This is a move that can make a franchise. If Poles gets OL help in free agency he can really alter the defense via the draft. And you still have really good draft capital next year…if for some reason Fields disappoints you can replace him rather easily. I love the move all around. And I love that he did it before free agency…giving potential targets something to consider.
I don't think four quarterbacks go in the first 9 picks. The talent just isn't there. Trubisky and Wilson are recent high picks that didn't warrant it, but with two clear front runners, and a wide gap between them and Levis / the Florida kid, I think a team in the top 9 is going to be hard pressed to justify taking one of the latter two instead of the best talent at another position on the board. Counting on that, at the very least, would not be wise by Chicago. I don't think they're doing that.
This move happens because of DJ Moore and the utter disaster that was the Claypool trade. Poles said earlier in the season that he didn't like the FA / draft crop of WR's this upcoming off-season, so he'd be aggressive in other ways if he needed to be. We saw one horrible trade for Claypool, which almost made me jump off a bridge when it first happened, and then this one to try and make up for it. No doubt the Panthers beat other offers by making Moore part of the package. This is also very telling about what Chicago thinks of the guys in this draft. It's unlikely that the Bears are taking a position outside of OL, DL, and maybe CB / LB - the fact that they traded down to 9 means they probably won't be getting the first player taken at any of those positions (maybe CB / LB if they go that way). So, I would imagine that they either: A ) see the top players at those positions as being relatively equal (maybe they're fine with either Skoronski or the Ohio St kid at OT, for example), and therefore a pick at 9 is just as good as a pick at, say, 4. Or, B ) they don't see anyone really being so extraordinary that they're worth a pick that early, and may elect to trade down again when inevitably one of the QB's or another top player that someone wants falls. I've watched Bresee, Murphy, and Wilson on the DL, and none of them are worth a pick at 9. So if they're looking to improve the defense, they might be trying to move down again and take a couple guys (which would help such an empty roster), rather than just one that is likely to underwhelm. All in all, this is a fine return. I usually prefer to see picks this year instead of next, since you can't predict where next year's pick will fall and you could use the help now, but they clearly wanted a real WR in trade at some point. DJ Moore is that, even if I'd prefer he had a little less wear on him (it's not realistic that a team would trade a star WR even younger than 26, but I can dream). Now give Fields some OL help, and some NFL bodies in front of the DB's you drafted last year, and you're off to a good start.
Ev, you mentioned which WR's would play which position, specifically the slot. Moore and Mooney are capable of playing out of the slot, and I think a good offense mixes that up to keep a defense on their heels. We know that Claypool isn't a slot guy, even if he's still a "What I got?" guy on the outside. Velus Jones, if he ever becomes an NFL player, is more well suited for an inside role as well.
I'm not convinced that Poles wasn't also including QB's in his top 7 without more context to that quote, but it does support the A assertion I made, that basically Poles is happy with any one of a number of guys, and therefore finds the #9 pick just as attractive as, say, the #4. I'm gonna be watching some more OL / DL this weekend, but I'm starting to lean towards taking an OT at 9, and then going DL / LB with the second round picks. I wouldn't be mad if they just took a bunch of OL, though, honestly.
