That would be ideal, if the fucking Browns didn't restructure Watson's contract and remove the clause two weeks before the new allegations came to surface. My question is, did they know about them before they restructured? If they did, then I have no use for the organization moving forward. Call me in 2027 and see if I'm still breathing. If so, I might consider making a comeback.
Well Watson settled his rape lawsuit and there shouldn't be any more legal or disciplinary action. Browns now don't have to wait but we know they will. Management might be stuck in save my ass mode and don't think they can survive if they punt the season already in order to draft a new guy. That might be their replacement's job. They'd ride and die with Watson.
It's embarrassing. I keep seeing and hearing about new low markers and yet... I just can't care anymore, I don't have it in me.
With the product on the field, this is just a kick in the teeth using taxpayer dollars to fund this. Haslam can go phuque himself and he can pay for it himself. Do the taxpayers get a percentage of the profits when they shell out all that cash? No?…………Phuque you Haslam!!!!
I for one am happy with this decision... 1) addressing Duff... The tax dollars will be spent and the taxpayers will get it back in form of jobs, development and higher property values for the region. Anywhere a stadium is built, studies show the economic impact is very positive to the community, county and region. The region is still Cleveland, so don't lose too many tears for the city. I'll address this more below with VV.. 2) It is NOT a long ways away from downtown. The location is 15 miles south and without traffic about 15 minutes, with bad traffic it could push it to an hour, but that's true anywhere in the city Obviously you can drive, but you can also get to Brookpark via train, which with all stops only takes 60 minutes or less. There will not be enough hotels in the area for all fans, mind you there are not enough hotels in downtown Cleveland NOW for all the fans. Right now, unless you want to pay $400 / night for a hotel downtown, you will have to stay in a suburb that is a similar drive to Brookpark. The commute will not be much different than it is now. The biggest difference is for someone like me, who only lives an hour from the stadium whether it is Cleveland or Brookpark is.. I like to stay downtown for the night and do some extracurricular activities. We make it a weekend and experience the Cleveland scene when we go to a game. So, now, we might still be able to do that without spending $400 / night for the hotel... OR... we also have the option of spending that money and staying in the hustle and bustle of all the new activities that will be going on in Brookpark. More options, imho. The other negative talk I have been hearing is that downtown Cleveland will die without the Browns being down there... Bullshit... The city is so much more than the Browns. The Browns bring fans 8-9 weekends a year, in the middle of Ohio winters. The theater district rivals off Broadway in New York. It is one of the largest non-production destinations for plays and musicals in the USA. The Guardians are bringing so many more visitors each year than the Browns simply because they are in town for 62 games a year when the weather is nice. The Cavs are home for 40 games and will help with the Browns gap during those winter months. they are also breaking ground on a state of the art soccer stadium in a few months that will initially host a professional women's soccer team and most likely a men's team will follow. Parking was a major factor. There was such a shortage that if you wanted to pay under $70 for parking, you had to park 6-10 blocks away, still pay $45+ for parking, then get an Uber to take you the rest of the way. Fact is, this is just more negative press for a situation that will bring more life and business to the Cleveland area year round. This facility will be able to host a number of things year round like concerts, large venue prize fighting/wrestling, like MMA/WWE events in the cold months. Even a Super Bowl... the entire project is built as if they were going to host the Olympics and could easily handle a Super bowl week full of indoor and outdoor activities, even if there is a blizzard in town, as it is literally 3 miles from Cleveland Hopkins Airport. As down as I am on the fucking Watson situation, this is a positive piece of news to an otherwise gloomy NFL existence in Cleveland.
