Even if George W or Romney was president now mask wearing would be a non-issue. Everyone would do it. Was in Oberlin, Ohio this weekend visiting my brother. We went to Walmart to get some stuff for the BBQ we did on Saturday and I was astonished that the majority of the people there were not wearing masks. Inside a fucking store! Totally different from where I live in DC metro area, everyone here wears masks inside a public building. And the people who weren't wearing masks were all overweight, unhealthy looking white people, including those obese ladies on scooters. I've said enough callous things on this thread already but this is Darwinian evolution at work here. If these people remove themselves from the gene pool, because their dear leader doesn't like masks, it wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to us.
Everything he is saying and doing is reckless and he has many of those goose-stepping right behind him. They are saying it's all about the Constitution and "Muh Liberty", but in reality, the Constitution makes room with a clause to promote general welfare. Let me also preempt the possible barrage of comments from the weak-minded goose-steppers about the protesters not wearing masks as that was wrong and reckless too. Thank me as I didn't want you to look sillier than you are already are and spared you the indignity of looking stupid because one has nothing to do with the other.
Hatred ?? I don't think so. I think this is all more revenge driven than anything else. Is this country perfect ?? Hell NO !! But show me a country that is. The object here is to move on and learn from those mistakes. That doesn't seem to be happening here.
I think you're saying the same thing I am Socal.... revenge comes from fear as does hatred. I think there are lots of Americans who are invested in positive change and growth just as there are lots who oppose it.
Qualify and quantify these accepted terms like “wealth inequality” and “systemic injustice”. You’re a very smart guy BWW. What is your definition of “systemic injustice”.? Not poking - just asking.
Almost twice as many white people were killed by cops this year as blacks. No mention in the media. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
Blacks commit 50% of violent crime, including murders (95% of their murder victims are other blacks). So 13% of people committing 50% of violent crime. That doesn't mean that cops don't racially profile innocent blacks, they definitely do. But given the sheer disparity in races in terms if violent crime, it's easy to see why there are proportionally much higher police encounters between cops and blacks than cops and whites.
Sources: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....es-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883
These black children were murdered over the weekend. Why no protests or calls for justice for their murderers? It's clear that all black lives don't matter to BLM. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/us/children-killed-holiday-weekend/index.html
So this is the bullshit I'm talking about. When the topic of conversation starts at a man who begged for his life 20 times from a dipshit allowed to be on the police force while choking him out, and we talk about how to change the law enforcement system so shit like what happened to Floyd never happens again (police being judge, jury, and executioner when we say we have a justice system that is blind and everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty)--we once again run to our corners and pound the drums of defense, deflection, and talking points that "analysts" and pundits chime. But the problem doesn't get solved, does it? No. The conversation dies in the cross fire of bullshit. Because when we talk about how actions are needed so that police treat these situations differently; to de-escalate instead of profiling and possibly murdering, we jump straight to black on black crime or how whites get killed by police too or now how black children were senselessly murdered. Do we talk about how the 13% of black/AA population in the USA since the civil war has been grotesquely deprived of opportunity and money compared to other races? Do we talk about how to fix it? Do we talk about how the oppression still happens today (like how when Illinois legalized marijuana black sellers were profiled and found it much harder to start a business in selling pot?) No. We have to talk about how one idiot killing an innocent person or child. Said idiot in this instance happens to be black, so therefore the focus on the innocent man who begged for his life while it was being choked out of him falls by the wayside and we stop talking about it (until the next black person gets their life snuffed out by a micro-dick coward masquerading as a cop). The conversation stops because an ass clown with a talking point chimed the loudest on CNN or Fox or MSDNC. I don't see Congress getting off its ass to reshape modern police. I certainly don't see Mitch McConnell bringing anything to be voted on so it can go to Orange Julius' desk to be signed. George Carlin called it "the great, American okey doke!" I just call it the modern US standard of "standing." Its easy to say "I stand with X idea." But solving the problem through actions? We don't do that anymore without baggage and greasing palms of big corporations getting theirs first, second, third, fourth, then fifth (we haven't in a long time), and if you suggest doing it--you're crazy and vilified (look at what happened to the AOC girl in NY; whatever you think of her ideas--it's hard to miss how the DNC couldn't wait 2 years to primary her with a centrist republican wall street suck up). Plus its easier (and makes you look good) when you can convincingly say "I stand with...." This toxic, stupid mentality is a big part of the reason why this country is no longer the best in the world. It doesn't need to be when all you need to do is say some tough words and stand in your corner, pounding the table as hard as you can. Allow me to simplify so we can get the nonsense/deflection out of the way. Yes. Blacks kill blacks in the statistical numerals Blang provided. It's a problem that at the root cause we need to talk/act on wealth and opportunity to save said communities. No--this will not work at a 100%, but nothing works that perfectly--meaning black on black murder