I think this is a natural response, given the 'what if' factor that will come if Carolina stays at 1 and takes their pick of the QBs and if they turn into something good. Poles got the equivalent of three 1sts and then some and he's still picking in the top 10, quite possibly with a chance to trade down and get even more. A 1st and another pick turned into DJ Moore, a 25 year old who immediately becomes your #1, and he's under reasonable contract (20 mil in 23, 16 mil cap hits in 24 and 25 per spotrac) and you're going to get his best years, compared to Nuk Hopkins the other big name on the trade block--who you have to pay 30 this year and 26 and change next year (and he wants a new deal) and he'll be 31. Oh, and his best days are long gone. The 67 instead of 39 pick is also probably Moore offsetting compensation, Moore basically being a 1st and a move down in the 2nd. I'm not saying that's nothing in terms of compensation, but the bears are instantly benefiting from this return. You get your X and a true #1 on the roster who can also be a threat from the slot or Y (And let's consider this--DJ Moore is only 27 days older than Velus Jones) and Poles stays in the top 10. But with a move like this, akin toTrey Lance in San Francisco (whom they gave up a ton, but less than Carolina gave the bears in the move yesterday to go from 12 to 3 to get) that's going to be a shitload of pressure on whoever they take with a shitty OL and the best weapon being traded away. San Francisco drafts well enough to surround an offense to surround Mr. Irrelevant in the draft with talent to make him look like a mega star. Carolina just traded away their two biggest offensive threats in the span of a year. You may get another top 10 pick next year, meaning if Mooney or Claypool don't play well enough to get 2nd contracts, hello Marvin Harrison Jr. Then again, the panthers may take a generational superstar and then the revisionist historians will lament another bears screw up. The fact that the panthers 'could' benefit if they pick the right guy and put him in a position to succeed immediately makes people jaded, and I don't get why. What did you think would happen when all the trade chatter surrounding #1 overall started? If a team did it it was obviously for a QB they want to gamble on and have first crack at. If Moore is a 1000+ yard WR again, and Poles gets talent with the Panthers picks while whomever Carolina takes sucks ass, people will be calling this a fleece in a couple of years. For now, its 'wait and see' on it being fleeced. Paris Johnson is impressive, and his scouting report almost mirrors Braxton Jones, an athletic run mauler with perfect measurables, except he's far more polished as a pass blocker than Jones was. My problem with Johnson is the mauling/rape holds he would get away with when OSU was blowing out Rutgers or whomever was their victim isn't going to fly in the NFL. Wont shock me if/when he's one of the most penalized rookies/players in the NFL in the coming years. I'm not interested in or buy the project small school ginger caveman from North Dakota State. Cody Mauch or whatever his name is. North Dakota State's division 2 conference is typically a cake walk for them, but the one game he played against actual collegiate level opponent--University of Arizona, he was overwhelmed and got exposed. May as well stick it out with Braxton Jones if that's a guy you want. For those complaining that Skoronski isn't athletic enough for what Poles wants at OT, I don't know how they could consider Georgia LT Broderick Jones a target. Dude's slow as molasses, yet massive with great hands. Don't know enough about the tackles from Maryland (Jalyn Dunan) or Oklahoma (Anton Harrison) yet, but right now they're considered late 1/early 2 rounders by the pundit world.
Whoa....I can honestly say I did not previously think of this. I'd rather the Bears trio of receivers completely ball out....but this as a consolation prize wouldn't be awful at all.
So, projecting this defensive line class is all going to be about whether or not you, as a GM, feel they can develop in your scheme. So many guys have excellent physical traits, but need to develop key points of their game to be real threats at the next level. I'm watching some Lukas Van Ness, and this guy is picture perfect "speed to power". Good get-off, keeps his pads low, drives his hands inside and dictates engagement, and bull rushes the crap out of the pocket. ... Except when an OL digs his feet in and stonewalls him, and then he can't disengage and is basically done. I'm not seeing much else in his bag. Can he learn to use that power to disengage at the next level? Can he play 3tech like I guess he did earlier in his college career (I haven't seen that tape, so I don't know)? The GM is gonna have to spend time with the player and decide. That's info we can't necessarily know.
I don't either. And i have no problem with that. Burns had a good season, a career year, but even that only just got him into the top10 for sacks last season. The production has never matched the hype up to this point. Would i take him over Moore straight up? Yeah probably, but there's not a lot in it. The comp system in the NFL is a fucking joke. The Bears signed nothing more than some minor 1 & 2year deals. ZERO 3 year deal i believe after Ogunjobi fell thru. You've got the guy you named getting very solid deals and all we get is a late 7th rounder?? I don't go in for conspiracy theories on the NFL being rigged. But if i did i'd start with the comp system.
