Howdy, y'all. Poles traded a sixth round pick for a $17 mil a year (2 more years, I believe) interior OL that couldn't stay healthy or crack the starting lineup for the Rams last year. Good times.
Should we just make an off-season thread? Legal tampering window opens this weekend for FA then FA period officially begins next Tuesday. Plenty for us to motherfuck Poles on. I'm not that pessimistic, though there's certainly cause for concern with the move. I'll start with the good: He's a Ben Johnson guy and was a pro-bowler for him in Detroit--which sounds weird to say for a former loins player. He's a run mauler, is decent in pass protection, and is among the better OGs in the league at identifying stunts, as opposed to the bears IOL last year which was at the bottom of the league when they weren't being turnstiles. And he's better than the past 3 OL Poles has traded for in Dan Feeney, Doug Kramer, and Ryan Bates. He's also an upgrade to Teven Jenkins, and while I'm splitting hairs here--he can stay on the field slightly longer than Teven can. The OG market, especially LG, really sucks in FA, so jumping on a 28 year old who went to a real college football school is a breath of fresh air after trying the Harvard or Yale kid who gets put on his ass every play. This guy has dozens of quality starts under his belt, which I can't say for Feeney, Kramer, and Bates. Now for the concerning. Just one year ago the Rams gave him a big chunk of change, albeit to play Center. He was mostly unspectacular at C in the 4 games before he got hurt. Furthermore, what does it say about a team who signs him for big money, then with limited money this offseason, gives Stafford a nice raise, gives another FA OL Alaric Jackson a big raise, they cuts bait on this guy? Even if I wore my bears-goggles, its hard to dress/doll this one up as a good thing. Another reason I'm concerned is the roster building aspect of the move, because Poles in previous offseasons has been predictable in how he spent in FA leading up to the draft then what holes he left open we had to interpret as being drafted. The bears need multiple OL starters, but now I'm starting to fear a move like this, and maybe another OL signing for starter money or a guy good enough for a 2nd contract--leaves the table open at 10 overall for another unnecessary boutique pick. I'm petrified Poles loves the RB from Boise State, or the hyper athlete "safety" from South Carolina, or a pass catching TE which is all bears fans seem to be beating the drum for in terms of "BPA." Last year it was Rome, and WR3 at 9 looks as stupid now as a year ago when it was being prognosticated. Now don't get me wrong, if this kid is the "Keenan Allen" to whatever OL he could theoretically take at 10, I'm in--but I don't think that's likely. I still hope OL is taken with at least one of the 3 top 40 picks. I think edge or DL is lining up to be the 10th pick. Lastly, Poles needs to win a trade for a change. Been a while since he's won one, and its the only one he can say he "won."
Well what’s better than trading for one gaurd? Trading for two! Joe Thuney step on up. At 32 he is an all pro caliber player for at least 3 or 4 more years. Plug and play. I would say we upgraded the interior O line if we can add a center and LT we might have something here.
He got Joe Thuney for a 4th next year? Cant believe I'm saying this, but good job Poles. I'm stunned he pulled it off. All pro, still several highly productive years ahead as opposed to Kevin Zeitler as the "vet OL/C," and he doesn't miss very many games. Postseason success, despite Vic Fangio's dissection of him and the entire KC OL last month. Don't stop with the OL. Also don't draft a RB at 10. And for clarification, its Pittsburgh's 6th for Jonah Jackson.
You just said Poles needed a win, and this one is good I think. A future 4th for an All Pro in the sunset of his career. It's funny you said it Pat, because when I heard about both of these moves, I thought to myself these are Keenan Allen type moves, short term solid moves with probable upside, and yes, I don't think it rules out the "Rome Odunze" pick of say Campbell if he falls, or a top DE/DT if they fall there, Nate Tice had some options there on the latest Hoge and Jahns that sounded intriguing, but as always, I don't watch college so I rely solely on "expert" opinions, which I hate myself for. Jackson they gave some good money ($17.5or something?), he is injury prone, and I don't see how he's much of an upgrade over Tevin Jenkins who is also injury prone. I don't love it, but he is definitely a Ben Johnson guy and will be able to implement whatever system he comes up with for this group, so I don't hate it either. It's fine, if he stays healthy, it's a good move, but I have no confidence in this staff when it comes to evaluating how healthy guys are. LOL, I just found this: Joe Thuney trade grades: Bears bolster O-line with All-Pro guard, Chiefs lose key blocker for Patrick Mahomes - so CBS gives it to Poles as a clear win, though I do agree with them that it's mostly for cap space to lock down the younger Smith. They clearly still need a solution at center, I am a fan of the Thuney pick up, even if it's shorter term.
We are a 5-12 team. We got problems guys. Deep problems on both sides of the ball. I’m a lot more concerned about our defense. There were times our defense couldn’t stop my son’s 2A high school team. We have one linebacker worth a fuck, and we are paying Edmunds a lot of money to get beat constantly. We have a starting cornerback that would rather chirp the crowd than win a game. Sweat is shit; we have no pass rush. My opinion is we need D tackles- interior pressure wrecks shit. We also need another safety. I’m actually way much more concerned about the defense than I am the offense.
