Well said. Pat is right that the media/social media news cycles feed into outrage and impatience and I fall into that trap myself countless times. Where Pat is wrong is that it doesn't mean we're (and I know he doesn't mean us here but the fanbase at large) stupid or blind to the faults of this team (although Bears subreddit would probably convince you otherwise). Bears fans can and will point out obvious bad front office moves or in-game decisions. Everyone is tired of it. Enough is enough. This fucking team can't get even the most basic shit right such as prioritizing the trenches, especially o-line, they don't even make an effort most years. They turn down excellent HC candidates to choose ball-less "high character" yes-man because something something that's the Bears way. They hire GMs who don't understand the value of draft capital and who think they're the smartest guys in the room by drafting D3 tight ends in the second round after a trade up. As for Fields/Mitch/Cutler, well Cutler we were patient with for years but I gave up on him towards the end of 2013, at the end of his 5th year with us. I knew in Mitch's year 3 he would never be the guy and for Fields it struck me last year. I'd like to chalk that up to just seeing enough bad QB play and bad fundamentals i.e. not seeing wide open WRs all over the place and taking sacks, to know when the guy is not the guy. If we saw tangible year on year improvement from any one of the Bears QBs since the Cutler era I'd be the first one to speak up and celebrate it. But we haven't and most of us aren't seduced by Fields spectacular rushes last year to not see what is painfully obvious to anyone with an average IQ, he's not a good QB. Additionally, we've never had a QB throw for 4000 yards or throw 30 TDs, the only franchise in the league and we're the oldest franchise in the league! It's completely justified to be outraged by this inability to, even for one brief era, get the QB position right. So that may come off as impatience, but it's just a collective frustration from a fanbase that actually has been patient over the decades and is now getting fed up because there's no end to the ineptitude in sight.
Lot of good thoughts these last several posts gents. I'd planned to chip in but time has gotten the better of me and now im off to China with work for 10days. Unlikely i'll catch the fuckface Lions game, tho given the state of things thats probably a good thing.
Big money on the bench, and the team is better for it. Great job, everyone. It only took most of the season.
It is amazing really, that we could out Lions the Lions themselves. That game was basically, "Hey Bears, YOU are the Lions now". To give up that lead, the way they did, is something only the Lions could do. We even have our own Matt Patricia leading the way! Every week with these coaches, we get examples of "this is a fire-able offense" and they are here week after week because the McCaskey's "don't do business that way". The best we can hope for as fans is that they don't try and run it back ala Nagy/Pace for another lame duck year.
This is not Nagy Pace. Hell this isn’t even Trestman Emery. This is a hole new level of ineptness. When you see a team that is getting better from a talent perspective but is being held back by the coaching staff you have to make a move.
I’m not quite sure I buy the rumors of Warren resetting HC and Gm. I think Flus is toast. Add Getsy and the rest of this sad sack of shit staff. Won’t miss any of them. They belong in division 3 college. Or high school. Even a vaunted, old, historic franchise like the Steelers can cut bait with ass coaches and fire them for non HR offenses, but not this shitbag organization. I think Justin is QB1 next year and his 5th year option gets picked up. If he plays as good as he did his past 4 starts in half of the 6 remaining games they'd be insane not to. I think Poles is safe. He has to be. We know the bad, but fired after 2 years? On one hand that’s awful precedent. He picked Flus after Georgie gave him the 3 finalists, so as much as I want to grill him, at the time, between Dan Quinn (who nobody wanted after he sucked ass in Atlanta) and Jim Caldwell (67 and everybody interviews him but nobody wanted him), at the time--I agreed with the move for fresh blood/a 1st time HC. Obviously since der Flus is comically bad--I can play the