You know, I played against this guy in high school, he went to my favorite college, and then he went to my favorite pro team... by all accounts, I should like him. Root for him especially, right? But for some reason, I never did. Now I know why. Get fucked, Pat.
I got a good chuckle out of this, but the Rams are definitely not Detroit. 3yr/45m is not that expensive, I thought he wanted $20m/yr to play for the Bears? I dunno, him dogging routes really soured me on him entirely, can't be happy for him. As a person and her part in the history of the league I will be sad. As owner of the Bears, death is her only exit so I won't be sad about that, at all. He can join Amos and Peppers in the list of people who can get fucked. FTP as they say. It might be just me, but I am beyond glad Pace did end up picking Fields, regardless of if he pans out or not, because it means are are not in the DeShaun Watson sweepstakes. I get it, they didn't have enough for a criminal trial, but much like Ray Rice and Tyreek Hill other dirtbags in the NFL, he can go get fucked. The fact that the media is given him LeBron James "descision-esque" coverage makes me hate him all the more. There are few people I actively cheer against but he's definitely on that list. And the Browns "lose" the sweepstakes and piss off their best QB in ages, hilarious (I don't even hate the Browns, but man if that isn't some Lions-esque self-sabotage I don't know what is). Also in FTP news, the Packers ship off Adams, that's another way they are going to stay under the cap Pat, they got back a 1st and 2nd and don't have to pay him. I'd love to say this will piss of Rodgers, but he will be fine, the good news is WRs take longer to develop so thankfully they won't be as loaded there by the time he moves on.GB will still have the division next year, but they also are going to be a weaker team than this year. Won't mean much when we get fucking stomped, again.
In fairness, I'll post when a credible source (Rapaport, Peliserro, Mort, Schefter) suggests it. Obviously, he's in LA, but at the time when posted, Detroit talked with him, probably wasn't in his price range for them--and went with DJ Chark who took a 1 year prove-it deal for less than ARob got from LA hot dogging last year. I'm happy for him. He was a good soldier here with bad QBs and a knowing double-team coming a lot of plays and he mostly did what asked--and as of now (I'm 33), the best WR I've seen in a bears uniform. More than Marshall, Jeffery, Marcus Robinson's great year in the late 90s/early 2000s, Bobby Engram about the same time, Bernard Berrian, Curtis Conway, the Moose, and anybody else you want to put in here. And, well, if Poles keeps away from FA, might just add a 3rd or 4th rounder next year--as opposed to that pick being gone because Pace traded it away to move up to take a damaged player. That'd be a first.... The best part about it, was the Packers were willing to match the 5 year, 141 QB money deal and he told them to trade him anyways to play with Derek Carr, on the worst team in a stacked AFC West. But also his buddy/college QB at Fresno State. You're also right, Rodgers will be fine. Saw a stat in non-playoff games 7 games since 2019 that Rodgers has played without Davante he has averaged 69% completion, 293 yards, 2.7 TDs, 0.14 INTs and 117.9 rating--the Packers are 7-0. GB will still have the division, Minny is rebuilding (but probably has a very scary defense moving to a 3-4 with Ed Donatell but LOL at paying Kirk again). I need to see more from Poles and especially Getsy before I have a feeling about the bears these next couple of years. I expect to get stomped 2x by GB and then some--like assuming Poles doesn't give away draft picks like Halloween candy, Bears probably are picking top 5 in 2023 draft. I despise going back to a 4 man front schematically--and Flus not calling plays but a bum with a resume of trash now is going to be doesn't give me any confidence. College and HS changed 2 decades ago which is why the 3-4 became so popular and present in the league, to match the speed and increase the amount of guessing opposing QBs have to do about who's coming after him/who's not. The new trend which is now creeping into the NFL from HS/College is the 3-3-5, which Arizona ran often as did Baltimore on occasion. A 4-3 is suicide in today's game where speed and skill kill--and with less and less college teams running it, finding guys from college to match the NFL scheme is harder/more of a gamble. It should have been fucking apparent under Lovie and Tucker, but I'm not reopening that wound. Teams with explosive speed can't wait to put a speedy, shifty, talented slot WR against a linebacker (if you thought I complained about Buster Skrine being garbage/target practice before...) Der FLus runs a 4-2-5 80% of the time, which better counters modern offensive use of speed in scheme, but is by no means going to get you a dominating defense. I know dominating defense isn't the goal, having a competent offense is. Now its less fun knowing the fuckers up in chedderland get to pick 2x before the bears in the draft while also having their big needs be OL and WR. Thanks Pace. After ARob to LA, I'm going to ask the same question about them and the salary cap and how they fit everything under it.
