Its really funny whenever you consciously choose to play stupid just so you can provide some cover to your man crush Trump. Weren't you the guy just a few posts prior to this suggesting people do a little research.... and presumably open their minds and understand lol
Blang buddy you know i love you man. Which is why I let this slide the first time, but... Maybe its not that the media or whoever is too cowardly to answer, maybe its that your question is so fucking ignorant and heartless that is doesn't deserve being answered. Step back a moment and think about what you're actually saying here, because it screams "this virus hasn't affected me or my life in any serious way and i don't understand the consequences". Hundreds of thousands of families being torn apart is acceptable to you??? 1- No, its not, or at least it shouldn't be. 2- If you look at the simple numbers of how often these types of police brutality killings occur(and yes of course i accept they're all horrible and none should happen), is it even double figures per year? Its not is it, but let's be super generous and say for argument sake its 100 per year. At 100per year it would literally take thousands of years of this happening before you balance out, from a numerical point of view, the numbers of people you are happy to write off here. 3- Point 2 is insane. 4- And most importantly, this is not some conventional military conflict or battle where a certain amount of people have to die before we can declare "victory". You can achieve your goals AND hundreds of thousands of people don't have to die. You have taken zero account of timing in all of this. Again, i love you man you're the best, but this particular line of argument? The worst work i've seen from you in about 12years.
If that's the criteria he should move to Scotland which has the best golf courses in the world. He just has to grow some hair on his nutsack by being able to keep down a plate of haggis first.
Ev, I think you completely misunderstood. Point 2 is insane and it's not my fucking point at all. In no way am I suggesting that the number of lives saved from fixing police brutality should equal to the lives lost as a result of the protests for this to be a "victory". My concern is why did so many support this movement right in the middle of a pandemic? Yes, the timing is everything! I've always supported the right to protest and I believe some positives have come out of these protests: the arrests and charges of the officers involved in George Floyd's murder, the majority of people seemingly aware of police brutality and urgent need for reform. Perhaps more positives will emerge soon. But it's precisely because I don't want to see more loss of life(!!!!) that I ask the question, why are we supporting this now? Is it worth it? Many ignore how these protests likely spread the virus exponentially among asymptomatic young people. Interestingly, Los Angeles County now leads the nation in # of cases, that was a city that saw tens if not hundreds of thousands of protests two weeks ago. It bothers me that people only seem to care about loss of life when it's politically convenient for them, the moment that it's no longer convenient they stop giving a shit. This appeared true when numerous, respected epidemiologists published op-eds in US media supporting the protests, only days after condemning people for not social distancing on a beach or swimming pool. Yes, my question comes off as cynical, and yes, I'm fortunate that my life hasn't been dramatically altered from the pandemic (still gainfully employed and though I was ill for 2 weeks with Covid-like symptoms in late February, I've made a full recovery). I know about a dozen or so people who have officially tested positive and all have made full recoveries, including a great uncle who lives in a nursing home and is in poor health. But the numbers don't lie, cases are going up rapidly right now and the protests (and lifting of lockdows) seem to be why.
You know I don’t delve into this stuff. Never have. I only want to discuss football. That’s why I come here. To discuss that. That’s why I never get involved with this stuff. I have never said what I do, because I don’t want to mix worlds. I will say this much. I’m a a white civil servant on the south side. Walk one day in our shoes. Done it for over 25 years. Been in every housing project you can imagine. Robert Taylor Homes, Cabrini Green, Ida B Wells... all of them. Not to mention the west side... holy fuck. As a 20 year old white kid, having to deal with some of the toughest and most dangerous cats in the world. It made me grow up very quickly. Racism is not a one way street. I came into Cabrini one time and was cursed as a “white boy mother fucker” as I was attending to a resident and taking them out on a stretcher. I would love to have this “conversation” we are all talking about. But it has to go both ways.
