Ravens vs Bengals Post Game Thread

Didn't see the thread up so I figured I'd start it to share some opinions.

First off, it's nice to get a win again. This was honestly the most "fun" I've had watching a Ravens game in awhile. It was actually an exciting game Now, let's get into it.

What I liked
- Jackson opened up the run game. Period. I doubt that will be a point of contention. We haven't had a 100 yard rusher since week 12 of last year. In fact, we only had 2 games with a 100 yard rusher last season.
- Jackson hit a lot of receivers in stride in the short and even intermediate game
- Contrary to the narrative, I thought Jackson threw well for a rookie in his first start***
- Gus Edwards did not play around. He was running straight ahead, one cut max
- Willie Snead carrying that one defender for a first down
- The defense actually making a freaking stop at the end of the game against the Bengals
- The run defense limiting Cincy
- Tyus Bowser got some playing time and got half a sack. I still think he can be good
- Jackson's poise after the INT. He didn't get rattled at all
- Also loved Jackson's ability to extend plays while still keeping his eyes downfield to throw
- Marlon Humphrey. Great stop on 4th down, and even with the TD allowed, it was great coverage and just a great play by the QB and WR.

What I disliked
- Marty calling back to back QB draws in the redzone. Another example of an OC out-thinking himself
- That INT. Rookie mistake
- Andy Dalton converting 3rd and longs
- Jackson not sliding
- Marty/John calling 20+ QB runs. I get it, he's dynamic. But you can't do that going forward
- I keep forgetting that Brandon Williams is on the team. Sam Koch recorded more tackles today
- Kenny Young quietly led the defense in tackles.
- Alex Collins did not benefit from Lamar being on the field.

*** Now this part I'm actually going to spend extra time on. There was talk about Lamar being a bad thrower in this game. The kid ended with a 68% completion percentage, and 7.9 yards per attempt. Both of those rank second for Baltimore this season. I'm not sitting here saying he's some great passer, as I honestly don't know how his career will be in that respect. And I already said in the game thread that I didn't see a lot of the first and second quarters. So I'm going to rewatch each of his throws and give my opinion on them, in detail as best as I can. Stay tuned

 

One of my favorite parts was the Ravens picking up a first down on 3rd and 17. I don't really recall the last time we've seen that aside from against our own defense.

Edwards just appears to be better suited for the offense and line. He picks a hole and runs down hill while Collins spends too much time bouncing laterally.

I don't really recall the receivers dropping any catchable balls.

 

Lamar Passing Discussion. I'll list out when each play starts to begin. I don't have All 22 so this will be done with a youtube highlight, so I'm only going off what they have.

1st quarter

4:39 - 1st and 10. Safe throw to Boyle at the LoS. Actually a little late and behind Boyle. If he hits him a second sooner and in stride, Boyle can turn upfield sooner. 4 yard gain
3:29 - 3rd and 5. Pulls a houdini act to avoid what I swore was a sack when watching live from almost immediate. Scrambles left and throws an intermediate pass (receiver 12 yards past LoS) but pass is deflected by the underneath defender who jumped to get the PD.
0:48 - 3rd and 6. Not immediate but quick pressure. Get wrapped up as he throws. Ball travels to LoS for a completion to Boyle. No gain.

In terms of throwing, this was a so so quarter. He had more completions than incompletions, but one was a little bad in terms of accuracy and another got deflected. 2 of 3.

2nd quarter

12:21. 2nd and 10. Throw over the middle to Snead on a crossing route. Ball travels 5 yards, hits receiver in stride. Snead gains another 4 1/2 yards.
10:33. 2nd and 9. Pass to Crabtree over the middle. Ball travels 8 yards to Crabtree who is between 3 defenders so can't be led on the throw. No yac.
9:22. 1st and 10. Play action roll out with a pass 1 yard behind the LoS to Boyle. Boyle is hit in stride which allows him to turn upfield immediately for what looks to be a 16 yard gain.
6:56. 3rd and 17. O-line gave some time, but a defender eventually got through. Jackson makes time by scrambling to his left and throws deep to Crabtree for an incompletion. The ball traveled 20 yards or so. This is a weird play because when you see Crabtree, he's failling to the ground about a yard and a half away from the boundary line. And you can't tell how far out the pass was from that angle.
5:02. 1st and 10. RPO run fake with a quick throw to Snead across the middle. Defender in good coverage. Snead hit in stride, but also tackled immediately. Snead catches it 6 yards past LoS and momentum carries him 2 yards forward with defender on him and hit by second defender.
1:56. 3rd and 11. Snead in the slot on the right, running a 5 yard curl(?). With defenders running in from the left, Jackson throws to the right of Snead for the completion. Snead fights for 3 more yards
0:19. 2nd and 6. Probably one of the most impressive plays of the day. Pocket collapsed and Jackson had to scramble big time to extend the play. Finds open area to scramble to his right and keeps eyes downfield. On the run but finds Brown wide open. Ball travels 14 yards to an open and stationary Brown and Brwn picks up another 9 yards.
0:08. 1st and 10. Just a quick sideline pass. Crabtree hadn't come out his break yet and I think Lamar just wanted to get rid of it to make sure they kick the FG

This was a pretty good quarter throwing the ball. 6 of 8 throwing and great ball placement for all 6 catches.

