg. Is anybody really sold on Coons long term?
Nice mocks fellas....I feel obligated to give the same input to Irish and Crex that I did on SAS's mock....I'm not sure you'd even get the chance, but IMO you would be very fortunate to get a shot at Cardale Jones in the 4th round.....Getting him at #138 in the fifth round looks great, but i'm not sure that's realistic. The word is that the top 4 QB's (Wentz, Goff, Lynch and Cook) will be gone inside the top 40 picks. Who do you rank next after those 4? It's a stretch IMO to even think he'll make it to #99....At least we all like Cardale as a prospect... Just curious...If Jones is there at #99 and ya decide to pass, what is the back-up plan if he goes between 99 and 138? that's a long wait for your QB prospect....
Here's the thing TD, we are all homers who feel like we can explain his failures in 2015. Not many scouts will look past those failures to even try to figure it out. If I am looking purely at 2015 film and trying to rank these guys it would probably go something like First Wentz Goff Lynch Cook (borderline) Second None Third Kevin Hogan Christian Hackenburg Fourth Dak Prescott Brandon Doughty Cardale Jones (borderline) Now if you take into account those 3 magical games in 2014/2015 season, you can let personal feelings creep in to vault him higher. His physical skills are mouthwatering, but in the end, not many scouts are going to paint a lasting impression (or base their reputation) based on 2015 game film. I love the kid, but in my honest opinion, I wouldn't put more than a $20 bill down that he will ever become a regular starter in the NFL. There are WAY too many unknowns. In fact, I would only want Cardale, if we are keeping 3 QBs on the roster... All that said...I still want to see what he becomes with some development in a pro style offense.
I certainly agree that you have to keep 3 QB's on the roster if Cardale is one of them....I just think the ceiling is potentially so high with him....If he lands with an Andy Reid or Hue Jackson QB whisperer, things could really flourish for Mr. Jones.... I rank him the 4th best QB on the board, even ahead of Cook..... ...and yes....I'm a tremendous homer. *SHADES*
Don't take my post the wrong way, I agree with you. Short of the top 3 QBs, the only other one I honestly want to try to develop is Cardale Jones. I don't really like any other QB in this draft ranked below those top 3 guys...But Jones has a HUGE ceiling, but truthfully, I just can't judge his football acumen based on what I saw in 2015.
He can't read defenses. His arm caught teams by surprise. Even Nick Saban stated that. He also had one of the best offenses in the country around him. He had a lot of speed around him. Im the biggest Buckeye honk you will find but to me he is nothing more than a 5th rd selection. I would rather have Hogan or Hackenberg than Jones. They throw a more accurate ball than Jones.
Yeah, it was amazing how good Hackenburg looked reading defenses...lol! Hogan might have a career as a back-up....Cardale has gifts that you can't coach.
Agreed after Goff, Wentz, Lynch and Jones I'd prefer to stick with the limited stable of QB's already under contract. I really wouldn't bother with any of the rest.
I'm starting to think that the Browns will NOT pick a quarterback at #2. All 1st round selections come wrapped with a team option for a 5th year. Players selected 1 - 10 automatically receive the average of the top ten salaries for their position for that 5th year. (Players selected 11 - 32 receive the average of the 3rd through 25th salaries at their position for that 5th year.) The team must exercise that option at the beginning of the 4th year. That means if somehow our two crystal quarterbacks (McCown and RGIII) survive 2016 the drafted rookie will only have, at best, two years to show he warrants that 5th year option. Even when he probably ends up with some starts in 2016, how can he be accurately evaluated with the supporting cast surrounding him. And that supporting cast will only get incrementally better in years 2 and 3. By the time that 5th year rolls around (2020) can you imagine how much $$$$ the average of the top 10 QB's will be? I think they will forego QB at #2 and either go with a player who's position earns a lot less or trade down past #11 and then pick a developmental QB with #32.
I'm starting to think this is a possibility as well, especially with the trade down but I wonder how weak of a price they are willing to accept. If a team like the 49ers wanted to move up and take Goff they would need to pay probably a 1st and third this year and a first next year. Would, or should, Cleveland take less (swap firsts this year, get a third this year and a second next year) to ensure that they still get a top 10 pick in this draft while adding 2 additional picks within the first 3 rounds (2016-17)?