revisionist history card. He also fleeced Carolina for Bryce Young, and they look even dumber picking Young over Stroud right now. He got Montez Sweat, which for a 2nd rounder and the extension, albeit fat--was a good move. How he's played the PR game with Jaylon being a brat has been respectable. He let Jaylon test the trade waters to find out that he's not a top, gamebreaking CB the way Jalen Ramsey/Surtain/Horn/Jaire Alexander are. That, and your 'ace' AGM Cunningham, who is still a top pick for GM candidates upcoming would probably be gone too, unless you promote from within, which...I don't see happening. Can fully admit I'm wrong, but fire Poles, and Cunningham, who has already turned down a GM job would be gone as would 2 3rd round picks. Then again, on the other hand--Velus Jones, Chase Claypool, the botched Ogunjobi deal then doing nothing at 3 tech for an outdated 4-3 cover who scheme coach you hired, and 'trenches last' approach to roster building has gone about as well as expected. GMs who've taken the same approach, pick in the top 5 frequently, they don't stay GMs for very long. I'm also for trading away #1 again should the bears get the pick, by their own or Carolina's. Yes, I'm fine losing out on Marvin Harrison Jr, whom my opinion has changed on (yes he's the best WR in the draft, no--he's not generational even though I believed him to be previously, but this would require a novel of an examination/explanation on who Jr. is as a player and what you're actually getting as opposed to who his dad was and the natural assumption that Jr. is his dad, but better--which is a wild misconception/long story short, nepotism will make a 7-15 overall pick WR talent a top 3). Yes, I'm fine with one top 5-6-7 pick that can get one of the 2 best OTs in the draft and another 1st, preferably after the trade down going to edge, or even interior OL (there are 2 outstanding G/C in Van Pran from Georgia, and Bebee from Kansas State). Let's see how they fuck things up against the Vikes' on Monday.
I agree, and I think the only reason we're hearing rumors of Warren firing Poles is *because* of his ringing endorsement of Flus. Eberflus might be the worst Bears HC ever, and that's fucking saying something. I don't think he is, but you could make the argument and I'd be hard pressed to push against it too much. Yeah, it's early, but it's pretty clear he's just not cut out for it. It would be different if this team were performing above it's talent level, but it's doing quite the opposite. This roster isn't world beaters, but they are not making the most of what they have, even close. I think this is pretty bold. We have only really returned to last year, he's running wild and throwing a lot less (Denver being an exception, and they gave up 70 to Miami the previous week and were still fairly injured). Obviously we have the rest of the season but I still need to see a lot more from him than to think he's penned in as starter next year. To be fair to him, the early part of this year reminds me of that year when they tried to have Cam Newton sit in the pocket and he looked terrible, and he was much better when they moved back to moving the pocket, etc, and allowed him to grow that way. Maybe the same will happen here, I have little to no faith in the coaching staff to unlock it. I'm not giving Poles a pass on the Eberflus hire at all. If it were really that he wasn't onboard with the hire, you'd see a lot less of the overflowing support he has shown publicly. It would be lukewarm or normal bs, like with Pace and Fox. I agree with you that he's safe, because it takes longer to evaluate the GM, but those bad moves are piling up and outweighing the good. The only way he goes is if behind the scenes he has hitched his wagon to Eberflus, because if so that shows some pretty terrible judgement anyway. I will add to your list of positive for Poles that he has been getting *something* for players we would let walk in the past. The Mack trade, unloading Claypool (though good grief did he take a bath on *getting* Claypool). I also think Poles has been lukewarm on support for Justin, so it would not surprise me to get some hotshot QB whisperer and Maye or Williams and *trade* out Justin. That would fit with his MO and moves to this point, unless Justin actually balls out the rest of the way and the deck is stacked against him to do so.