Def possible given how drunk i was last night. And if i've got the wrong end of the stick then of course i take it back. Except....your position on this does seem to have altered a little.... When you first floated that idea of would the loss of life be worth the price of police reform etc, you did that in the form of a rhetorical question. Somewhat suggestive that you may think it is. A question since repeated. Then there is the fact you have questioned the scale of this crisis and the response/economic cost pretty much from the very start. It just all goes to suggest we have differing priorities when viewing this. Me i am first and foremost interested in the preservation of life. Economic costs in no way trump that, and indeed, somewhat ironically, by pursuing a maximum approach to preservation of life you also reduce economic cost further down the line. New Zealand, the US & UK all prove this point. New Zealand took no prisoners with this virus right from the very start, it went full lockdown no ifs no buts. That country is now in control of the situation and open for business again. One of the lowest death rates in the world and by the end of the year its own drop in GDP relative to previous years(a key metric for measuring covid economic impact imo because it takes account of differing population sizes) will be massively less than the drop in GDP relative to previous years that we will see in the US & UK. The excuse makers try to point out NZ's smaller size, and yes, it would've always been a harder task for the US & UK to achieve similar results. But it was always achievable and actually the difference isn't about size, its about leadership and political will. NZ and other successful countries have had that, the US & UK have not and are now paying a terrible price. Anyway, getting a little off topic i guess. I'm a little cynical in terms of the answer to that. Not the only reasons probably but i think two of the major drivers were the fact that there was a lockdown of sorts and also the fact that there was clear video footage of Floyds murder(im calling it murder). Not saying there wasn't outrage or that this applies to all people, and im also not a psychologist, but i do feel there was some kind of psychological lockdown-related aspect to the response to this, particularly among younger protesters. And i think that becomes more apparent when you look at the response outside the US actually. People protested this all over the world, even in countries where racial inequality is seen as a far far smaller problem than in the US. Very progressive, liberal types countries like Holland, Sweden, and yes Scotland. Im not saying the response was a bad thing, but the timing was extremely coincidental between an unprecedented lockdown and unprecedented global protests. Also Floyds death was right there on recording. The whole thing was in your face with very little room for any interpretation, and sadly i think it probably takes that to wake people the F up. They need it rammed down their throat. Just my opinion, but in many ways Breona Taylor's killing was more shocking to me. Surely one of our most basic rights as citizens is to feel safe in our own homes. To have police enter your house and kill you while you sleep is just dumbfounding to me. I know of the circumstances surrounding the boyfriend etc, it doesn't change anything for me. Why didn't the world erupt for that? Was it just cos people didn't have video where they could see it? A neighbour and good friend of mine got it in April. She's about 51 but extremely healthy and active. Health wise she seemed late 30s. She got it real bad, her lungs are fucked. Almost 3months later and she can barely leave the house, i just see her sitting on her front balcony some mornings with a big blanket around her even tho we've had really hot weather here. And statistically she falls into the recovered category..
Yep. This was/is my position. I care about the preservation of life and also the quality of life. Maybe it's more of a grander philosophical discussion but I'd personally rather die than be condemned to a lifetime of suffering and poverty that I could never get out of. I'm so fortunate that it's something I don't have to worry about. Putting millions of people out of work and destroying their livelihoods to the point where they may never recover is horrible. Not to mention that in this country (not yours or most of the civilized world) healthcare happens to be tied to employment for most of us. When you lay off 30 million people you take away the healthcare of 30 million people, putting them at even greater risk of death during the pandemic since they cannot afford and/or will be denied healthcare services by our fucked up system (sidenote: I'm 100% medicare for all). So a case could probably be made that more deaths, at least in the US, could have resulted from the lockdowns and subsequent job layoffs. I have called it a murder since day 1. The reasons for the protests you gave have validity given the timing. What I hate, and I've made clear a lot on this thread, is the hypocrisy and how so many suddenly switched from a position of shaming and condemning people out in public to unwavering support. To me, it discredited a lot of what people had been saying all along given how the experts couldn't be consistent in their positions, other than Dr. Fauci who has been consistent and who has admitted more often than not that there's a lot we still don't know.
Other than the time early on when Dr. Fauci said “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.” When first responders were running low on PPE and he was afraid these people that needed them the most wouldn't have them. Now many people including the president think this is an infringement of our basic liberties, and as if somehow the virus doesn't spread in the U.S. people are hanging on to the statement made by Dr. Fauci without giving it the proper context. The White House task force met yesterday and Pence mentioned social distancing and washing hands but didn't even recommend wearing a mask. To be fair when asked about it task force leader Pence said it should be up to the states to mandate that. Okay, but to recommend is one thing to mandate is quite another. So since Pence didn't mention masks because it's up to the states to mandate that, is he mandating social distancing and the washing hands because he mentioned it? Why not recommend wearing them? Now you have another right-leaning force these anti-maskers are promoting an ADA facemask exempt cards that actually don't exist. In all my years I never realized public health and safety was such a partisan issue. Gotta love Murica land of the free home of the brainless.
