Gentlemen. We have had an interesting couple of months. The mocks have been read and reeread, the combine complete, visits and pro days done and free agency winding down. You might have even spent time in your own film room assessing the options. Your opinions informed now its time for a decision. Here is your scenario; we are still at six with no trade in sight, the clock is winding down, who is on your card and why? On mine is Ansah. I admit this is a boom or bust pick, throwing caution to the wind, swinging for the fences, all in hope of a nasty pass rush. I want go see them routinely beat the QB back in his drop, I never again want to see Big Ben flick his hips and easily throw off a sure sack. Ziggy has the size, speed and strength to get it done. And with Horton to coach him up look out! All these picks will not be available to us, but who on this list would you take and why?
I voted for Ansah as well. I think he is the pick, and that Sheard will be packaged to get us back up into the 2nd round. Just my thoughts.
I went Miliner, with him, Haden, and the upgraded front seven getting pressure on the QB.... WATCH OUT!!!
Totally agree with u there Lym last thing I want to see is a high pick on a QB, especially this year.
Add me to the "anything but a QB" bandwagon. I'd love a defensive pick. Just can't see them taking Womack
I love the idea of taking him as a road grader, but practically speaking if we are picking sixth, we have more pressing needs than guard
I really wish people would do their own research instead of just reading some arbitrary armchair GM's assessment of a player and taking it as gospel. Cordarrelle Patterson is not without WR sin... he *did* drop some passes. In fact, he dropped 4.2 percent of his targets (catchable balls) in 2012. Compared to... Keenan Allen (Cal) at 4.7 percent. Justin Hunter (Tenn) at a disgusting 12.1 percent. Or established NFL stars like... Calvin Johnson (DET) at 5.4 percent. A.J. Green (CIN) at 5.5 percent. Wes Welker (NE) at 5.7 percent. Julio Jones (ATL) at 6.2 percent. So please, if you don't have anything constructive to say about someone else's pick suggestion -- especially when you're dead wrong in your 'assessment', it's better to just stay on the sidelines. KTHNXBYE
IMHO, if we're picking at 6 (assuming there's no trade down) I think we have much more pressing needs than WR... I think Patterson will make a good pro, probably a playmaker.... but not something I think the Browns really need to address with the No. 6 overall, with Gordon, Little, recently added Nelson (not to mention Norwood and Benjamin) I think there's a TON of potential in that group! Am I saying it's an 'elitle' group... HELL NO! But there's enough young talent there not to draft a WR at 6 overall... Secondary, Secondary, Secondary!!!! IMHO that's our biggest glaring weakness!!! We gotta get a corner opposite Haden, and a Safety opposite Ward, then, in the later rounds, they wanna take a chance on a WR, go for it!!!
Passing Touchdowns Scored: 16 (28th in the NFL) Passing Touchdowns Allowed: 27 (21st in the NFL) Sorry, looks like we have a deficit on scoring points versus shutting receivers down. I do think the secondary is important. I think after a playmaker we ought to spend the next few picks filling out those spots. Dee Milliner is a good player and a good prospect. He's not exactly a ball-hawk (only six INTs in three seasons) so that's a concern. The fact he plays on the most talented team in college is also a concern. Who's the last player to leave Saban's Tide and become an *immediate* impact? Julio Jones. A playmaker. Sorry, but when the entire team unit is elite, it's hard to get a read on just one player. I'd rather look at someone who made a huge impact on a bad team than someone who was a good player on an elite one. Combined with Ray Horton's reliance on lower-round cornerbacks and the fact that two Top 7 picks at cornerback is beyond excessive, I hope Dee Milliner is off the board when we pick so the temptation isn't there.
SAS, one thing I think your not seeing with the stats that you posted to support your opinion is that we've lost Sheldon Brown and Usama Young (not that Young did that much, but that leaves the cupboard pretty bare) So who would start opposite Haden? Skrine? Bademosi? Owens? T. Wade? I'm sorry, I just don't see any of those guys as starters opposite Haden, then who starts opposite Ward? Hagg? T. Gibson? Don't see that working out either? So, if the Browns take Patterson (as you suggest) then (hypothetically) our WR's are stronger sure, but do you think they can find starters in rounds 3-7 for CB and S? I just don't see it! If we take Patterson at 6 overall, you better hope we can score a TON more TD's, cuz we're gonna be playing "Catch up" every game, early and often!!! Mark Barron - One of the lone bright spots in an otherwise horrible TB secondary Marcell Dareus has had 5.5 sacks each of the last two seasons (not bad for an interior D-Lineman) Trent Richardson - 50 yds shy of 1,000 and scored 11 TD's (a Browns Rookie Record) Despite playing with broken Ribs and as you mentioned Earlier Julio Jones... So that's four out of the last 2 Drafts...
