I havent made any excuses for Fields, ive pointed out and agreed about mistakes he's made, both in threads like this and in game threads. I have big concerns about the mental aspect of his game. This isn't about me making excuses, its about you being so ground down by this team that you have no patience for anything anymore. And thats not a shot, it makes me sad as hell, cos you're an amazing fan, you've been with this team thru decades of shit and you deserve so much better. We all do. But the fact remains that Fields, in real terms, is still on a rookie season amount of both starts and games. Its early. He's already on his second offense. He's in the worst situation in football with a deck stacked against him. Thats not excuse making its fact. Throw him on the scrap heap after 10 games if you want. They can replace him next season and you'll be right back to shitting on the next guy too. Blang, i clearly said give examples of BOTH ol & wr groups that are bottom 3. If you could've met that criteria you would've, that you can't is a tacit admission im right. If you have to cherry pick to support your opposing position then your position isn't strong. Finding a team with either a trash OL & trash WRs, that can be done and indeed for those teams themselves, can be mitigated for. If you have a crap OL but good receivers who can win fast then your basis can be a quick rythym passing game with your deep shots coming off things like PA in max protect. If its vice versa your line can sustain blocks long enough for guys to get open/QB get thru their progressions. Its when you have neither that you're fucked and because of the GM the Bears are fucked. You yourself said right before this bit i quoted the offense is worse than trash, so im not really sure what you're even arguing with me for. But couple of points or order cos i wana be clear about this: Pats - You didn't mention OL but we both know its better than the Bears. I agree their WRs are mediocre, thank you for agreeing with my point that they're better than the Bears WRs. Giants - OL is better yes. Their WRs were all injured sunday so..... but impressed overall? Not massively. Would i take their WR room over the Bears? Absolutely. Also they get a bonus point for at least trying to fix the positions they need to. Texans - Again OL better, and yes Cooks is better than Mooney lol. #11 had a nice season, Cooks has 6 consecutive 1,000yard seasons. He has like 170balls for 2,200yards the last 2 seasons playing on that black hole of an offense, thats ARob with the Bears when he wasn't a c_nt level impressive. Cooks has more receptions than the entire Bears receiver corps this season and has had a collective (i think) three 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder & a 4th rounder spent on him over the years. Yes he's better than Mooney. Jets - Their talent at WR shits all over the Bears from a great height. They just took a WR top10 overall in the last draft. They have two other WR's they took in the second round in 2019 & 2020. Thats 3 high draft picks in the last 3 drafts. AND they paid Corey Davis in FA. And thats just the receivers! For the OL the Jets have two 1st rounders in the last 3 drafts and high paid FAs at LT, LG & RT. The new LT is a 5time pro bowler. That is 9 players! The Bears last 3 drafts they have one 2nd round T now playing G, THATs IT! Their best WR is a 5th rounder they got lucky on. Everything else is 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag. The Jets are doing it exactly right. They dropped a big draft pick on a QB and are pulling out every stop they can to help him succeed. I actually hope it works out for the Jets and Zach Wilson, they deserve it. Anyway.....if that was your best crack at it then you just proved me completely right that bww's original assertion is bullshit. What are you talking about here? The discussion was about passing games. Daniel Jones threw for about 70yards yesterday and had 0 TD passes. The Giants won that game on the ground this has nothing to do with anything we're discussing. Davis Mills also has a multiple pro bowler covering his blind side. A guy currently ranked the 3rd best LT in pass protection in the league this season. Ya think that helps?? Knowing your not gonna get crushed by a mack truck while completely unprepared? Quinn came out that game with 1 fucking tackle, he spent so much time with his face burried in Tunsils jock he would up monday morning and still all he could taste was dick. Mills also didnt have a turnstile C in front of him. The Bears managed a sack and 3 hits on a statue QB, what does that tell you? You are proving my point here. What does this even mean? Are you talking about Fields rookie season now? I mean he only started like 9-10games last season, you're upset he didn't throw for 3k yards and post a 95 qbr like Teddy Bridgewater? 7 year vet Teddy Bridgewater? .....K?.... Lets stay on point here, you said QB's all around the league are doing more than Fields with the same or less talent around them. So show me who. And not last year when he was a rookie on a sinking ship offense, not 5years ago or 10. This season who's doing more with the same or less at OL & WR. You said its all around the league so that suggests plenty of names here and you haven't given 1.
Actually the option he had was Offense or Defense. Didn't have the resources for both this year, but did have a QB with a ton of potential who cost a boatload to get here. A QB to build around the like of which you're not spending anything like as much on again for at least 2years, but probably 3. He had a choice to take a 21st century approach and build his team around offense in an offense driven league. Instead he went the tried and tested Bears route of Defense and fuckery like they've been doing forever and it was absolutely the wrong move.
See to me thats an example of how this O-Line is already messing with Fields head big time. Really bad. He's made the wrong move for sure but its cos he has no faith in Mustipher and frankly he has no reason to. Its fucking negligent that Mustipher is still out there. EXACTLY! Well on his way towards being gunshy.