isn't going to stop 100%. Yes, whites are killed by cops too, sometimes by bad apples too. Also--Dangerous ones (like the kid who shot up the church in SC a few years back, or the kid with clown colored hair who shot up the theatre in Colorado years ago--I can keep going) get taken in alive. Black ones tend not to. A child being senselessly murdered is a child being senselessly murdered. Good people come in all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, sexual orientations and religions. So do bad people/assholes/predators. We've desensitized ourselves from this reality because its easier to joust back with a talking point to "win the argument" while playing victim because being gay/trans/colored/white/christian automatically means you're immune to criticism--which you're not. The televangelist shitstains like Joel Osteen who swears to follow that Jesus guy while taking his people's money, buying a jumbo private jet then constructing a mega-church that doesn't take in homeless or displaced people like when Houston got smashed by the hurricane a couple of years back. He didn't know he had to step up to help people--the new Jesus way. The easiest way to differentiate is to watch the actions. The shitbag senator Loeffler from Georgia "stood" with poor African American communities, she even bought stake in the Atlanta WNBA team and is a part owner. She plays the game and talks, then pundits say to respect her because she's brave. But you watch her do the inside trading, take huge money from corporate sponsors, then co-opts bills that help her corporate friends while hurting the poor AA communities she presides over and "stands with." Pundits then say she's the victim, because contrarianism--and I MUST stress this--while healthy to question--does not need to be applied in every. fucking. instance. We do it because that's what media/assholes want. You to look over there while they pick your pockets. Once we all stop subscribing to this incredibly lazy and witless mentality, and the talkers will have nowhere to hide--when you insist they propose solutions. Until we focus there--bullshit like this will keep happening, and shit's only going to get worse and more hyper-polarized than it already is.
No offense but the fact you need those terms quantified....or ask for them to be so you can later have a gotcha moment.....is very telling of your predetermined position on the subject matter. Here are some things I believe about our country...so I can clarify my position...because putting a limited definition on those terms is impossible. The powers that be from the local to the highest level don't care about the poor. Skin color matters less than financial and political influence. Our legal system is broken. And it benefits the rich and powerful while shitting on the poor. Not to mention the astounding percentage of poorly prosecuted cases from lazy DA's that still end with convictions despite so often figuring out later that the man or woman was innocent. The prison system is corrupt and unfair. There are people in power profiting from locking up citizens and using their lobby powers in government to keep those citizens locked up. Racial and social biases do exist and they are a problem. They have for a very long time. We are biased against the poor, biased against convicted felons even when they turn their life around. Biased against a lot. Biased against people that come here from other countries (Never usually white countries though, shockingly) because they are gonna take our jobs and have the audacity to want to make a better life for themselves. Racial profiling is real. And it has allowed bad cops to get away with bad things. Not sure why wealth inequality has to be explained but in short....the rich are always trying to get richer and in doing so typically step on the poor and kick them while they are down. The government bailout mega corporations that lay off tons of workers while giving massive bonuses to their executives. Public schools in wealthy neighborhoods get more funding and better treatment than schools in poor neighborhoods. Liberals are stupid, whiny cunts. They have made it hard to fight injustice because they are just that cunty. And there is a lot of bad coming from the left these days. But that shouldn't distract from the actual problems. Yes poor people commit crime. A lot. And a black guy in a car with tinted windows blaring his radio while driving too fast and having narcotics in the car shouldn't be surprised when a cop pulls him over. But....that cop should treat that black guy the same as he would a Mexican woman, a white guy, a 76 year old Hungarian peasant, or anyone else. But too often....that's not what happens. Your bank account, your gender, your skin color, your social and economic influence far too often dictates how you will be treated.\\ A stupid kid in a hoodie that is under the influence of drugs and alcohol shouldn't attack a wannabe neighborhood defender late at night. But that same neighborhood defender shouldn't have seen a threat in a stupid kid with a plastic bag in his hand that was just going home. Nor should the media and politicians have used the incident in such a disgusting manner to further their agendas. Cops shouldn't shoot men and women they are attempting to detain unless their lives are truly in danger....but far too often we learn that so many people, of all fucking colors, are shot in the back. People shouldn't break the law. They shouldn't steal cars, pass bad checks, run stop lights, smoke weed in the car, play loud music, get in fist fights, argue with cops, run from cops, shoplift, or countless other crimes of that nature. None of those crimes, however, are punishable by death. Telling a cop you have a gun in the car shouldn't end in your death when you are not reaching for or using the gun. When you say "I can't breathe" the asshole that has you in a chokehold or has a knee drilled into your back while his buddies have their guns pointed at you....SHOULD FUCKING LET GO. Ever notice that sometimes when rich people commit a crime and go to prison they are sometimes take a few months to "get their affairs in order" before reporting to prison? Ever see a poor person do that? Bottom line.....our entire system is a lot more friendly when you are rich and powerful and a lot more harsh when you are poor and nameless. That's injustice.