24hours to think about it..... this trade continues to grow on me. Varder's right, its no fleecing, its not. But its a very good deal for the Bears. The fact i read stuff today saying the Panthers turned down offers of a 1st round pick for Moore at the trade deadline last season really brings things into focus. And he's not outrageously expensive, at all, particularly years 2 & 3 which will seem cheap. ANd he's gonna be 26! Moore is the crux of this deal, and its good guys. It really is worth taking a moment to note that the Bears don't get anywhere near a trade like this from #2. They may have got a couple nice picks, but not this. That had zero to do with the Bears but for once we caught a major break and the GM turned into something potentially very substantial. God bless Lovie.
In most drafts I would agree. There is always one guy, sometimes two that get over drafted compared to the talent that should have been picked in their place. I just don’t see this draft with that level of player to outshine a QB in this draft. The only two players that I would lock into a top 3 talent are Will Anderson and Jalen Carter. With Carters legal trouble, he is now up in the air despite the talent level. No other player is a lock top ten with or without the “extra two” QBs. The next 15 non QB prospects are at or near the same level of each other. The QBs potential is all that is needed to propel them into the top ten and all 4 QBs have at least that potential factor. I will be shocked if all 4 don’t go in the top 10. I will be very surprised if all 4 don’t go before the Bears pick at 9. I will be mildly surprised if they don’t all go in the top 7 picks. With this draft class and this crop of QBs, The Panthers, Texans and Colts are definitely taking a chance on a QB.. that’s 3 down. The Raiders are the most likely next team to take one, but depending on how they have them ranked, they could trade up to 3 to get one of the two left that they like better. I have a feeling McDaniels loves Levis, but I also think the Colts would take him over Richardson despite what he did at the combine. That could be the struggle in Vegas, who gets their way, McDaniels or Davis(who will probably prefer Richardson). In the meantime, if the Raiders can’t make up their mind and don’t trade up, then Will Anderson is gone at #3 to Arizona. Levi’s goes to the Colts and that is when the draft gets interesting. Even with the re-signing of Geno Smith (only a 3 year contract), with another first round pick at #20, they could very well snatch Richardson up for themselves as they won’t expect to be in position to get another QB over the next 3 years. Richardson could be developed to take over and Smith’s contract is easy to get out of in year 3. If he is playing lights out and Richardson is ready, they can trade him with a team friendly contract either next season and get more for him, or trade or cut him the 3rd year and only be on the hook for around $8.7M. This scenario is Taylor made for John Schneider and Pete Carroll. If they are sold on Smith, then they want all the tools they can get to surround him and they would more likely than not want to trade out if that 5 spot. Lamar Jackson could potentially have a huge impact on this draft. Richardson could easily be seen as a more athletic Lamar. If some team overpays for Lamar, the Ravens will have (4) first round draft picks over the next two years. Schneider would, imho, take Any 2 of those 4 picks, plus another random pick or player to move out of the top ten with this years draft class. This all depends of course on the fact that Young and Stroud are the first two picks in the draft, if either Levis or Richardson are one of those picks, all hell breaks loose at #3 overall and all 4 QBs become a lock to go in the top 4.
Agree on the revisionist history will be prevalent in years to come on who "won" the trade. I'm sure if whoever they pick ends up as a Mahomes, we will hear no end of it, but I also think it was clear the Bears were not ready to give up on Justin after this season. And lets be real, Justin was not going to bring in anything close to the compensation they just got if they had decided to cut ties. When you look at this right now, the Bears don't need a QB, and Carolina really, really does. AND they got a very good WR in the package with the picks as well. Yes, if Carolina's future QB doesn't pan out, the Bears "fleeced" almost no matter what. But from their perspective, they had to take a chance, because they clearly believe in 1 maybe 2 guys, and don't think the others would fall. ^If that's true, it means Poles was in the drivers seat, as he should have been. All told, Poles definitely did not fuck this up. After reading reddit and non-Bears fans takes, EVERYONE thinks this is a great trade for the Bears, including Carolina fans, which was interesting. They are not happy to see DJ Moore leave. Not that Carolina fans are upset, just understand this is what it takes to get the franchise guy. Given they've lost CMC and Moore, there is a good chance that Panthers pick next year is a top 10. For once, WE get the traded pick that's likely going to be good in the future.