I was a Chicago public school teacher for a while and spent a majority of my time doing that on the south and west side of the city. 5 years in Englewood, 6 in Burnside, another 6 in Washington Park. So I totally know what you're saying. Racism does go both ways. Always has. But I don't think calling out police brutality, wealth inequality, and systematic injustice is ignoring that often times racism can come from the other side as well.
Racism goes both ways, but the victims of it are usually not white. Let's be real. And that inequity only perpetuates racism all the more.
We don't normally indulge in political discussion on the Bears forum but in lieu of yelling at each other over football I thought it might be interesting to get your thoughts, opinions and observations on what's happening across the United States during this sweeping call for reform. Tell me if you think this is going to affect some change or if you think that change is even needed. Kudos to Baby for starting this Thread on June 4th.......it has become a Education of Poster's thoughts. Well done my Friend.......\+/......Beer
Lots of good stuff in this thread on the statues, to me there are really two categories. 1. The statues erected in the south in the 50/60s *specifically* to intimidate blacks, that's hard to defend yet people have fought this as not erasing history. But that slippery slope was pretty fucking quick to: 2. Otherwise honorable people that aren't perfect. Ulysseys S Grant, the man who *won* the civil war and without him slavery might still fucking exist today. The fact that he was gifted a slave that he freed is an interesting fact, but if I were to see a statue of Grant, my first thought sure as hell isn't "oh yeah, this guy once owned slaves". Lincoln, not just the one in this thread, but there's one of him sitting at UW-Madison that they want to have come down too. At this point, the protests are making the argument that all statues should come down, because we can find fault in any man (MLK cheated on his wife, etc). But really, Ev nails it with it being an outlet for rage. Misdirected, IMO. Racists aren't made from a statue, they're learned from experiences and from family. The only problem is, I don't see how we get there. These protests have been clear for the most part in their message, police brutality and systemic racism. No one is looking at the bigger picture outside of you, me and a handful of people. Last election I voted 3rd party (and I know how the electoral college works, I'm not in anything resembling a swing state) - mostly because a 3rd party gets 5% of the vote and they'll get matching funds the next year. And no one even broke 1%! In the election we had with two of the least likable candidates ever. Too many people, a *vast* majority, believe their side is the right one, not the "lesser of two evils". With that in mind, we are nowhere *near* ranked voting. Many, many people won't even vote out the dickheads of Pelosi and McConnell, and they sure as hell easily could. I agree with your premise of class warfare, income inequality in this country is ridiculous. I think tuna mentioned the tax breaks and what a joke, they believed people making 40k a year would notice the extra $10 a check they got back, and then when tax time rolls around they get a smaller refund? Hoo boy. If it weren't for all this other shit, something like that would eject Trump at full speed come election time. Where I disagree, is that the revolution is coming. The closest you got was "CHAZ/CHOP" and they've let that go on and burn itself on its ideals. IF protests start to turn more violent maybe, but honestly they've been calming down the past week+, with attention focusing once again on the pandemic, which we almost certainly accelerated with protests.
You must consider this as well, If these athletes were sincere in their convictions of oppression (I'm saying they aren't) but why is it any different now with their sneaker deals as it was back when slavery was legal? Aren't these people oppressed that continue to make these sneakers in these sweatshops in Bum Fuck Egypt or wherever? Now fast forward 100 years how will all this be perceived? Will we be tearing down LeBron James statues (Does he even have a statue yet?) because of the people he's oppressed making his shoes even though it was a quite common thing to do?
