The affiliate thread

I a thread on affiliates would be useful. Whether it's a bench clearing brawl between GR and Rockford, a mascot going nuts on the ice, to celebrate AHL glass-pounding glory, or whatever.

Thought I would start with this:

ECHL and Central hockey league working on a merger.
More NHL teams are trying to control their affiliates or cutting costs associated with them.

Examples include:
Detroit getting sole affiliation with Toledo in the ECHL, Chicago getting ECHL affiliate in Indy
WPG moving their AHL franchise (and jets affliate) from St. Johns to Thunderbay
STL sells their affiliate. Vancouver positioning to get their own affiliate closer to Van, Minnesota moves their affiliate from Texas to Iowa, etc.

Now it appears Dallas and Gagliardi are doing to the same thing if allowed:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/08/08/6030613/stars-move-to-buy-their-ahl-affiliate.html?rh=1

 

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrRoYutxbzk[/video]
Leave the condor at home

 

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXwavC3gfoc[/video]

 

it will be a travesty if they aren't called the Bombers.

if all of the NHL teams are trying to move their AHL affiliates closer to themselves it should make for some fun cross country bus rides. the fan that got his shirt ripped undoubtedly deserved it. Manch-Vegas is an awful place, I went to school up there for 2 years. On a side note, I think the Monarchs are moving.

 

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrOXXAGkBxs[/video]

who the hell coached Gibbons before he turned pro? whoever it was should've taught him to stop being such a hun and pass the puck. This goal was in game 7 and wound up contributing to a 5-4 win.

 

The schedules are overloaded based on geography, for example Rockford had 44 of their 76 games against divisional opponents and I believe everything is in-conference but I'll have to verify that since so many affiliates have moved in recent years.

http://www.wmur.com/sports/push-on-to-move-monarchs-out-west/26353044#!bAzbAj
Much more noise about the Kings than the Sharks, it's been going on for years. I always thought SJ would make the move first but now my money is on the Kings. I have no idea if they would see value in buying a pro franchise to turn it into an AHL affiliate or if they would be able to persuade a franchise to enter the AHL for the purposes of affiliation.

 

I'm going to venture that it was a spoiled coach too used to getting high end talent, to the point that he was comfortable letting his skaters play with the puck like that.

 

have to think Sonny Milano agrees.

 

I didn't know he was going to be a cheatin' eagle next year.

 

its gotta be much better for the organizations to have close by AHL teams. Getting called up from NH to Southern Cali is too much travel and lag for the player.

Ive probably been to a hundred AHL games in my life and very few have been sold out, especially the ones in the watered down Mass. market. Worcester, Prov & Manch (close enough), Lowell, & Springfield are almost always half full w/ many of those seats filled by youth teams and people w/ some kind of voucher or another. No idea how these teams can even come close to turning a profit.

 

i guess he's still very much in play to jump to the CHL. BC isn't exactly holding their collective breathe. Im sure that a Milano loss drastically changes the roster but they're long term thinkers and seem to get over things pretty quickly. I remember being more pissed about Kobasew going back to Osoyoos (sp?) than the BC coach was at the time. Orpik & Kolanos also went pro early that same summer. Kobasew knocked up his gf after having 1 wildly successful NCAA year and went back to Jr B to be with her.

 

Screw the player, an NHL club like the Jets, Canucks, Sharks, Kings, etc. were/are unable to do same day call ups like most teams in the EC and a handful in the WC. Something to be said for being able to call up players a day before a game or in time for the morning skate instead of just throwing them on the ice cold. Always bugged me that so many teams had a geographic advantage that had nothing to do with their planning or management, but most clubs are trying to fix things themselves and are well on their way.

A few teams have their own tv deal and strong sponsorship, some markets do very well selling season ticket plans year over year. Corporate support is very strong in a number of AHL markets, relative to costs. Also to consider is the ownership of the franchise and ownership/lease of the arena. It's really tough to say which franchises are strong or weak in terms of ownership.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=AHL1941&sid=2014
Today, attendance means dick in terms of profit but it is a good basis for establishing where fixed revenue may come in at. Price per ticket is all that matters since computer models optimize ideal attendance in a given arena considering overhead, additional spending, parking, etc. I hate conversations that focus on a team's strength being awesome (TB) or sucking (FLA) because of attendance numbers more than any other factor. I digress.

 

The most compelling argument that I've seen against realigning the AHL with a western division is that while it will reduce travel distance between the minor league team and their NHL affiliate, it would significantly increase travel distance for AHL games. Of course, there is a lot more travel between AHL cities compared to travel between an AHL and NHL team.