By no means am I discrediting them. But you're talking about replacing Sheldon Brown with Dee Milliner. That's no only a replacement, but an upgrade. Everyone is usually down on Brown, but his output is replaceable at an R3 to R4 level. I would scoop up Tyrann Mathieu in R3 in a hot second. Remember, despite playing the same competition, Mathieu was the one with better stats and more accolades than Milliner. If the NFL is ready to annoint a 5'10" QB, why not a 5'8" CB? Well they absolutely must for at least one of those positions. They cannot get a CB and FS with #6. They can get Tyrann Mathieu at #68 and Tony Jefferson at #104. Or Baccari Rambo at #68 and Blidi Wreh-Wilson at #101. What you're ignoring is that we can replace Sheldon Brown and Usama Young relatively late in the draft and cheaper. We cannot add a dynamic, four-prong playmaker like Patterson in R4 or R5. I know a common theme of the past is that we have completely different sets of expectations. I see that hasn't changed. Marcell Dareus - No. 3 overall pick, 11.0 career sacks, Buffalo has ranked 28th and 31st in run defense. Awesome. Mark Barron - No. 7 overall pick, 1 career interception, Tampa Bay ranked 32nd in pass defense. Awesome. Trent Richardson - No. 3 overall pick, 18th in rushing (11th in attempts), Cleveland ranked 24th in rushing offense. Awesome. With expectations that pathetic, it's no wonder there isn't more outrage over these 5-11 seasons.
I would too... except I don't see him lasting that long... He's also been out of football for a year, which will hurt his *immediate* impact... Usama Young wouldn't be hard to replace in the 7th INHO (he was pretty awful)... Sheldon Brown on the other hand, while not great, was pretty solid and will be alittle more difficult to replace later in the draft.... I think our main disagreement is, I don't think the offense is as "far off" as you... I believe they have a ton of Talent and can put up some pretty damn good numbers now that the BIGGEST problem has been dealt with (that being Shurmur/Chilly out and Chud/Turner in, that's is the bigger difference maker than can be found in the draft IHMO) K.C. was dead last in passing offense last year... are you saying D. Bowe isn't and *impact player*? Minnestoa was 31st in passing offense... P Harvin no good? N.Y. Giants was 31st in overall Defense... J. Tuck, JPP, Kiwanuka.... all no good? So those players were on bad overall Offenses/Defenses, Football is a team game, just because the overall Def/Off isn't top ten, doesn't mean their completely void of *Impact Players*
It could very well boil down to scheme/system. But outside of Josh Gordon, I don't see another pass catcher on our roster who could start for another franchise. And Gordon still ranked #39 in receiving yards (#33 among WRs), so there's at least 32 other receivers better than him at this point, too. I'm so glad you used them as an example! The only other thing I was going to say (but kept out of the thread for obvious reasons) was we can either blame a lack of playmakers, or the quarterback. You have just proven that even a great playmaker like Bowe is nothing without a quarterback. That said, I don't want to draft Geno Smith to replace our crap QB. Another great example -- for two reasons! One, Harvin only started eight games, costing his team an obvious playmaker for most of the year. And two, they also had suspect QB play. But again, even with Smith being better than Weeden, I don't believe Smith is a difference maker. Mathias Kiwanuka not good, that's true. Jason Pierre-Paul had a crappy season (and outside of his good one in 2011) has been only average thus far in his career. Another *great* example as to why you don't draft a physical freak to be a pass rusher (Dion Jordan, Ezekiel Ansah) but rather a proven commodity (Jarvis Jones). Justin Tuck still not sure he's elite, either. He obviously didn't have an impact on the defense. Overall though, I'm not sure why you're using these guys as examples. None of them were pegged as playmakers coming out of college (and none were Top 10 picks) and none were from Alabama, either. Not quite sure where you're going, other than a tangent.
You're leaving!!! Be still my beating heart. As always, we are playing agree with SAS (I think you misspell this....) or be labeled village idiot. There are a lot of village idiots here, I will happily be chief of the tribe.
TRADE DOWN I hate the idea. I mean a deep, visceral hatred for trading down. But... read today a proposed trade between Cleveland and San Diego (who holds the 11th overall pick). San Diego reportedly wants to move up for a LT and won't be able to wait around. Cleveland wants to move down and draft Cordarrelle Patterson. Sounds like a win-win for all parties, here. Per the outdated, though frequently referenced, draft point chart, #11, #47 and #110 are equal to the value of #6. Convenient, no?
I love that after you say something that is blatantly false, your best rebuttal is personal attacks and pettiness. Way to really come back with substance there, DvlDawg. You sure do play that "idiot" role well.
Sam, I still don't think that you understand why I don't like you. You are a very disrespectful individual whom cannot handle being disagreed with. I find you as obnoxious as I find you informative, and you are very well informed. Your wealth of information would be received with ready enthusiasm if you were capable of handling yourself with greater aplomb. You are the first to break out the insults and the last to attempt any sort of reconciliation in any circumstance. Everyone here has their own opinion, based on their own feelings, insight and in your case intensive internet research and love of stats. If stats meant everything, then the draft would be insignificant and there would not be a single bust out there. I agree with you on many subjects, and when you can maintain yourself in a mature and adult manner I love your posts. It is your childish outbursts that turn me away from you. I have attempted to be civil and let you know that I do not appreciate your condescension, I have tried returning fire in kind, and I have flat out told you how I feel about you and your demeanor. I have no illusions of reaching through your childish veneer, and reaching a reasonable and gracious individual, but I am happy to extend or grasp the olive branch at your convenience.