This is a pretty amazing read. This is a letter by 12 yo, Lonnie Chavis. He plays young Randall in the show “This is Us.” He wrote this letter to his mother after watching the murder of George Floyd. My life matters, but does it? America paints a very clear picture of how I should view myself. America shows me that my Blackness is a threat, and I am treated as such. I actually didn’t learn about being Black and what that would mean for me until I was 7 years old. I thought I was a peach man, so my parents educated me on being a Black man really quick with long talks, books and movies like Amistad and Malcolm X. I was overwhelmed with confusion, fear and sadness. I had to lean on my faith in Christ for hope, protection and understanding. Being a young Black boy in Hollywood made it even more fearful. I can recall the time when I realized there are not a lot of people that look like me on these Hollywood sets and asked my mom where all the Black people were. I also remember being invited to events but then being treated very poorly by security or entrance checkers, like I wasn’t supposed to be there, until I had a publicist to announce me. I think of going to Hollywood events with other actors and actresses where I was constantly asked if I’m the boy from Black-ish or the boy from Stranger Things. I guess we all look alike since we are all Black. Can you imagine being confused for any other Black kid just because you all share the same profession? I can. I can recall a time on set when I started crying listening to an actor portray a racist grandmother toward my character. The director and writers told me that they didn’t need me to cry for the scene. However, it was hard for me not to cry as I witnessed what I had just learned was my reality. I wasn’t acting, I was crying for me. Can you imagine having to explain to a room full of white people why I couldn’t hold back my real tears while experiencing the pain of racism? I can. It didn’t stop there. I was racially profiled at a restaurant in San Diego while visiting one of my young Black costars. Her Black cousins and I were accused by a young white girl working the cash register of trying to steal the few tips in her tip cup. It was a huge ordeal that almost led to police being called on us while we were with our parents — until some wonderful fan who happened to be white told them that I was a professional actor on two television series currently airing and argued that he doubted I would need to steal her few dollars. My mother never played the “he’s an actor” card. She definitely knew and argued that we were being targeted merely because we were a group of young Black children. Can you imagine someone thinking you are a thief just because of the color of your skin? I can. At this point, I knew by experience that this nation will never take it easy on me, and that all Blackness could be perceived as a threat in America. My mother was taking me to work one morning, just blocks from the Paramount Studio lot, when she got pulled over in our new BMW. The white cop approached my mother’s window and asked her, “Whose car is this?” — not about her license and registration, or even why he pulled us over. I had been taught about how to behave if ever getting stopped by the police, but nothing prepared me for this. My mom was guilty of driving while Black. She had to go to her trunk for more paperwork, and I watched the cop hold his hand on his gun as if my mom was a threat. I was scared for her; I was scared for me. I didn’t know what to do in that backseat, but just to get on the phone with my dad. It became clear to me that the other three times we were pulled over in Hollywood/L.A. areas after that were because we were Black in a nice car. Can you imagine it being normal to start recording with your cellphone as soon as your mother is pulled over for a traffic stop? I can. My 10th birthday fell on Thanksgiving in 2018. After coming home late with my family from my birthday party, a Long Beach police officer twisted my dad’s arm behind his back and pulled him from our doorstep with the door opened, claiming he was being detained for a traffic ticket. My mother ran to my room and told me with fear in her eyes to go into my little brother’s room and stay away from the windows. She put my new baby brother in my arms and told me that no matter what I hear from our front yard to not come to the door — no matter what. I held my baby brother and cried as I could hear my mother yelling outside of our home. I thought my parents were for sure going to die going up against the police. By the grace of God, they are both still with me, and that racially motivated harassment against my father was dismissed. Can you imagine holding on to your three little brothers while thinking that you are all going to be orphans? I can. If you don’t understand what’s going on in the world, then understand this: This is what the world looks like for me. A 12-year-old Black boy. This is my America. Policies need to change, laws need to change, the police need to change, Hollywood needs to change, hearts need to change, America needs to change. Change has got to happen for unarmed Black citizens to not live in fear of being murdered. Can you imagine being me in 2020 and wondering what the future holds? I can’t.
Can you imagine being me in 2020 and wondering what the future holds? I can’t. WOW........that is a scary read Baby............and is that not what Martin Luther King had a Dream for . HAPPY CANADA DAY to you and Family..........enjoy the day ......but I'm sure it will be quiet with Covid and all.
It is quite a letter for a young man of that age to write. Happy Canada Day to you as well Larry!! I'm off to our farm to bbq some burgers and such for a very small group of people. We declined an invitation to a yearly thing we go to because there will be over 10 people there. Last year there were 100+ and even though they have cut the numbers drastically I'm still not interested.
You guys have a holiday to celebrate that time Britain made you a colony with semi-independence. Americans have a holiday to celebrate that time we beat Britain's ass and made ourselves a country. Just wanted to point that out.