3rd Quarter
13:47. 2nd and 4. Rolled out when he probably didn't need to. Looked like he couldn't decide if he wanted to run or throw, ended up throwing. Had a man open, but couldn't get it above the defender between him and Snead. INT. Rookie mistake
11:22. 1st and 10. RPO fake with a quick pass over the middle on a seam route to Boyle. Low throw, falls into a "bad throw" category imo but Boyle makes a good catch. Ball caught 8 yards past LoS. Boyle caught it in stride, but off balance due to low throw and stumbled forward for another 6 yards.
10:58. 1st and 10. Had time. Didn't seem like anyone was open. Opted for a 3 yard checkdown which seemed like a bad option to me. Pass actually bounced off Alex Lewis' helmet for an incompletion.
5:05. 2nd and 17. Hits Snead up the middle. Ball travels 15 yards. Accurate throw considering Snead had a defender on the left and right side. Snead gets 1 more yard
4:37. 1st and 10. Throw away.
3:21. 1st and 10. Pass over the middle to Chris Moore. Ball travels 11 yards. This was a bad pass and well behind Moore. Similar to the Flacco pass from last season that led to an INT, but a little lower. Moore makes one of the best catches a Ravens WR has ever made on a bad throw and manages to gain an extra 3 yards.

This was a bad quarter throwing the ball with two plays being helped greatly by the pass catcher. 3 of 6 on the quarter with 1 throw away and 1 INT.

4th Quarter
14:28. 3rd and 7. This play is very similar to the play on the INT. He scrambled the same way and had to throw over a defender for the completion. This time he adjusted and got it over the defender for a completion to Andrews. Ball traveled 15 yards. Andrews picks up an extra 2 yards.
10:48. 3rd and 7. Hits Snead in stride across the middle. Ball travels 3 yards with Snead wide open with room. Snead muscles his way for another 5 yards

Not many attempts but both good passes in terms of accuracy. 2 of 2 on the quarter.

13 of 19 throwing. One was a throw away, so 13 of 18 when giving his pass catchers a chance. Of the 13 completions, he was bailed out on 2 of them after what I'd simply call terrible passes. He had a few that should be called "off" passes but those were all within his receivers catch radius that didn't require the super effort that the Moore and Boyle catches required.

Again, I'm not saying he's going to be the next Joe Montana, or even Joe Flacco. But I didn't see enough bad in this game to question his accuracy. Hell, out of 6 total incompletions, he clearly didn't see a defender on one, threw it off his teammates helmet on another, and had a defender make a good deflection on a third. If not for the defensive plays, those passes likely get to their target also. He had one throw that flat out didn't look like the receiver would have ever had a chance and that was the play Crabtree fell down.

 

Fist I'm going to say this. I really don't see why people are complaining about the Ravens defense. Let me show you why:
Stats entering into yesterdays game
YDS/G: Ravens 300, Bills 302, Bears 314, Jags 320, Vikings 321
Passing yards/G: Bills 202, Ravens 205, Jags 210, Cardinals 218, Packers 223
Rush yds/G: Bears 78, Saints 78, Ravens 95, Vikings 95, Cowboys 95
Points/G: Ravens 18, Titans 19, Cowboys 19, Bears 20, Redskins 20
Total Tackles: Texans 727, Browns 712, Ravens 708, Saints 706, Patriots 700
3rd down conversions: Vikings 28.3%, Jets 33.3%, Bears 35%, Ravens 36%, Chiefs 37%

The only two defensive categories the Ravens are not in the top are sacks & interceptions, but yet they are leading in points/game and yds/g, which is still how you win games. They are also the only team in the top 5 in all of these categories. If they are not compared to past Ravens defenses (say the 2000 team) and based solely on the NFL of 2018, they are a pretty damn good defense, especially with all the rules protecting the QB & receivers.