I'm really glad ARob signed with the Rams before the Packers traded Adams. Would like to see Hekker in a Bears uniform.
Wow. It seems Ogunjobi failed his physical. Deal's off. Thats disappointing, huge hole at 3 Tech once more.
Good news - they caught something before he signed and screwed cap hit for the next few years with an injured player. Bad news - they're back where they started, with a meaningful hole, and have missed opportunities to otherwise spend that money. Look, put an offense around Fields. Protect him. That's all I care about, this year. That's just where I'm at, and don't expect anything more. My hockey team kicks ass right now - I can distract myself for another year or two while the Bears suck.
Justin Jones is the replacement for Ogunjobi. 25 years old. More run stuffer than pass rusher. At least Poles responded quick on this one.
This is an interesting take pat. Haven't you been less than complimentary about Marshall in the past? You were firmly on Cutler's side in the war of the locker room i believe. Well Marshall was a head case, locker room cancer etc etc. Yet ARob shits on his team for basically an entire season with not a single fuck given and he's a good soldier. Very interesting. Regardless, Marshall is the best WR in modern times ever to pull on a Bears jersey, by a comfortable boat length. Stats wise there is virtually no measure in which ARob was superior to Marshall and more than that, the eye test said the same thing. Marshall was a physically imposing force who could be outright dominant, good as he was(and he was good), ARob was never that. Hell half the time Bears fans debated if he was a legit #1(he was, but point made). So ARob > Marshall? Hell. No. That said, i was hoping for him to get as big a FA deal as possible, just so it would help our comp pick situation. There was a time i was a huge fan and def would've wished him the best, but after the shit he pulled last season fuckim. $15mil per? Its good money, but its not the 18-20 he would've hoped for. Last seasons antics probably cost him some $. This i couldnt agree more with. And your thoughts on the way HS/C defensive play is evolving only adds weight to it. This feels like a step back.
Wow that was quick! I mean i dont know much about Jones tbh, but impressed at the reaction speed of Poles. Is this just coincidence and Jones would've been lining up next to Ogunjobi? Or is the contingency planning this good?
Al Quadin Mohammed at DE. 2 year 10 mil. 6 sacks last year at DE for Flus, improving every year and will be 27 at the start of this coming year. Like it. As for Ogunjobi, he had "minor" foot surgery in January. Obviously in March, he was not better. The tampering period was zoom-based and when he showed in person and got checked by docs they knew. This chargers kid they signed, Justin Jones is a run stuffer, not a 3 tech. Meaning 3 tech is going to have to be drafted unless you work out a deal later if Larry can pass a physical. Disagree. At the peak of both WRs here, Marshall's the superior athlete, no question. Everything else? Route running, catch radius, contested catches, dependable hands--everything you want in a WR that isn't a smurf--its Allen Robinson. Marshall could be imposing when he wanted to be, but just too inconsistent. He was always towards and even was at the top of the league in drops while Robinson's worst year for drops--2019 with 7 was middle back of the middle of the pack (leader had 16 drops that year). In a league today where speed at WR is deadly and prioritized/fought for by teams every opportunity to draft and sign it versus a decade ago when it was size that mattered because 6'3 with crazy speed was a unicorn back in the day as opposed to now when its coming out every draft. I remember we were pissed for years the bears kept rolling with 'smurfs' that we wanted the Devin Aromashodus of the world to be even decent and compliment Rasheid Davis, Johnny Knox and Earl Bennett. Robinson has done the far more impressive task of being a valued (he dogged it last year and got more from LA than the bears paid him while not on the Franchise tag), WR without breakneck speed in a modern NFL that demands it. I think that's greater merit. Then there's the whole 'who was throwing to him,' and while I've been the staunchest of Jay fans but have accepted he never wanted to be better/just good enough to break your heart--and will own that (and still believe he's the best QB in this franchise's history which isn't saying all that much)--he was better than Mitch, Gabbert, Foles, and Andy. If you're a WR which QB do you want staring you down for a 'must catch?' I've been less complimentary of Marshall, mainly attacking him for the off-field stuff and sometimes dumb on-field stuff. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't give Robinson the same criticism for quitting and hot dogging it last year on Nagy if I do for Marshall on Trestman. But in Robinson's defense, you knew the writing was on the wall with him when he got tagged with the GM on record saying the interest was keeping him long term but then no deal and he's on social media saying the bears weren't offering him anything. I think Marshall was the bigger asshole. He got paid then just quit when the going got tough.