Not cherry picking anything. I never claimed our o-line + WRs are better than those other teams. But especially in the case of the WRs, it's not like a night and day difference as you are making out. So what if the Jets have invested massively at WR in the draft, the results aren't there yet (side note, I still love Braxton Berrios). And at this stage of his career, statistically Mooney and Cooks are equals. Mooney had more receiving yards than him last year, Cooks had a few more receptions and 2 more TDs. It remains to be seen if Velus Jones can contribute to the offense this year, and whether that has any effect on Fields playing better. Plus at least Fields has 2 solid RBs to rely on to keep churning positive gains and take some of the pressure of him. These RBs who support Fields are better than what the Texans and Jets have, possibly Pats too. BWW can speak for himself but his assertion was that less talented QBs are doing far more than Fields while also being surrounded by mediocrity on the offensive side of the ball. He's 100% right. You want to die on the hill that the reason Fields is getting outplayed by less talented QBs all over the league is due to Fields having the absolute worst o-line + WR group, go ahead. As I said before, if he wasn't at rock bottom, if he had shown some promise in consistently finding the right target and accurately throwing to him, I'd probably be right there with you.
Okay, so just to clear this all up, as a spectator - is the argument that, with a better roster, Fields still wouldn't be good enough? That we can all agree the roster does suck, but Fields' sucking is not BECAUSE of the roster, it's because he's not good enough? Is that the argument? Sad part is, we may never find out for sure while he's a Bear.
Whether you realise it or not you are most certainly cherry picking. As for what you never claimed, thats whats being debated lol. You interjected. Its a message board so you can interject wherever you like, but if your gonna interject in a debate two other people are having and don't even address the subject being debated, whats the point of commenting in the first place? Is it just that Fields isnt allowed to have any extenuating circumstances at all? That is a really dumb thing to say man. So what if the Jets have tried to help their 1st round pick QB? Come on now. Its not even accurate in the context of this season. Wilson currently has more catches than the entire Bears WR corps. Davis & Moore EACH have as many catches as the entire Bears receiver corps. You want to only focus on recent times because you think it helps your case *sighs* Cooks has more than double the number of receptions at Mooney at this stage blang. Like Wilson, Cooks also has more receptions than the entire Bears receiving corps. Wrong! You haven't even read his post correctly. The part i quoted never even cited the specific talent levels of QB's, it did cite the specific talent levels of the positions around them. Thats what this is all about. Here's the direct quote: QBs all over the league are doing more with the same talent around them or even less. My question to him was show me the teams that have the same or less talent around them than Fields. We're obvs talking passing game specific here so i cited OL & WR, the two things on the field that will be the biggest support or detriment to a QB. He hasn't been able to give me even 1 name yet. You couldn't either although given what i just quoted form you, and the fact you keep trying to bring RBs into a discussion where they don't belong in this case, it make me think you've not understood what we're talking about form the get go. Don't do that. This isn't you and me telling pat that Cutler is bad year after year and pat stubbornly refusing to accept it. I've stated clearly the flaws in Fields game. Im just not standing by while people say a bunch of stupid shit so they can pile on the QB more. Taken as a combined set of units, that being the OL & WR corps together, Fields does have the worst situation in the league. That is the state of things, its what the GM gave him. You just cant handle it cos it pours a little water on the fire of your burning latest Bears QB at the stake.
I told blang that weeks ago. Because the Bears aren't giving Fields any help, not even Cutler level help, he's never gonna be able to say for sure that Fields sucks purely because Fields sucks, which is probably quite annoying to him. Never gonna be able to prove me wrong on this either, not even if they drop every dime and draft pick on offense next offseason. Because how do you prove that the previous two years didnt ruin him.
What the fuck are you talking about? You obviously didn't read his post, which I will now quote here: It's not horseshit. Every season this team finishes near or at the very bottom in so many offensive categories. Are they always the most devoid of talent? Why was Daniel Jones able to find the endzone twice when he had barely anyone resembling a legit NFL receiver and had a makeshift offensive line that got even more injured during the game? The Giants found a way to brave out a six minute drive late in the game while basically only using 10 guys on offense. The Bears could put 12 on the field and struggle to move 2 yards. Davis Mills is a walking pile of crap....still out performs Fields statistically and it's not because he's surrounded with talent. If you think Cooks is the reason he plays better than Fields that's fine. It's also bullshit. Teddy Bridgewater had stats last season we would have been really happy to see Fields have on a really shit team in Denver. Gardner f'n Minshew put up stats that blow away Fields in Jacksonville a couple years ago on a 1-15 team. Again, 100% right. Are you honestly saying that Davis Mills and Gardner Minshew are more talented than Fields? Teddy Bridgewater? News flash: they aren't and yet they've succeeded more in similar situations with crap surrounding them. That's the fucking point. What's dumb is thinking that just because the Jets have "tried" to help their 1st round pick QB means that he's now surrounded by studs. Their WRs may or may not pan out. If they do then you can take a victory lap. Uhh Mooney is only in his third year, I think that would be why. And the reason why his numbers are down this year is because the whole passing game blows right now, which Fields has a major role in. I know it's easy to forget because of how strong my Cutler hatred was, but from 2009-12 there was no bigger believer of him than me. It's too bad our CBS threads are lost to a blackhole but if we could revisit those you'd see I spent plenty of time making a case on his behalf. That started to change in late 2013. I was even Rex believer all throughout 2006 and into the Super Bowl. You act like this is just me being being stubborn and bitter because of a pattern. I have reasons for why I don't believe in Fields and I stand by them. What annoys me is that Fields sucks and all of our QBs sucked. This may come as a shock to you but I hope I'm fucking wrong about him. I don't give a shit about being right. I want our team to have a legit QB. Period. Believe whatever you want about Fields I don't care.