Now, The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly
Start with the Ugly:
Stupid, stupid, stupid penalties
ST coverage, blocking and some poor decision making (esp. Chris Moore)

The Good:
Lamar Jackson was a lot better than I could even hope for. I honestly thought RGIII would give them the best chance to win. Loved his ability to escape the sack/loss. made some good decisions after he threw the int.
GUS EWARDS! Been saying it since last year. Alex Collins is not a #1 RB. Edwards made the OL look good. Stanley, Lewis, and Skura are better run blockers, especially in straight ahead blocking, than they are pass protectors. Lamar Jackson opened up the run game, but Edwards took advantage of it. He also makes quick decisions and hits the hole really fast.
WR's/TE's not dropping passes. Willie Snead & Nick Boyle were beasts.
Over 200 yds rushing, albeit against one of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL.
Defensive stops and held Mixon to 14 yards rushing.
IMHO Brandon Carr is playing some of his best ball in many years (is it a coincidence he's in a FA year)
Z. Smith is playing like a man on fire (is it a coincidence he's in a FA year)
Only 1 turnover but only when Jackson was under pressure and he made a rookie mistake. He learned from it.
Offensive adjustments once Cincy made their defensive adjustments.
The D-line (yes, even Williams). They did their job of closing holes and not allowing Mixon or Bernard any room to run. Pierce & Urban got some good penetration.
The receivers report with Jackson was much better than i thought it would be.

The Bad:
Lamar Jackson not sliding. He'll need to either incorporate that into his game or add 50 lbs to his frame.
The stupid penalties have to stop, both offense and defense. Seems like they each get at least 1 per game.
Some of the offensive play calling. As noted the two QB sneaks in the red zone, but the worst one was the 4th & 1 call. Bengals had 8-9 on the DL. The Ravens had both Edwards & Ricard in the backfield where they were of no help what-so-ever. Why have your 300 lb FB in the backfield where he won't be able to block on a QB sneak? Either put him closer to the line or give the ball to Edwards or call a QB draw and let your 300 lb FB lead the way.

 

Didn't get to watch the game (local telecast was Steelers / Jaguars) but, a Ravens's win yesterday helps the Browns to not finish dead last in the AFCN again this year.

Because I didn't watch the game, I can't or won't comment on Lamar's passing accuracy. Nor will I comment on his rushing ability. However, if the Ravens continue to use a 19/54 pass/run mix with Jackson accounting for 27 of those 54 rushing attempts, you're gonna need RGIII sooner rather than later.

It really doesn't matter how many of those 27 rushing attempts were called running plays versus how many were scrambles. 27 rushing attempts is a load for a running back much less for a quarterback!

 

I agree and that seems to be a big concern around social media. Jackson missed all of Thursday's practice with an illness that, I think, sent him to the hospital. If I had to wager, I'd bet that the gameplan came from multiple factors. The first being that he didn't get enough actual practice time leading up to the game, and the second being that the Bengals are just that bad against the run.

One thing many who did watch the game haven't been mentioning is the amount of times he actually ran out of bounds on those hits and the times he avoid tackles by diving (although head first which could lead to injury as well). Again, I do agree that can't be the regular gameplan for Jackson, but I'm also assuming the coaching staff isn't that stupid......hopefully......because they have proven me wrong before.

 

I wanted to write about the defense a little, but since I'm on mobile, I apologize for how this message might get borked up.

My issue from the Bengals game is that we are talking about the #1 defense in the league going up against nearly a bottom 5 offense without their best player who routinely scores in clutch moments against us. Despite this, we were a missed field goal away from going into OT or relying on the offense to bail them out.

Speaking of the offense, this is an offense with 5 rookies starting and playing with a 6th in Elumenor who nobody even felt should be in the NFL let alone manning the starting LT position. On defense you only have Kenny Young taking any real defensive snaps, and despite that veteran packed defense, they held on by a thread yesterday.

Again, we aren't talking about Brees and the Saints as an opponent again. Without the ability to get sacks or force turnovers, you're basically just holding your breath and hoping for the best. Dominating performances against Buffalo and Tennessee help to pad the stats (especially sacks), but where are the big moments against other teams?

Based on how the 2 units are set up, I don't think it's unreasonable for the fans to expect more from the defensive side of the ball.

 

To hammer home the point, if I'm looking at this correctly, the Ravens have a total of 4 forced fumbles this year. Khalil Mack has 5 forced fumbles on his own.

 

Yeah, the Ravens don't force turnovers anymore. They barely get sacks. The defense is honestly surviving off the talent of the CBs imo

 

Ravens have 10 forced fumbles.

 

Hmm I was trying to look on Pro football reference on mobile and it seemed like they said 4, but everything is more confusing on mobile, so if it's 10, then it's 10!

