the miracle happened. Haslem looks like an idiot. Watson goes out, DTR gets injured allowing the emergency 3rd string QB to finally play and he looks the best of any QB this season. If he isn’t starting next week, we know Haslem is playing for the number 1 overall pick of the draft. DTR gives them a running dimension, but with Winston in there giving them a passing dimension, it should loosen up the defense for Chubb to get back to productive.
I think the debate on the stadium has to viewed outside of football. These new stadiums host a lot more than just NFL football games. And the surrounding development will be huge for the area.
The TitleTown district around the Packers stadium has 21 events in October. Two of those events are Packers games.
That's just it beach.. The Browns stadium does not hold a bunch of events. The NEW stadium would be similar to TitleTown in that they would host events year round. I know they held a Billy Joel concert this summer, it's the only event I knew about. Right now from October to September 2025, they have 5 events scheduled... All Browns games. Obviously the 2025 games will be added after the schedule comes out, but they have exactly zero "other" events scheduled for the next 12 months. This is why I said above that it was mismanaged....
Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas only has 10 events scheduled between now and the end of the year, 4 of which are Raiders games. AT&T stadium has 10 events between now and the end of the year, 5 of which are Cowboys games. Caesars Superdome in New Orleans has 11 events now through year end, 5 of which are Saints games. I'm sensing a trend of about 3 events per month on average, which a percentage of that is hometown NFL teams games. Your TitleTown is surrounding area events, not Lambeau Field events. (unless you are counting the Lambeau Field Tours which are like 3 days per week)? Or you are taking the local market into consideration on this one. But, so would the Brookpark project.
One other thing in consideration, this "project" is suited to host a Super Bowl... A hosting Super Bowl community on average see an influx of $500M in revenue for the week.... That would help pay for half of the "community" investment alone. Something that will never happen in the open air stadium downtown Cleveland. In 2018 Minnesota "NETTED" $370M from hosting the Super Bowl. Fast forward about 15 years, which would be the earliest a new stadium would be available to host a Super Bowl. If they could get one in 2033, or about 5 years after completion, it would be one of the biggest events held in Ohio history. In comparison the Republican National convention netted about $68M after early estimates said it would bring $200M. Regardless, this facility could host more events like these national conventions to help pay for the cost as well.
Yes, Title Town and Brookpark looked to be similar in their design. I did not mean to imply all the events would occur inside the football stadium.
I just want to know why the taxpayers have to foot half the bill to build this rich guy’s business but don’t get a percentage of the profits? Yes it makes jobs and tax money but if the public is footing half the tab, why not a percentage. If there is no help from the taxpayers and Haslam gets funding elsewhere , we still make tax money and tourist dollars, etc. But if we pay half, the public earns nothing extra for their investment. It’s socializing the costs and privatization of the profits. Phuque that.
It’s the game that’s played to keep the money in their neighborhood. Do you have any idea how many tax breaks are given to companies to move their operations into Ohio, Cuyahoga County, Cleveland, etc… it’s just business. The tax payers all benefit. If Cleveland had the actual space, they would be the ones paying the piper. Because of FAA regulations and lack of land for the full picture, they are out….Brookpark and Cuyahoga County do NOT want to miss the opportunity. They could go to 5 counties and still be close enough to remain the Cleveland Browns. The Cavs played in Summit County for years.. They weren’t the Richfield Cavaliers, they were still Cleveland. There are options and Cuyahoga County doesn’t want there to be any other option but THEIR county. I have a question for you, how much do you think it costs in taxes to pay the share?
Irish, I don’t care where they move or if they stay in Cleveland. All I care about is the fact I’m subsidizing some rich phuquer’s plaything to the tune of half and not getting anything from it. If the taxpayers don’t help, all the jobs and tax money and tourists, etc. are still there. This is (or should be) a business transaction where either this “loan” is paid back with interest or even for a percentage of the ownership. Nobody goes on Shark Tank without knowing they gotta give up a stake in their company.
Actually a few of those studies I read show that most of the money leaves with the ownership and players. But we aren’t building their places of employment to the tune of 1.2 billion (so far) and aren’t on the hook for more money when they need improvements down the road. And typically those businesses bring career jobs with salaries and not the hourly minimum wage variety that this will. The actual best use for this money is investing in something like education which has an exponential return on investment and Cleveland could sure use something like that…..but that’s another topic. If Haslam wants a new stadium, he can find his own money supply from investors who (guess what?!?!) will get a return on their investment in the form of some sort of percentage ownership in the whole thing. The city, county and state will still benefit yet don’t have to give away $1.2B for no added value.
Do you live in Cuyahoga County duff, this is a curiosity question. I know people in Cuyahoga County and they are afraid the Browns are going to leave. I'm curious who you think pays for this type of subsidy. This is the main sources: SIN Tax, which is about 4.5 cents per pack of cigarettes that gets smoked, 1.5 cents per bottle of beer, 6 cents per gallon of mixed alcoholic drinks of liquor, $3 per full bottle of wine and 24 cents per gallon of hard cider that gets drank. Currently 1/3 of the Cuyahoga County SIN Tax goes to the City of Cleveland to pay back their share of the "loan" they used to build the (3) Sports facilities in Cleveland. An alternative, if the SIN Tax can't be transferred to Brook Park is an income tax for the county.. .25% (that's a quarter of one percent) would cover the cost of this project according to economists. So for every $100 you make if you live or work in the county, you would be paying 25 cents to the cause in order to bring the stadium, surrounding infrastructure, jobs and income to that area. Someone that makes $50,000 per year would pay $125.00 per year towards the project... There will be more $50,000 per year jobs available with this project... If you are currently making minimum wage of $21,736 (that's if you can get enough minimum wage jobs to make up a 40 hour work week) you would pay $54.34. Now, if I could exchange that minimum wage job for one making $50,000 per year, do you think I give a damn about paying $125.00 a year for that job? By the way, Most of the people that live in Cuyahoga County do not live in downtown Cleveland, currently at about 2% or around 12,000 people... So, for the city to take 1/3 of the counties money is actually doing a disservice. At least the community of Brook Park would have a new opportunity for growth, where as it currently stands much of the industry has left the area. In 1990 there were 26,000 residents in Brook Park, in 2000 it had dropped to 21,000. Now they have around 18,000... All because of businesses leaving. Yet, still higher than the City of Cleveland at 12,000. Doesn't it make sense to help this dying community bring jobs back to the city and help rejuvenate a once populace area? Not to mention, they would be closer to their headquarters in Berea and would help boost the economy of Berea, Middleburg Heights, North Olmsted and Parma. The current location only boosts down town Cleveland, which in and of itself is already boosted by it's location alone. The only reason to argue against the move is so that people that go to the game are closer to the downtown Cleveland bars 8 days out of the year.... That scene has declined over the years as well. If you go to a bar on game day, it's more likely you cannot get food due to the over crowding and the establishments need/want to sell alcohol than food. I'm older now, so I see game day a little more clearly. It was always the muni lot for me, so the City didn't get much from me anyway. Now, I want to get down there early, tailgate for about an hour, then head to an establishment to eat and drink prior to the game. If they leave and go to say... Akron, which is in Summit County, all the jobs, tax money and tourists are NOT still there, they are in Summit County. Brook Park is 14 miles from Downtown Summit County is 20 miles from Downtown Lorain County is 20 miles from Downtown Geauga County is 27 miles from Downtown Medina County is 26 miles from Downtown If the county refutes the move to Brook Park because Cleveland or the citizens disapprove, it's a short drive to one of the other counties surrounding the city. And there is ample opportunity on the edges of each of those counties to build this project there.