I’m not against the project. I just have had enough of decades of teams being moved for better deals elsewhere. Cities are held ransom while billionaire owners dangle a piece of a city’s sense of pride and identity over their heads. A few jobs and some income from tourists occasionally does not offset what is being coughed up by the taxpayer. The estimates at this time are around $2.4B and Haslam wants half from the city, county and state in tax money. Phuque that!!!! How about 50% of the profits if we’re putting in half. Hell, make it 60% cause he’s bringing the team. He won’t take this offer. The rich continue to socialize the costs and privatize the profits. The NFL and owners make billions every year. They have more than enough money to build a new stadium for a team. Hell , they could build a new one every year one team at a time and everyone would have a new stadium every 32 years. They can stuff their sales pitch of “it’ll bring jobs and income” because it brings them a shit-ton more money to their pockets and they only need to pay for half……and I bet somehow they get to claim their part as a business expense and get to write it off. And the taxpayers have 20 years of a sin tax or increased sales tax which in 20 years will be renewed or increased when they need improvements or another brand new stadium. Phuquing let them pay for it themselves…. (sorry for the rant)
Just read this post from elsewhere that adds a bit more to my points Clevelander: if you’re not angry today, you should be Please don’t be one of the people who ooh and ahh at the shiny pictures of the new stadium. Make no mistake: you are being robbed. I’m not sure where to even start, but here we go: - Cleveland paid $247 million for the initial building of the stadium (that couldn’t last even 30 years), millions in renovations, millions in repairs over the years, and millions in utilities. To fund this, they sold bonds. The city of Cleveland is currently saddled with tens of millions in paying back bonds that they will no longer have any tax revenue to pay for. The Browns are leaving them hanging to dry simply because they didn’t have $600 million to give them for a stadium rebuild. - You are about to pay $1.2 billion to help pay for the second most expensive stadium ever built. Note that the first most expensive (LA’s SoFi Stadium) was built without a nickel of tax payer money. So the third highest GDP city in the world didn’t contribute anything while the second poorest major city in the US is going to pay $600 million and the state of Ohio (with less than one quarter of the GDP of California’s) will pay another $600 million. We are suckers. Plain and simple. - This would be a bad deal if this was the 2000-2019 New England Patriots. But the Browns may very well be the worst run organization in professional sports. You are going to fund an unprecedented amount of tax payer dollars to fund a team that has an average of 5 wins per season since 1999, currently has a 1-4 record, is the laughing stock of the NFL, and is saddled with a guaranteed contract that will keep them in the cellar for at least 3 more seasons. - The economic benefits you say though? Please. In a world where people are divided on everything, economists around the world are united in their stance that stadiums do not provide any economic benefit and that more evidence suggests it actually harms the regional economy by taking money from fans pockets and into billionaire owners and millionaire players pockets, who typically spend their off seasons out of the region and retire outside the area too, forever taking the regions money out. - You’d better believe the Cincinnati Bengals are all ears today. They will now be demanding at least this same amount of public dollars to fund a new stadium for the Bengals. Mark my words, you will be funding two of these stadiums.
We can probably go at this all day if we needed to, but there is definitely two sides to every scenario... The lease was for 30 years and the Browns are going to pay that lease to the end, which meant the City should have planned for a 30 year return on investment. Haslem, the Browns organization or no other entity is leaving anyone high and dry. They mismanaged the deal and it's on those in charge of managing that deal, no one else. Los Angeles has two teams that cover the cost of that stadium... Rams owner financed it and Chargers ownership is leasing their end, similar to what the Browns have done in the past. If you don't want any money from the citizens, talk the Bengals into moving to Cleveland to share the expense.... As for comparing situations, Los Angeles has never been able to sustain a team in that market, no matter what the size is... THAT was a terrible investment by Kroenke, imho, but we all have our own opinions on things. On the other hand, the Browns are so popular and bring so much to the table, the fan base, city, county and state fought the most powerful pro sports entity and won to keep the team local. The (3) uears without the team in Cleveland proved the economic impact they had not being in the area. Moving the location where they play 15 miles south will not effect the county or state in any way shape or form. The City of Cleveland specifically will still benefit from the spectators visiting the area without the burden of participating in the cost of the project. Finally, the contract of Watson will have absolutely zero bearing on the success of a team that won't begin play in Brookpark until at least 2028. His contract runs out after the 2026 season and they will have significant time to put a better product on the field prior to opening day. Regardless, when it comes to support, even losing for decades, this fanbase continues to support the franchise... This is a moot point. Only the state portion would be subject to matching, as well as the study of impact on the state if the team(s) were to dissolve. But, to your point brings me back to my point above, move the Bengals to Brookpark and the community wouldn't need to participate in either stadium. That's what St Louis and San Diego gave up for two teams to enter the Los Angeles market. Tell