 

^^^This. That has been my chief concern with LJ. I won't debate as to whether he did this in training camp, because no seems interested in discussing that, but I WILL say that this can change (if he wants it to) as he learns his body won't hold up to a season (even a half season) of potentially 27 car crashes per game. Now I understand why RG3 wasn't traded at what would've been his peak interest after preseason as many of us speculated. I liked getting the win and hope that it can continue no matter who's under center, but he's going to have to NOT run so many times a game.

After the his first game, I will further reserve judgement as to whether we can call him a pocket passer or run first QB until he gets a few more games under his belt. I won't use one game to prove a point.

Likes:
The win - Lamar did have a sense of urgency that the team responded to and he literally carried the offense. I'm sure his drive to win was infectious. Cincy's has the league's worst defense and he was able to exploit that rather than let them intimidate him instead.

Gus Edwards - I liked him since training camp. His development has been terrific. His patience behind blockers well ahead of his actual experience and he has the size and explosion in his first cut make significant gains. Again, Cincy's rush defense sucks, so I do take his production with a grain of salt. He's not Jamal Lewis who torched a similarly bad Bengals D for a record 295 yds, but as an undrafted rookie I'm happy with his performance. Hopefully he continues to improve too.

It's significant to note that LJ and Edwards where the first rookie QB-WR duo to gain 100+ rushing yds each in a game since 1970.

Willie Snead - Looks like he's poised to become Lamar's safety valve and he is the right player for that role. He is always trying to gain YAC and on the short/med passes that Lamar seems to favor for now, he's going to be important to the rookie.

Nick Boyle - I've always liked his play (when he wasn't suspended for PEDs) and saw some notable improvements in TC this year. Yet, I would've never thought he could be a main TE, which I believe is going to be the case as long as LJ stays in at QB.

The defense held up well allowing 260 total yards of offense and only 48 on the ground.

Yanda spitting on/at Burfict after one of his signature poor sportsman like post play displays. Pretty tame response from the big in any respect, but at least he didn't draw a flag for it so.....


Burfict deserves this and far worse for being such a dirty shit.

Did likes:
Didn't care to see LJ running the ball 27 times (8 more than passing attempts). IDC what side you fall on this can't be the norm going forward. Hopefully he stated is case and DCs plan for it as he passes on now far more cautious defenses expecting him to run.

LJ not sliding is going to be an issue. This was something he showed in Preseason against the Colts and he got clocked. He won't be able to sustain this for long if he settles a little less yards and protects the body.

Alex Collins looking more like a goal line back anymore. Where has the elusiveness and acceleration gone? Not sure if he's hurt or what but he's now ceding touches to Gus Edwards. Maybe there's more than just a QB change this year.

No turnovers. This could've kept the game from being so close. No INTs makes for a long day, but instead they did compile 7 PDs. Same for fumbles. Seems like their once league leading turnover ratio is ancient history.

 

I'm in the middle of another 6 hour ride home, so I thought I'd recheck the forced fumbles, and I still don't see the Ravens having anymore than 4 on any site I look. I might be going crazy, but I see each site lists Suggs, Smith, Jefferson, and Humprey causing 1 each.

 

Usually when a team is forcing more fumbles they are missing more tackles. You guys seem to be pretty good at not missing tackles. I would rather not miss tackles because that usually leads to big plays. Turnovers don’t make your defense better, getting off the field does, and I would say you guys are pretty good at getting off the field. Your problem is that your offense can’t stay on the field long enough to give your defense a rest.

 

I checked. Z.Smith, Humphrey, Suggs, and Jefferson are the only players with forced fumbles. We have 4 as a defense. That's from the Ravens website, NFL website, and profootball reference.

 

Thank You! That makes me feel better at least that someone else was seeing the same thing I did.

 

Washington, Oakland, Philadelphia, Chicago, and New Orleans are the only teams with as good or higher time of possession than the Ravens so far. Only really New Orleans is an outlier in the group as all other teams are muddled within about a minute +/- of 30.

 

I think the issue is, if you go to NFL.com and check the full team rankings, even if you're on defenses, it lists each team's offensive fumbles. It usually throws me off because I'll be on the defensive page, but it has an stat for fumbles then fumbles lost to the right of it

 

There is truth to this. Although, last game they controlled TOP which means the defense had time to rest. When you run the ball as much as they did for first downs it makes a difference.

In terms of turnovers vs. tackles I agree to a point. If it were possible tackle and prevent first downs nearly every time I'd agree completely. Against powerhouse offense, that's just not going to happen so turnovers become a valuable tool for not only killing a drive but preventing a score if within scoring range or giving your offense a short field. There is a distinct advantage to turnovers which is one reason Belichick doesn't care so much about giving up yards as much as creating situations to take the ball away.

 

I always thought getting a turnover gets the defense off the field...am I wrong?