I liked this cos im glad you shared it, but its actually sickening. This isn't just a single player putting in a C- rep, this is 3 clean F's on one play. So I ask again, who does any better back there on this play? Give me a fucking name. Cos I see the QB doing everything right on that play. He's got a pass rusher coming right down his throat, he knows he's getting smashed in the mouth yet still he hangs in, he lets the ball go and puts it right on the money. And I don't wanna hear this its only one play crap. I looked it up, Fields took 7 combined sacks/QB hits in this game, he only attempted 11fucking passes!!! You've got someone getting beat clean on nearly every drop back, and in reality many of those times its multiple people getting beat clean. And guys aren't sure if the OL really played that bad?? WOW.
Totally agree and it is an utter indictment of George fucking McFuckskey that this debacle has unfolded the way it has. Knowing your GM's seat is on fire a trade up like that where the future gets mortgaged should never happen without your personal ok, and if you're prepared to ok a huge move like that then you'd better fucking believe in the player. And if you do believe in him then you'd better make it crystal clear that any wannabe GM's who aren't prepared to legit try and make it work with Fields need not apply. TWO top10 overall picks, you motherfuckers. Its very obvious from the personnel moves this offseason that Poles & Eberflus don't give a F about Fields. I don't actually buy the tank theory, but I do think they are in on a multi year ground up rebuild and if you hire a Defensive HC he's obviously gonna want to build the D first. Thats what this is, the same Stone Age shit its always been from the Bears. As for %'s, its prob no more than 25% and it might be less than that. Its hard enough for a QB to make it in this league and that's when teams actually try to help them a la the Jets. The question to me is which happens first, the Bears giving up/moving on from Fields or them outright ruining him.
Missing some context: Justin is creating much, if not all, of that additional time with his feet. This is also directly linked to his off target percentage, because he is throwing from pressure. Also, the separation for target increases once the designed play breaks down and receivers go to scramble mode. The live game shows a receiving group that is not getting immediate separation for a couple reasons - the first being the play calls, the second being the skill level of the receivers.
His slow processing time + windup have a lot to do with that. Best QBs always get the ball out quickest. And if the separation of the target increases so much with the added time, it's even more of an indictment against him that his off-target % is 2nd worst in the league. But keep the excuses coming.
A good place to start would be to understand the premise and work the discussion from there. It might fuck up your narrative, but it's honest conversation.
Campbell, here's a cherry picked example from last night that refutes each excuse you made above: You see in this clip that Fields has a completely clean pocket to throw from. Equanimius St Brown beats his CB at the top of the field and is absolutely running free for a TD. Fields either sees him and decides he doesn't like the read, or doesn't see him, either way it's a check down and failed third down. I base my opinion on some combination of the eye test and stats (both next gen and traditional). Right now none of that is working in Fields favor. It could be that 1) none of it his fault and it's due to the incompetence around him, 2) some of it his is fault and some the fault of the team, or 3) entirely his fault. I'm not arguing #3. I'm saying the shit we've seen so far is due to our seriously depleted roster and a QB who is not showing progress at the beginning of year 2. It seems a perfectly reasonable position to hold yet apparently you and few others are not willing to hear legit criticism of Fields. Ev went as far to suggest that if Fields fails it will only be due to the Bears mismanagement of him. I've seen a lot already that I don't like, and not enough that I do. I gotta call like I see it.
I commented on the lack of context in that tweet, not on whether or not Fields is struggling on the field. I never said he was beyond criticism. That is a look that Justin should absolutely recognize as a competitive chance for the receiver, regardless of how far he may need to push it over the top and to the sidelines, and take the shot. Yep, and that's what the board is for. My point remains with my original post - The context for those stats is missing, and even though Justin deserves criticism when he fails there also has to be an understanding of what those numbers mean, the situation that the Bears have put themselves/Fields into and how that is going to affect his overall game in year 2. Chicago won't face a truly suspect defense this season until week 11, so the focus should be on how to grow the foundation blocks they plan to keep on offense while remaining competitive. Fields should be considered one of those pieces at this point. If you believe he is a failure now, that's your opinion and I'm not arguing against it. I disagree, but you won't find me saying he's without fault. As for the offense - I have a lot of issues with how they are utilizing the talent they have and what the primary identity of the O should be. However, it's week 2 and I have to give the coaching staff a bit of a pass until we see whether or not they have a plan they are working toward.