We all want Mustipher gone, so I've started watching some Center tape. I really like this kid out of Michigan. Violent, always looking for work, and a four year starter at a major program. I could see him being a mid-late round pick that earns a starting job, even if his NFL ceiling is lower than guys who go earlier than him.
That is a great move dline, look forward to reading it. What is the name of of the Michigan kid? If you get a chance, look up that Wypler guy from Ohio State. From what i've read there seems to be a range of opinion on him, from anywhere between a 2nd-4th rounder, which seems a little odd by this point in the process. I'd quite like the Bears to draft JMS but having failed to get that #39 in the trade down im not sure thats viable anymore.
Very interesting. If its true, then taking the 2nd rounder & Moore instead of the 1st rounder was def the right move by Poles. Actually, 2 years of #1WR play before those picks even enter the chat? Easy decision. He did well, i just wish he'd got that cherry. You know, the extra sweetener that often gets bargained into these things. I'm not sure he could've got an extra 3rd rounder, im pretty certain he could've got an extra 4th tho. You see it all the time, Lynch did it to Pace and he paid. You've done the hard work, its almost there, but you go back and say i just need a little more. And it usually works. The reason it usually works is essentially the position you're putting your opponent in is "are you really gonna kill this deal over a 4th rounder?" With such big capitol involved and agreed the throw-in rarely brings these things down. As it seems, Poles had to work pretty hard to grind Carolina down over Moore, so the size of the throw-in may have been limited, but i believe the point stands. And the reason this matters isn't just the fact of the extra selection, if you have an extra 4th rounder, or even just a 5th rounder, that is like playing with house money if put towards a trade up in the 2nd round. Which you have to figure you may want to do having nothing between #9--#53 and with there maybe being a John Michael Smitz or a pass rusher etc that you covet. In the grand scheme of things a small matter, but one that could matter nonetheless.
Not that I want to call it a conspiracy, I'm just baffled minimal deals for bum ass players like Mohammed (5 mil a year), Byron Pringle (4.1 mil), and Lucas Patrick (4 mil a year) and Justin Jones (6 mil AAV) offset Allen Robinson (15 mil a year) and James Daniels (9 mil) but not guys like Jakeem Grant (4 mil AAV), Artie Burns (3 mil in Seattle), Bilal Nichols (4.4 mil), or Akiem Hicks (8 mil). Megadick gets you the only comp pick. Per NBCSN Bay Area: the NFL uses a formula that accounts for a player's average salary per year (APY), snap count and postseason awards. The exact specifics of the formula are confidential, but we do know it also takes into consideration a player's history of playing time (or lack thereof) The AAVs don't line up. This shit didn't make sense to me years ago, and it still doesn't now. Right now, it just looks like a sham to give good drafting teams a leg up on everybody else by not spending money on a 2nd contract of a good player they drafted. I'm a huge fan of Olusegun Oluwatimi. I don't think he'll be a mid rounder come draft day. I think he may be gone by the 3rd round. I like Luke Wypler, especially the job he and the RG Matthew Jones did on one "prognosticated" top 3 pick and idiot, Jalen Carter in the CFP. They made him entirely ineffective and made him disappear. John Michael Schmitz probably is a late 1st rounder, unless the ageism kicks in against him (I didn't' know he's 24). I'm slowly coming around to Oregon C Alex Forscythe. He'll be another mid rounder C who's a solid 2-way C, not as good/polished as OO or Wypler or Schmitz. But my fear is Poles screws up and takes the run mauler who can't pass block for shit from Arkansas.
I think I'd want to see them take a run at Jawaan Taylor, first, but I will admit that I'm less informed on the FA market than most. Spend the money on the trenches right now, is my opinion - no need to to bargain bin the guys protecting your franchise.