I do not think that is the primary concern, I think that hockey wants to continue their grand experiment of expanding the footprint for hockey's fan base. In other words, there is more concern about the long term benefits of a stronger fan base than the intermediate benefits of having lower travel costs.

AHL President-CEO Dave Andrews is quoted saying:
"It's not all poppycock and it's beyond an idea, but it is still a work in progress and it's an ongoing process between the league and five of the western-based NHL teams, potentially perhaps even more than five.
"As you can imagine, there are a lot of moving parts to figuring out a way to relocate five teams out to the West Coast. We have essentially agreed with those teams on a framework in which we would see it happen, but there are a number of transactions that have to play out before it's going to happen. In terms of a timeframe, 2015-16 is possible. But a lot has to fall into place before that's going to happen."
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/06/dave_andrews_tells_marek_vs_wy.html

I think it's a matter of when, not if the AHL expands west. It may have a similar model as the ECHL has now - that is an Alaska-to-Florida league - the eastern teams do not play the western teams, so it is almost like two separate leagues.

To go back to the point about the long term strategy to strengthen hockey's fan base. We're starting to see NHL talent come out of such non-traditional hockey areas such as AZ, TX, SoCal, and CO. Giving the people in these areas an opportunity to watch the higher caliber of play in the "AAA" AHL would likely spur more of that. Meanwhile, I know Upstate NY, and it's not an economically robust area; yet they have six AHL franchises. This does nothing to expand interest in hockey, and it is not very helpful from a business perspective.

 

I expect that a catalyst for an overhaul of minor league hockey's alignment will be when the NHL places another team or two in the WC. During the lockout, there was a fair amount of speculation about the NHL expanding to 32 teams. (This would certainly help balance scheduling. It would also be highly appealing for those whose opinion counts the most - the owners that would vote to expand, and to share in fat expansion fees, [deemed to not be HRR]).

If there is a team in Seattle and one other western city then I believe there will be a big push to realign the AHL and ECHL.

 

can't do that with the whl, no room

 

i think the Beastie Boys said it best, "no... sleep... till... Moose Jaw!"

 

One for Arizona
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubsectionID=2&ArticleID=130532
Yahoo sports usually has some solid insight and does a pretty good job on this article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...-ahl--echl--and-chl-in-2015-16-091626868.html

about travel concerns associated with realignment, besides cost:

not all AHL players get the same amount of practice time because of some of the massive travel obligations. I'm still not sure if the Vancouver move to Utica was to save money, maximize development for the system, or just a stopgap solution until a permanent solution in a more favorable geographic location is attainable. I always thought the latter was the most important, but I'm less confident about that every few months.

Kaatz (Edmonton owner) conveniently bought up the Bakersfield Condors (ECHL california) in January after the were in their first affiliation year. They're another franchise not too happy about having their AHL affiliate where they are (OKC).

 

Of the WC teams west of Chicago, the only NHL franchises that DO NOT own their affiliate are:
STL (chicago), ANA(Norfolk) , COL (Lake Erie) , and PHX (Portland, ME).

I'm not sure STL is interested in buying an affiliate again, but I'm not sure about the other three. With all the ECHL movement and megers, finding new locations for AHL franchises won't be difficult if NHL teams are interested. Maybe a couple ECHL teams are bought by NHL franchise owners for the sake of turning them into an AHL team.

 

The move west by the AHL is inexorable as far as I am concerned. It will happen; the question is when.

The NHL may need to increase their support for their AHL affiliates as this will increase costs for the AHL clubs. Currently, for example, a team based in NYS could have a road trip to five separate teams and never leave the state. In a new continental league, teams are going to have to book much lengthier trips. The NHL teams cannot expect the AHL clubs to absorb those higher costs.

In the long run I believe this change will make the AHL stronger, and therefore more economically viable.

In the end, I believe the debate needs to be reframed a bit. This should not be a debate over reducing costs for NHL clubs by placing their AHL prospects closer in the event of a call up. The speed by which a team can move players up and down is the advantage the NHL will gain. Meanwhile, travel costs for AHL teams will increase on the whole. That will be offset by having a more stable franchise base in larger cities that can result in higher average attendance figures. In the interim, however, the NHL is probably going to have to subsidize the higher travel costs.

 

i agree Dan. it's more about building the fan base. an airline ticket from Maine to Phoenix? chicken feed by NHL standards.