Oh I never doubted he was in talks with Detroit, I was just saying where he ended up is a FAR better situation for him. The only real downside there is they are already stacked at WR so there's a lot of competition. Probably doing stupid shit like the Bears did, pushing void years and such down the road. The Rams really went hard all in, picks and money, and it paid off. But the piper has to be paid at some point, I would think. Up until last year, I was right with you. There's no question Marshall was the bigger headcase so when the wheels started to come off, it was worse for him. A Rob just went the "I don't give a shit" route. But the thing that gets me about this, is he isn't dogging it because he's saddled with "a shitty QB". He was dogging it on the brand new model, kid learning the ropes in the league, who needed someone reliable. And it's clear A Rob had completely checked out and was collecting a check. Fuck that and fuck him. You can argue all day he didn't get a new contract and he's hurt over the lack of guarantee, but he did also get paid $17.8 fucking million to dog routes, which is more than his new contract - and likely that contract is lower *because* he dogged it last year. I guess I don't have a dog in this race of who was really worse, Marshall or Robinson. Fuck them both in the way they left, they weren't screwed like other players the Bears have done dirty. But I'm also happy for the good times we had with both of them. How it goes with WRs I guess.
From a fan's standpoint, I get it. You want the best out of your players and a franchise tag kept a great player. For a guy who made 2 bust top 10 NFL draft pick QBs look like passable NFL starters, got the shaft after getting injured in Jax, then fulfilled/outplayed his contract and then some only to get tagged--which fans/FO people love but players obviously don't for a multitude of reasons, I understand when the GM says you're in the long term plans before doing the opposite along with continued stupidity from Nagy why he'd mail it in. There's no protection, no incentive, and knowing Nagy/Pace were walking into a do/die year and Nagy tripling down on his shitty scheme while being unconscionably inflexible wouldn't convince many to give it their all either. I will blame Robinson (and Fields, and Nagy for forcing the Ginger down our throats as the starter) for getting so minimal reps together in training camp. You would have like to have seen him make the effort on a kid being taken a chance on as the future. Do I agree with him dogging it on my favorite team? No. Do I get why he or any player would with no protections, no long-term deal after having that expectation be set being on a 1 year deal when he's already proven he's your top guy and still on the right side of 30? Yes. Everybody agreed he wasn't a tier 1 WR nor should get paid like it and only an idiot would make an argument otherwise. If Arob did what he did last year on a fresh 4 year deal like Marshall got--I'd have a very different stance, but I understand half-assing a year in his situation. It'd have been nice to keep him. It was also time for a fresh start and he still got paid.
He had better hands for sure, thats it. Everything else is a wash or goes to Marshall. You can say Robinson was better at contested catches if you want, but you dont get to say he was the better route runner in the same breath. Truth is the reason ARob made so many tight window catches is cos he so often couldnt get separation in the first place. Marshall was inconsistent was he haha? Marshall owns the all-time franchise records for most catches in a single season, most catches in back to back seasons and most catches over 3 consecutive seasons. All he did was sets records in Chicago. So yeah, basically the exact opposite of inconsistent. Very interesting tho that drops are the only numbers mentioned in your entire post. Exhibit A: This entire passage is just a long way of saying i have no numbers to bring to this discussion cos they all favour the other guy. Allow me briefly: Marshall in 3 seasons with the Bears had two seasons that were better than Robinson's best despite him being on the team 4 years. Robinson never got close to Marshall's 1,500yard season. He didnt get that close to his near 1,300 yard season either. TD receptions is embarrassing. ARob averaged 4.5 TDs a season with the Bears. Even if we were being kind and pretended last season didnt exist, the average is still under 6. Marshall averaged just over 10TD's a season. He has nearly double ARob's number in one season less. Marshall was a weapon in the redzone, Robinson was just a guy. Oh and ARob never even sniffed a pro bowl, even as a replacement. Marshall went to 2 in 3 seasons as a Bear including fucking first team all-pro! I was just waiting for this excuse lol. Pat, Jay was a bum. Im sorry but you really need to accept this. Trubisky actually has a better career QB rating, better completion % and better TD-INT ratio than Cutler. He also had 1,000 x times the work ethic and was 1,000 x a better team mate than Cutler. And you think Cutler is gonna become some kind of crutch to your argument? This is getting silly. Ok now you're just making shit up. This isnt cool dude. Marshall got a rightful extension after putting up astronomical numbers. The following season he didnt quit, he did the opposite of quitting. He got hurt in week 2 at San Fran and despite being diagnosed with a high ankle sprain they expected to cost him 3weeks he played the very next game against the Jets which they won. He slogged all the way thru to december playing hurt and not missing a game i believe before he finally broke down. ARob tweaked his hammy and managed to string it out for like 5 weeks cos he's a turd. Please gtfoh with this nonsense. I dunno what it is about that time period pat but whenever it comes up you go full CCS on us. Its like Cutler warped your brain.