Patg, we just had massive nationwide protests (in the middle of a pandemic) that were triggered by the police murdering an unarmed black man. The premises for these protests were, among others, the following: there is systemic racism in America there is police brutality in America America doesn't care about black lives America must defund/abolish the police All of these premises might be true, or none of them might be true, or some of them might be true. The protests naturally triggered discussions on these premises in part because they were so massive and passionate, also because the protesters failed to produce tangible policy proposals, also because police violently suppressed many peaceful ones, and also because the protests were hijacked by violent thugs intent on destruction and vandalism. If we simply ignore the talking points on both sides of the debate about the discussions the protests triggered, we may as well just dismiss the whole reasons for the protests in the first place. Agree but you can't just dismiss the importance of dialogue in getting to a proposed solution. Real policy solutions come from when there is a consensus on solving a problem. What is a problem? How do you come to a consensus on what a problem is? There is a middle ground that can reached for solving any problem when people can agree on something, whether that thing is based in fiction or based on facts. Too often we have people cherry picking facts (as what Bear-man and D-line did, and I'm guilty as well) while ignoring other facts because it serves a narrative that makes them comfortable. This is another major cause of the polarization we have. Ideally, we reach consensus when people on all sides of the political spectrum accept all of the facts no matter what, then propose a policy change. But clearly that's something we're all struggling to do now.
I agree with you but the problem, in my opinion, is that when we discuss these issues it's never from a resolution standpoint. It's finger pointing and blaming and we never get around to solutions. Or when solutions are proposed the left shoots down the right and the right shoots down the left. It's political bullshit.
This is why nothing really changes at the moment it needs to and if it changes later hardly anyone notices. My opinion on what may fix a lot of systemic policing issues may be different from yours, but if we can separate those differences and focus on the common ground we could create a foundation for improved dialogue that may move the sticks some on both sides giving us a chance to make changes we both agree to, even if they are not our individually preferred method.
Its got nothing to do with ignoring talking points of both sides. Its about ignoring the talking points that have nothing to do with the conversation. An unarmed man died being in a choke hold for however many minutes he was--by the police, after begging for his life multiple times. I say ignore the idiots that muddy the waters by *insert black on black crime talking point/black shooting a child talking point/white people are criminals and get shot by cops too talking point* They have absolutely nothing to do with a man who was killed by a coward with a badge who decided his job was to be judge, jury, and executioner and the support system behind him and many like him who have given him/other cops qualified immunity. Minnesota taxpayers are now on the hook for the big payout to Floyd's family. Like Illinoisians to LaQuan McDonald's family. Like Minnesotans also to Phillando Castille. Like New York to Eric Garner. And no offense, I'm kind of tired paying for the stupidity of mental midgets with a badge and the wrong kind of chip on their shoulder. If doctors have to have malpractice insurance when they fuck up on a patient, cops don't have that why? Qualified immunity--but I'll get to that momentarily. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying black on black crime is a "nothing burger." Nor am I diminishing how children died by gunfire, or how white people are also not immune to police shooting/brutality. None of them have to do with the topic of discussion now, but that doesn't mean they are unimportant. Please understand that differentiation. Again, two things are allowed to be true at the same time. I've observed people suggest getting rid of qualified immunity for cops (that's the thing that gets them off the hook when they fuck up and kill people who aren't dangerous/threats), retraining cops, de-militarizing them, being like Camden, NJ PD--where to cleanse itself of bad apples and corruption, fire everybody--rehire those who pass comprehensive background checks/psych evals--all incredibly reasonable things. I've also seen politicians on both sides (mainly the right) say any talk of reasonable ideas is dead on arrival and Mitch wont bring it to a vote. The "real policy solutions" rebuttal? When most respond with "you want to abolish the police and let the inmates run the asylum!" Again, a deflection that stops the conversation cold. The underlying issue to lack of policy solutions is our relatively recent change of viewpoint on the word "compromise." Back in the day everybody gave a little to get a little. And there's nothing wrong with that. Now? You're weak if you compromise. Paul Ryan and John Boehner hyper-charged what Newt Gingrich started in the 1990s, and what the DNC lackeys have been gravitating gravitating towards: All democrats/republicans are a family and you don't cross/question/critique/challenge family. This entire dynamic has to change, as it's spiraled into "pork barrel spending." By that I mean simple policy solutions (for example: Every American has a right to clean drinking water), the main idea, in this case--clean drinking water gets lost by the wayside because we need spending for every other possible thing a greedy SOB can add to a bill. Stop questioning truth. Stop trying to outsmart it and just let it the fuck be. Talking points and facts have their place, just not in an enormous, generalized melting pot when the problem is something specific like clean drinking water, or changing American policing.
^ Oh so much this. Also this. Didn't the kid from Stanford a few years ago roofie a girl, rape her, then get off with less than 90 days (he was given 6 months total as a sentence) in prison because daddy knew the judge in NorCal? Think a poor, black/white/red/yellow/brown fellow will get under 90 days for doing that? Think they'd get 6 months in jail for roofying then raping someone?