that to a city with (3) sports teams... This city is built on the Browns, the fact that it's a sports town fuels the fire for the Guardians and Cavs. If the Cavs left, the sports nucleus stays united. The NBA fan that rooted for the Cavs would be pissed, but the Browns and Guardians really wouldn't be affected all that much. If the Guardians shut the doors, there would be a bigger impact as a sports town for Cleveland, but again, it would still be a sports town as long as the Browns are still there (including moving where the games are played to Brookpark). If the Browns actually shut their doors and moved to say, Tennessee, this town would not survive as a sports town with just the Guardians and Cavs. It might take 10 years, but both of the other franchises would follow suit and eventually Cleveland would become just another town without professional sports. This town is more than sports, but you can't convince me otherwise that it isn't held together as a sports town. We have 4 major cities in Ohio, Columbus (the state capital), Cincinnati (home to the Bengals and Reds), Cleveland (home to the Browns, Guardians and Cavaliers), Toledo... Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland rank among the top 30 economies in the country by way of GDP, Toledo isn't in the top 80 and is actually behind two cities that are nearly half their size in Akron and Dayton. I'm not saying it is all sports related, but Cleveland and Cincinnati are sports towns, they have economic advantages in the hospitality sector that cities like Toledo can't contend with. Toledo has a casino, Cleveland has a casino... Make a visit to each of them and you will understand what I mean on the hospitality level of each city. The city would be GREATLY impacted without these sports teams in the area/state. You will never convince me otherwise. Also, in this argument, the City would benefit in the long run by not having to participate in the cost of the stadium, so it's a win win... They will still benefit from the home weekends, the benefit will outweigh the cost. They will still be the Cleveland Browns, not the Brookpark Browns, so they still get the free publicity and notoriety of having a professional football team. Finally, again, this amount of money being put out there is NOT for a football stadium, it is for an economic development project that includes a football stadium. It also includes hotels, shopping, event spaces, many other avenues of revenue that a single source stadium doesn't provide. Revenue stream is key here... One thing the City limits couldn't provide, a space that would accommodate a dome stadium and other economic revenue sources.. yet they were still willing to invest in the single source revenue stream that they have had for over 90 years... Hell the economic impact is so great to the city that a one stadium for two teams was scrapped for a two stadium for two teams plan in the 90's... Now, convince me it isn't worth the investment.
Thanks for the conversation @IrishDawg42. I appreciate a good debate. Don't have the time right now to address your points (I'll get back to you cause I'm enjoying this). I have however linked an article on the economics of stadium building for cities. There are lots but I just don't have time to deep dive to counter your points yet. https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2022/01/15/cities-should-not-pay-for-new-stadiums/ There are a few more articles referenced at the end of this one. All good reads (I scanned a few paragraphs here and there in each). My biggest takeaways are that it doesn't bring in tourist revenue, the long term benefits are low to non-existent as the money would be much better used in infrastructure, education, civic works. etc.and that the jobs created are of the lower, hourly wage paying variety and not truly career type opportunities. In my mind this is a handout where there is limited return to the taxpayers.......and in 20 years or so, this one will be obsolete and then the rich owner will come knocking on the door for a shit-ton more or maybe he'll just move the team and the cycle will continue.
This is one small piece of the picture that shows the Brookpark deal is a much better overall deal. The current Browns stadium fits this ideal to a T. It is a one function structure, that save a few summer concerts, is useless during the winter months. Otherwise, it’s just a really big bowl with seats in it. Very little usefulness for tourism or expanded jobs besides those that are provided during build and on NFL Sundays. The Brookpark project provides an opportunity for weekly entertainment year round, as well as surrounding employment and social opportunities for locals and tourists alike. Like is said above, this isn’t just a stadium project, that $2.4B includes infrastructure and year round opportunities that will help that community grow. One last thing on the 20 year cycle… what is the biggest reason stadiums need replaced after 20-30 years? Weather, which we all know north central Ohio is brutal. That isn’t the case with Domes. There’s a reason open air stadiums start falling apart from the inside out and buildings last 100s of years, a roof to protect your investment. It’s pretty easy to point to the perfect example, the Superdome, which was built in 1975 and is still in use today. Over a 50 year cycle, it has only had 2 renovations, the most recent in 2023 at $293M. To put that into perspective, in 25 years, Browns stadium has had a renovation in 2013 that cost $120M and had an expectancy of 15 years until another was needed. Now the renovation estimates are over $1B to fix infrastructure and upgrades to modernize. over 3 times the cost of the dome renovation just 1 year ago on a property that is twice as old. At the end of the day, the Brookpark project is just a much smarter project for growth and economically into the future. Give me more, I love a good debate!!
So, if I'm trying to read minds.... Haslam decided the conversation on whether or not to bench Watson for Winston is over.
Drooped him (Winston) to QB3 for no reason that makes no sense. This stinks to high hell as my dad would say.