I like Dane Cruickshanks. Has some wicked hits (him blowing up Jonathan Taylor was something) and him getting better every year at SS next to Ejax who you're stuck with--I don't mind. Who do we like/dislike in the draft? Its a couple weeks away. Don't get the love with George Pickens. I want one of Perrion Winfrey, Davonte Wyatt, Khalil Shakir, Trent McDuffie, or Zion Johnson at 38. Ogunjobi and Poles have stayed in contact apparently. Google is your friend. In 2012, Marshal had an exceptional year with 1508 yards in 16 games. Not arguing that. In 13, he had 1295 in 16 games, #1 WR stuff, but not astronomical as he wasn't even top 10 in WR that year. In 2014? The 1st year of his new, big 4 year deal? 721 yards in 13 games. And you want to blame injuries? But my brain is warped? K. I'll own liking Jay. I'll own making excuses for the shitwad moments, because I'm sure if you dig deep enough in the message board vaults here you'd find it. But to argue a 3 year snippet of Mitch--who got released without a 5th year option, signed somewhere else to be a back up before taking a new deal to be in a 3 man battle for starter in Shittsburgh now--over a guy a team gave up multiple 1sts for and started 8 years here...well--its a dumb hill to die on. You don't have to like Jay. You're certainly allowed to hate a lot of his play, but to argue Mitch is better? LOL. The data says otherwise. That you would jump to "its a wash" for categories Robinson is superior to Marshall but double down on where he was better in shows you lack the argument. I'll tell you what though, if Robinson hot dogs it on his new deal the way Marshall did here in 2014 before getting traded, call me out, and I'll venmo/paypal you a case of Old Speckled Hen (the best British brew you can get in the US IMO) or whatever case you like. Hold me to that.
Wow. Ev. I mean, come on bro. Trubs is a better QB than Shitwad? Hate him all you want, he was a thousand times better, stats be damned. I mean completion % and better TD-INT ratio? Captain Checkdown did nail those under 10 yard throws sure, those all are higher percent throws and lead to less ints. At their respective primes, it's really not even close. I'm at a loss for words. I guess this is how you know it's the offseason.
Those first two years are still better than anything ARob produced on the Bears buddy. Saying he wasn't a top10 wr in 2013 is the kind of silly number manipulating to fit narrative that SAS does on the Browns board. Marshall was 11th in yards, 5th in receptions & T-3rd for TDs lol GTFOH not a top10 receiver. There's no way for you to spin those 2 seasons to your benefit pat, they happened and they were better than anything Robinson did on the Bears. 2014 yes Marshall played hurt a lot of that season and there's no question it affected this numbers to some degree, its not a question of blame its what happened just be mature enough to accept it. How much his numbers were affected can be open to debate but to save us all time i'll just point out that Marshall's down year, regardless of reasons why, was still nearly double what Robinson did in his down year in terms of yards & receptions. Also, Marshall still had 8TD's! Robinson had ONE haha!! 1 fucking TD all year long lololololol. Dig deep enough haha? Pat no one needs dig for jack shit, its common knowledge what a slurper you were for Cutler. Blang and I(and prob others) must've pointed and laughed a hundred times at that shit. But honestly, that was just the symptom, it wasn't the cause. What you really need to own is the symptom ie with extremely few exceptions you plant your flag early on a player and will stubbornly keep it there no matter what. When you get it right, which does happen plenty, it looks good. But the problem is when you get it wrong you make yourself look like a fool. Cutler isn't even the best example of this, Matt Forte is. You hated him from the start and never had a good word to say. Year after year you stuck to it and each year it made you look worse. In recent times RRH is another example. You always said he was a worthless bum and would never get paid after leaving the Bears. I tried many times to explain to you that while he hadn't panned out as the Bears had hoped he would get paid. What happened? He got paid. Marshall is just a less extreme example of this. You dont rate him so you try to talk him down. Im willing to suggest you were an ARob fan from early on, which is why in your eyes he was the best the Bears have ever seen and we'll just not