For every bad throw/decision under pressure, we see a bad throw/decision with a clean pocket. Same thing happened last week. That's why I'm seriously concerned at this point.
The game plan had him throwing 11 times against the Packers. They should have looked to create sudden passes, swings, screens and involvement from weapons that didn't rely on the line protecting him, or even rely on him making deep progressions. The Bears don't have an identity on offense yet, and that is going to slow down any growth by Fields. The shotgun QB draw on 4th is a low confidence play call, and so was the early flea flicker. This coaching staff, even though it likely knows they are talent deficient with offensive weapons, has to get away from fearful play calling. This should be a power running team where all 3 backs are getting in the rotation, some sets with more than one back on the field and play-action passing to help the receivers get early separation.
Which is where I don't hate the idea of them stockpiling picks, unloading veteran contracts, and doing the full rebuild. That plan, as it were, is fairly solid. Pace was sold in 2018 that this team was ready and also was really blindly hoping that Mitch would pan out. He didn't and the rest is history. That bill had to be paid eventually. I don't think they are tanking either, I didn't mean to put it that way. I think they are rebuilding the defense / multi year rebuild, and with Fields, it's a "you show you're a star on your own, or we draft your replacement in a few years". If they spend those interim Fields years of accumulating surrounding talent for the *next* QB, the plan isn't terrible. But it also gives Fields the worst chance to develop and be the guy. I've seen the 11 passes thing thrown around a lot today, and it's true, but it occurred to me that those are only the plays where he got a pass off. The sacks for instance don't count. Per this it was 14: Bears vs. Packers - Team Statistics - September 18, 2022 - ESPN - so the 11 attempts + 3 sacks. Where I fall in this debate, is that the line absolutely blew ass in pass pro, but Fields also held onto the ball a bit and made some bad throws without any of the wow awesome throws. The kid has a lot to work on, and I don't think we're going to see him turn it around. His fault or the coaching staff or Poles giving him no help, kind of doesn't matter. He's going to end up not being the guy. And I really hope to hell I'm wrong. I see blang's point, even if I don't agree yet because it's just way too early. I mean, that one where he overthrows the WR by about 5 yards on the deep shot, that's not great. The one where he's a solid 2-3 yards past the line of scrimmage before throwing? Poor awareness. That Kmet drop didn't help matters either. GB reading the shit out of that screen and Kmets piss poor blocking? Doesn't help him either. It all adds up to a shit sandwich with so many people to blame. Is it fixable? Much of it, I think so. Might be the homer in me. The Texans are in our boat of suck. It may not be the easiest game of the year, but it will be close. Gotta see some improvement, from Fields, the D, special teams, the line, etc, etc.
Yeah....no one has ever seen Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, or Ben Roethlisberger hold the ball too long. Not ever. Insert jerkoff emoji here. Fields does need to unload the ball quicker. But if the Bears are gonna run a pass quick offense....we need to see quick open routes. Rubs and play schemes designed to create quick open windows. I haven't seen that through two games, has anyone else?
It would be nice to see that as long as they do let him take shots downfield, picking the right spots to make those calls. I actually think his deep ball accuracy might be his best strength, even with the slow release. The time is now against the Texans, not next game, not at Christmas, now. Open the damn playbook up, take some chances and try to build some confidence for the whole offense.
Well if nothing else its good to get some back and forth going again, and with this team who could've predicted it would revolve around the QB position?!! At the risk of ruining the ending, you do realise that if Fields does in fact fail it will be objectively virtually impossible for you to prove this statement wrong. Outside of another 50picks like the one in the SF game(which isn't going to happen), for it to be proved wrong it won't just take Fields playing badly, it will at the same time take WR's consistently generating separation and giving him open targets, TE's who can catch and it will take the O-Line to actually pass block well and consistently give him time/clean pockets. And im gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not going to happen, not on this Offense, not this season. The wild card in all that is Getsy. If he started tailoring this offence to people's strengths instead of weaknesses then that could go a long way to helping everybody out. But im gonna have to see that one to believe it cos not much that's happened thru 2 weeks suggests he gets it, even allowing for the fact he was up against 2 admittedly tough Defenses.