Gotta be honest, the Jackson move does very little for me. Trading a day 3 pick for an OL the other team didn't want is standard Poles operating procedure. Hasn't worked yet. + he's carrying a cap hit of $17.5mil?? Way too high for me. Clearly the deal hinged on the Rams eating 0 money and they got their way with that. Johnson having worked with him plays a little bit, you like to think he was heavily involved in this. But honestly, if its a straight up choice i go with the known commodity and keep Jenkins. Thuney however is a slam dunk trade imo. Instantly becomes the best OL on the team, THAT'S upgrading. I know his age isnt great, but if its me im totally rolling the dice on this the way Poles has. If you get even 2years of pro bowl play out of Thuney at the most critical time of Caleb's development/career thats a big win. He'll prob get an extension, just make it sub 4years and try to get the guaranteed money out the way in 2. One thing i dont really get is you've just traded for 2 players who both play LG, not sure i see the logic in that. Sure you can move one(Jackson no doubt) but now you're asking someone to play not their pref position. These trades were so close together that you had to know about this possibility so i guess they don't care. Going forward signing Dalman in a couple of days would be excellent. You'll be overpaying, i don't care. Consider it the effect part of fucking around with the position for 3years needlessly. And none of this automatically gets me off going O-Line in the 1st round either. It does create some breathing room to consider a DL if someone falls unexpectedly and a Mason Graham would be hard to turn down. Not keen on drafting the RB at #10. But having traded for 2 G's it could mean they look for purer plays at LT now than Campbell & Banks Jr(not that i agree particularly with that logic). Pat if you could trade down into the mid/late teens and pick Simmons, would you? He might've been a top10 lock before that injury.
While Dalman is the best C on the market, age and talent-wise, and I want him--a particular pundit named Robert Mays breaks down how Atlanta used him and how Ben Johnson used his OL in Detroit, and Dalman's game doesn't translate. He's smaller, so he's best in Shanahan/McVay style that former McVay offensive coach now OC for Atlanta uses called (also incredibly popular and commonly run in College) 'agile' linemen, who don't block a guy straight up, rather its their job to get to a spot and block whoever's there. He pulled a lot for Bijan doing outside zone run in Atlanta where he could run over a smaller OLB or DB, but keep in mind he had 2 of the better OTs in the league and an all-pro OG Lindstrom alongside him. Ben Johnson had a straight up top 2-3 OL, and he just ran over people and overpowered them. I don't know what he's trying to make here yet. We don't have Detroit's OL, so is he trying to recreate that with the run game? Fixing the OGs is going to improve the line a lot, though I agree with Jackson. Johnson's also smart, so knowing he doesn't' have the OL he had in Detroit, does he use the talent around him, sign the best C in FA, and call plays that uses his strengths? In that case, Dalman makes sense. Absolutely will be nauseated if he takes Jeanty at 10. I hate the idea of getting a RB first. And I liked him in college, I just think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when it turns out he's closer to Deshaun Foster from Carolina years ago in comparison (and that's not an insult to Jeanty) than to a once-in-a-generation guy like Saquon Barkley or Adrian Peterson. And there's no justifying taking that at 10 in a stacked draft where you can probably find a good RB2 to Swift through rounds 3-5. You won't have anywhere near the same luck finding a starting DE there. I don't take Simmons in a trade down. I just don't have a good feeling about that knee, because it was all ligaments and the patella. I'd stay at 10 and if Campbell and Banks are off the board and I'm going OL I'm taking Armand Membou from Mizzou. Though I share Bearman's position just based on how FA is shaping and that Trey Hendrickson may not be a bear, they can get some decent upgrades on the DL, but you'd have to draft one with one of those top 40 picks, so the edge from Tennessee or Georgia I wouldn't complain with, the DT from Ole' Miss Walt Nolen (sounds like a bear player name), Ken Grant--Mason Graham's partner DT/fatman. How Wink Martindale used him at Michigan was brilliant, though as you said--if Mason Graham somehow falls, you run to the podium. For DEs, if you're going power, you go Mykell Williams round 1 or Shemar Stewart/Mike Green in a trade down/round 2. If you want speed, you James Pierce round 1 or Donovan Enzeraku/Princely Umanlian in a trade down or round 2. Don't trade up for Abdul Carter. DT is Walt Nolen/Ken Grant round 1 and Deone Walker round 2. If Mason Graham is somehow there, you tell the league to 'fuck off' if they try to make you wait before announcing the pick and I sprint my out-of-shape ass to the podium and announce it.
Interesting stuff pat, particularly about Dalman. Without looking anything up it felt like Gibbs ran behind a lot of outside zone concepts last season. If so, there should be at least a partial matchup to Johnson's running game scheme. Its hard to say much right now, personally im just gonna trust that Johnson has the skills to make it work. If nothing else, we can say that before getting into schemes etc fundamentally the talent level had to go up. There's is absolutely zero question that the talent level has gone up, both at C and G to G. I don't think its how any of us would've gone about roster building for the Bears. Johnson was probably available last year if the Bears had wanted it. We could, and should, have been looking at all of this in year 1 for Caleb rather than the rookie season from hell. Re Simmons, didn't he make comments during the combine of making at least a partial workout at his pro day? If thats true, and he does, i imagine that would put a lot of worries to rest about the knee when the season is still some 4 months away.