he’s been active and used as a 6th OL in jumbo/goal line looks. Gonna guess health isn’t the issue. I don’t think that’s what Ev’s getting at when he brings up the jets. Before/after drafting Wilson, they used prime assets, 1st rounders, 2nds, and other picks before round 5 on the OL in Beckton and Vera Tucker and the RT along with purchasing 2 FA that have paid dividends protecting the qb. Then they added WRs in FA and early in the draft, Garrett Wilson being a name he/you left out. Ev can tell me if I missed his point, but I interpret as the Jets are serious about their QB and his development. The bears and moves they’ve made prior to and after Fields have been nowhere close. The jets are doing it right. Wilson may still fail but you can’t say the jets could be doing more. Bringing up the bears moves from Poles since he’s started you could simply say what he’s done to better Fields’ position is malpractice. Prime assets sans Velus and what should be Riley Reiff have gone to the defense, which we’ve seen the same old non winning song and dance before. And again, two things can be true at the same time. It can be malpractice AND Justin deserves criticisms for missing/screwing up/hearing footsteps on few plays the OL actually does their jobs.
Daniel Jones found the endzone twice within the framework of the offensive gameplan. I don't care if he runs it in, throws it in, shoves the ball up his ass shoots it out into the hands of a receiver waiting in the endzone.....he put points on the board. Touchdowns, not field goals. The point of playing offense is to score points. Executing within the framework of the offensive is 100% of what we are talking about. If I did prove your point it was on accident because it's hard to figure out what your point is. My point is this....the team around Fields sucks. He's far from the only QB in the history of to be surrounded by shit. And plenty of guys have played better in like scenarios. Nit pick the shit out of it all you want....it's true. I wasn't really upset by his rookie season at all. I'm not totally upset with what he's doing now. He's going into game 5 in a new system surrounded by poop. He's too talented to continue playing like he is. My point....which hasn't changed once.....is other QBs have performed better in similar situations. I don't care how long Bridgewater has been in the league. If he came to the Bears right now he would put up career worst numbers. Because that's what the Bears do to QBs. Prove me wrong. You can't. Outside of one really great season from Erik Kramer.....name a time a Bears QB really stood out statistically as compared to his peers. Never. It never fucking happens. Why? You haven't. Every time someone names a QB that is surrounded by poor talent you're gonna pick 1 position player and say this is the reason they had it better. Or they had more experience in the league and this is why it's different. You've already set the parameters that make you right no matter what anyone else says. So have fun with that.
No GM has that option. You win in this league by building both sides of the ball. Only Bears fans think you have to do one or the other. Look around the league....teams that win consistently find ways to be strong on both sides of the ball.
Glad to hear you are on top of it and everyone's safe. But like blang I think you're fucking nuts here. Minnesota like Wisconsin has great outdoors stuff for the summer, and snowmobiling in the winter is fine, but goddamn I wouldn't want to live there. Coming up on 8 years now in Seattle and I do not miss the Chicago winters one fucking bit and Minnesota goes the wrong fucking direction there, heh. If my wife didn't hate the heat I'd be looking at Texas as I don't even like the mid-40s/50s we get here in winter.
My wife and I find this kind of thing so funny, how different people can be. As much as y'all hate the cold, that's how much we hate the heat. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we're excited for Minnesota winters - that's our biggest hurdle in moving up there - but it beats the hell out of Florida pretty much year round. Our weather just dipped down to the low 80's this week, and everyone here is fucking ecstatic. It's like the entire State just went on vacation. But that'll last for a few more days at most. In high school, I'd be outside playing football and rehearsing with the drumline every day all summer. The real-feel temperature was never under 100, and you'd be lucky if there was even the slightest wind for a brief moment. I remember telling myself that I was tough for getting through it. As an adult, I don't really give a shit about "tough". That shit was miserable, and it still is. I'd rather spend the next 10-15 years learning to hate winter than continue hating summer. Besides the weather, Florida is awful. I'm not gonna rain on Blang's parade - and if he's got enough money or doesn't need primary education for kids, he can mitigate a lot about what sucks - but this place is falling apart. The area that Blang is looking at is probably among the most liveable spots, but I can't be sure for how much longer. And lord knows I'll be happy to never prep for / see / clean up after another hurricane. Comes a time in everyone's life where you're looking for a change. Ours just happens to be a little colder than we'd probably like. But it'll be nice to have a season other than "everything is melting".