I don't believe they want to stay in the top 10 of the draft because of the financial implications surrounding that 5th year option. This year (2016) I think I read somewhere that the average of the top 10 QB's is in the altitude of $18-20M. Forecast that out to 2020 and you are REALLY talking some crazy money for a guy with (maybe) 2+ years of on the field play. IF the Titans stay at # 1 and, in fact, select Tunsil . . . I can see the Browns staying at #2 and picking Ramsey. Then, they will damn sure list him as a Safety as opposed to CB. (Similar to the Saints with is Graham a TE or WR?) If the Titans do trade out of #1, then it's because someone wanted a QB and Ramsey is still there at #2. If, however, the Titans select Ramsey at #1 . . . all bets are off and the phone lines in Berea will be burning.
Titans trade out of #1 overall to someone who wants Goff. http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-b...l-outsiders-calls-jared-goff-best-qb-prospect
I think what Tim is saying is trade down, and take a different position, not QB. There is a pretty good possibility both QBs would be gone by #7. So you are looking at the average of the top ten of say a CB, LB, DE..etc. Not the astronomical QB #s. But, I agree Lym, that's a real possiblity. Now, to address Tim directly, I think the bottom line you look at is this... San Fransisco, #7 and #39 and next year's 2nd, not this year's 3rd Philadelphia, #8 and #77 and next year's 1st, they don't have a 2nd this year, so they will need to give up next year's 1st. Now if Dallas or anyone else ahead of the 49ers are interested in moving up, then you can start evaluating compensation accordingly..But if you get 2 negotiators then the value goes up. Otherwise...imho, you stay at #2 and select your best available option that you have concluded as a group.
Honestly I think that #1 overall pick is going to be way too expensive for anyone. I don't think the Titans take what I outlined above for the #1, so why would anyone pay more, unless they are convinced the Browns are taking someone they covet if they don't. I think the Browns will make their intentions clear that they want to trade down prior to the Titans going on the clock, which will hurt the Titans negotiating power. You can keep talking up that analytic study as much as you want, if you dig deeper into the study, Wentz had NO CHANCE to be considered because one of the major calculations was games played. That is why this one is so much different than other studies being talked about. It wasn't mainly perceived skill set and stats, it takes experience and leadership into major account. Cardale Jones wasn't even included in the study because he wasn't considered to have played enough games to get a calculation. As far a Wentz and Goff, we all know Goff has played twice as many games, so no matter how you feel about the skill set, Goff is the clear winner in this particular study. Anyone that didn't play 3 full years of ball is at a major disadvantage. Carson Wentz only played a full year in 2014 and half a year in 2015. I'm done arguing the QB issue, because quite frankly, I don't believe either are worthy of the #2 overall pick. I think there ARE worthy players and I am hoping they are picked when the Browns go on the clock. I think there are several that would be better picks, quite frankly, so I have no problem with a trade down within the top ten.
Well, it wouldn't really matter what they list him as. Its a bit easier to differentiate between a CB and Safety in the NFL than it is a TE and WR. His 5th year option value will be based on where he plays the majority of his snaps during the first 3 years. TEs routinely line up outside or in the slot like a receiver in today's NFL, but they are still considered TEs. A Safety routinely lining up outside in man coverage on a receiver would be far less common and certainly arguable by the NFLPA for him to be paid as a CB if it came to that.
Good point. Except that of the 4 free safeties on the roster right now, none of them are worth a shit and all of them have contracts expire at the end 2016. It shouldn't be too difficult (even for the Browns) to both list him as a safety AND play him as a safety.
I absolutely believe that they want to trade down....Whether or not they can find the right deal is the question.....Hue is blathering on about the top 2 QB's, because I think he wants somebody to make a move up to the #2 spot....But obviously, I'm just speculating...Going to be a million ideas floating around between now and the end of the month....Tis the season of lies....Gonna be a lot of smoke and mirrors.....We know nothing about what "moneyball" is thinking, or what the plan is in Berea. I know, we never really do, but with our new FO regime, this year feels like even more of a mystery than usual......Let's just hope we don't take Scott Hatteberg.
Irish, just for the record, we don't know with certainty that both Wentz and Goff will be gone by pick #7.....We just don't...Quite honestly it wouldn't be the shock of the century in my book if one of them did....
And if that's what they do, then absolutely, but I think you play a guy like that wherever you get the best value out of him. He's a tremendous talent, so is he more valuable on the outside taking away the other team's best receiver, or inside playing Centerfield? Its not like the Browns are loaded with great CBs...