I know you mean deciding to throw etc, but on this subject what do you make of the actual release? There was some talk last season about is his throwing motion a little elongated? He hasn't thrown many balls this season to judge but I did wonder if the mechanics of this had just been tightened up a little in the offseason?
When I was watching videos from training camp it looked to me like the release has been sped up. And then in preseason games I thought it was inconsistent. One throw looked quick...another I saw the long wind up again. I see the same again in regular season so far. His footwork has definitely changed. They noted that in sunday nights commentary during the game as well. A lot of inconsistency for sure. But if he's practicing as hard as all the beat reporters say we should see on field results this season. If we don't then maybe blang and others are right.
Well we can debate that if and when it happens. Obviously I want him to be guy and my whole objective for this season was to see major progress from him, win/loss record be damned. There is the possibility that Getsy won't change a thing with the # of pass plays called and the types of passes called this season. And Fields defenders will get to fall back on that and with some merit. But what I've seen leaves me discouraged.
Mitch never had all of those things perfect either, but I think by the end of it we all had enough tape to say, yeah, his ceiling is a middle of the road guy. And Mitch's first season also had crap around him. Davis Mills has a better stat line than Fields at this point, and we're about to see how much talent they've surrounded him with. I guess I agree the playbook hasn't helped him, and man, he had such support in the run game sunday night, things like PA really should have worked - did they call any? Seemed like a lot of shotgun for the RPOs, but not much PA. He also has little surrounding talent. That said, the elites, outside of some exceptions, show they are exceptional early, and Fields definitely has not yet. Hoge and Jahns said when they drafted Fields that they didn't have to "squint" as much to see the potential vs Mitch, and I think that's some real revisionist history, and being a bit rosy to Fields. You do have to "squint" right now to see the potential diamond. My favorite bit about all this though, is that we have at *minimum* the rest of this season to see how Fields will develop. And he would have to be an absolute dumpster fire, meaning games like the last two all season, for them to cut bait this quickly. And even then, I think there's a decent chance that they keep him regardless, and with the draft picks start to build around him. After *next* year is over if they don't think he's the guy, maybe then is the time to pull the trigger on a QB to enter a good situation. It's both not all that fair to Justin, but also he's still going to get at least some shot. What I would honestly hate, is for Fields to turn out to be a Mitch-level not-the-answer and the Bears stick with him after that much is clear. It's so much worse to be a middle of the road not good enough, rather than a dumpster fire Cade McNown where it's easy to let him loose. I still think it's way too early to make up my mind and say he's a bust. But then again, who was it that called Nagy as a loser first? I can't remember if it was blang or Ev, but you guys nailed it way the fuck before the rest of us, heh. I was still searching for the whys.
Let's ask ourselves, what about Fields had our hopes high in the first place? Athleticism (that boy is fast, and can ACCELERATE) Arm strength Deep ball ability Comes from a high-level program, playing against top competition Am I missing anything? Those are really the highlights. Now, I think we have to ask - is this offense currently playing to his strengths? Are we seeing plays designed specifically to take advantage of his athleticism? Are we seeing plays designed to set him up for the deep ball successfully? Are we seeing plays utilizing outs, etc, that take advantage of his arm strength? I can't say that we really are. The other part is that he clearly worked on getting through his reads in the offseason / the coaching staff has made it a focus for him, but he clearly doesn't feel comfortable yet. To the earlier example, showing him missing a wide open deep man, there's no way that's his fault naturally. If anything, coming out of college his fault was that he was constantly looking for the deep ball and needed to be aware of the underneath / checkdowns. He's not Captain Checkdown like we've had at QB in the past, and he definitely trusts his arm enough to make those throws (rightfully so). So how does he go from that to missing a clearly open man downfield with time in the pocket? His first preseason game, he was getting to his third and fourth read REALLY quickly. In that video, it looks to me like he's already moved past that deep read by the time the guy gets open. That's too fast, I think. He needs to get comfortable with his reads, not just go faster. That's where I think his next step is. We'll see if he gets there.