talk about the year he shat all over the team. We'll talk about Marshall being a cancer cos that's ok, but we'll pretend it never happened with ARob even tho he was such a turd he couldn't even be arsed blocking for his QB who was running for his life and a hammy tweak last 5 weeks! Amazing that this needs to be said given you're not a kid posting anymore, but its ok for your opinion on a player to evolve as the facts/production on the field change. This is exactly what im talking about. You want to pretend ARob's last season on the Bears never happened so to aid your weak ass case you concoct some bizarre strawman comparison that makes no sense whatsoever. You wanna compare their final seasons in Chicago? No problem, doesnt really work out well for ARob tho does it. If you wanna compare their next season on a new team, well it has nothing to do with being the Bears best receiver anymore does it but ok. Marshall went 109catches, 1,502yards, 14TD's. With the fucking Jets. You wanna bet beer that Robinson hits those numbers with the Rams next season? Thought not. Hell he won't hit one of em.
Congratulations on completely missing the point varder. I'll get to the "who was better" part in a second but first im gonna stay on point here. Pat is trying to assert that one of the reasons ARob was better than Marshall was that Marshall had dramatically better QB play which presumably inflated his numbers. My point is that is bullshit. If we were talking about one wr playing with a consistent top10/pro bowl level QB and the other playing with a consistently bottom 10 bum, this might matter. But that simply isnt the case. Cutler under-achieved his entire time in Chicago. He couldn't make a pro bowl, couldn't break a weak ass franchise passing record, couldn't throw for 30TDs in a season, HE WAS NOT GOOD. Neither was Trubisky, but thats my point. Neither WR benefitted enough from the QB play for it to make any meaningful difference in a Marshall V ARob debate. Now, to the debate you are trying to make this into. Cutler was not 1000x "better" than Trubisky.1000x more talented? Ok. But it didnt translate to 1000x better play. Thats what the Trubisky's numbers show, thats why i referenced them. But if you have numbers showing how great Cutler was then please present them! I'll start you off, in 8 years Cutler had 1 season in Chicago with a 90+ QBR. ONE!!! A 90QBR isnt even very good btw lol. Cutler's prime you say?? When the F was that?! But i will just point out to you that the year the Bears actually had a functioning semi high powered offense, with the same scheme and same players Cutler got totally outplayed by Josh fucking McCown!! Embarrassingly so. So please everyone GTFOH with this Quitler was a good QB crap lol. Taking everything into account Cutler v Trubisky is just a meh shrug of the shoulders. Neither was good, both failed on the Bears. Who gives a F which turd was slightly less smelly.
dline dropped this in a thread on the main board but its worth touching on here. I was all for a reset this year and a measured, thoughtful start from Poles, but this is starting to feel a little too measured. They signed a guy from the Packers to play C/G on a short term very modest deal. They signed a couple of (at best)3rd tier receivers on modest 1 year deals. For the offense, thats it. They were never gonna rebuild the offense in 1 FA period, but the bottom line from the end of last season remains the same, they need to put people around Fields to give him a chance. I'm not seeing it. They got another good draft pick by giving up Mack, but its not like the Bears have an embarrassment of riches going into this draft. You gonna put every pick in the first 5 rounds into the offense? Even that prob wouldnt be enough but at this rate but thats what you're gonna have to do to have even a chance. Again, all that matters to me this season is Fields. He has to develop so you have to give him the support to do that. At the very least you need to eliminate the excuses so you can accurately judge if he is the guy or not. Like dline says, can we even really say the Tackle positions are covered? I like Jenkins, but i cant form an opinion either way on if he's the answer at LT? Borom at RT? The question marks are adding up, and thats not even the interior where the REAL ?'s are. I sure would've felt better if they'd locked in a clear bonafide starter at G/C, which, lets be honest would only having been covering Daniels' departure anyway. Don't give us another 7year rebuild Ryan 2.