I think when you consider alternatives, its not such a bad thing/shouldn't be a brain struggle to keep Justin. You're left with two choices, draft or buy someone as an alternative and when you look at where the roster is now, its better than dead last a year ago, but by how much? Will coaching, more talent, or both make the team immediately better? The latter is immediately a bad idea, because whether its Kirk Cousins, Jameis Winston, or Ryan Tannehill you want (the top 3 FA names), you're going to be paying out the ass/30 mil for Winston, and 40+ for Cousins/Tannehill. Fields (per OTC) is 6 mil cap hit next year (year 4), and by OTC's estimation for 5th year options from his draft class--the estimation is 20-23 mil per year. Also consider that we know what Cousins is/isn't. He won't live in the present pocket the bears give their Qbs, and at 36 coming off an achilles tear is he about to show us long lost athleticism? I doubt it. Tannehill is also going to be 36 with injury problems of his own on top of the inability to win when it matters with a good squad around him. Then we examine the draft prospects, albeit briefly and based on where we are in the NCAA season winding down and pre-draft hype season starting. Caleb Williams is falling hard right now. I didn't think much of crying with his mom in the stands the way some prognosticators had a field day with that photo, but as Blang pointed out somewhere, he's just trying to hard to go into hero mode, which is when he starts missing passes/open guys and turning the ball over, and then he runs to the lockerroom after losing/getting spanked like USC did against UCLA and Notre Dame and refused to talk to the media. That mentality will get eaten alive in a big market. And that doesn't include my earlier watching Williams and identifying his game is very similar to Justin's, except he's shorter and lighter than Justin. Drake Maye has had some bad/forgettable games down the final stretch of the NCAA season, including losses to Clemson and UVA where he struggled to complete 50% of his passes and got turnover happy. He's still a slow processor with footwork issues and he tends to climb the pocket/side step in the name of 'avoiding pressure' when he doesn't need to, and he tends to get hit/sacked a bit as he steps into pressure, more than any other QB being considered for draft. Right now, LSU QB Jayden Daniels should be flying up everybody's charts. He'll sneak into the 1st round and it wont shock me when he's next Spring's Anthony Richardson. RIght now, yeah--he'll be drafted, but after the combine people may start calling him a top 10 pick.
Poles needs to have the right answers if he is to stay. I am not sold on him having to go but he wasn’t hired by the president so the President should meet with him after Flus is fired and if he doesn’t have the answers I’m looking for then clean slate time. Now maybe they have already had those conversations and the path is set. One more thing. Harrison JR is the real deal. Just like Jalen Carter last year. So if the plan is to keep Fields you add HJR. There isn’t a bona fide top 5 defensive player your passing on.
Great overall post varder, and in particular this bit. Anyone trying to give Poles a pass over Eberflush can F right off. If a GM is so weak that as part of the hiring he allows ownership to choose his HC then he assumes equal responsibility for the horrific hire. And this was nothing but a horrific hire. I don't actually consider Flush the worst HC in team history, they are somehow continuing to play for him. The worst was Trestman (that team was legit going winless in 2015 if he'd been retained), but thats splitting hairs. Either Poles made a terrible hire or he has no backbone and just goes along with terrible hires. Either reason means he shouldn't get another crack at it. Not that i see Poles getting fired whatever happens the rest of this season. The old rule of ownership avoiding eating 2years of contract unless absolutely unavoidable will kick in. Flush must surely be gone tho i cant say that for certain due to prior rule. But personally i am over Poles.
It's a stark contrast, night and day between competence and the staff. You look at the fucking Loins after their thanksgiving ass kicking at the hands of the packers. Dan Campbell when asked about a fake punt that fooled nobody took responsibility and said it was a bad call and he put his guys in a position to fail. Der Flus and Getsy are blaming players, from Justin picking the wrong guy when Scott stopped running his route and had he run through he probably has a broken coverage big TD. Eberflus can't answer simple questions, then answered a question with: “it was good calling by the, by the, whoever the defensive coordinator was. And that was, that would be me” after the bears blew a 2 score lead to Detroit. There are two bona fide OTs not worth passing on for a nostalgic name you love. Fashanu and/or Alt are names to be considered picking top 3/5, and as it stands, the bears are the 31st OL in the league. Jr =/= Sr. Know what you're getting before you draft him. Without bringing up his dad, what about Jr. is generational? Harrison Jr. is 6'4, plays like he's 4.5 speed, even though the hype train calls him 4.3 speed. He goes down on first contact 46% of the time (and to already be that guy, when I think about how the last generational WR he's comparable to, Megatron, fared after 1st contact--minus that one Lance Briggs hit--we all know the one--I can't recall a time that dude went down so easily), and has questions about separation at the next level, particularly with multiple scouting reports talking about how slow his plant/pivot step is; that works against the Indiana/Northwestern/Nebraska DBs of the world who aren't making it at the next level, but the league is much faster and corners at the next level will already know when to get physical with him to throw his timing off when he's trying to go from vertical to horizontal or vice versa for the route his OC wants him to run. And as I mentioned earlier in this/another thread, when the chips are down and OSU is looking to move the sticks, the QB McCord isn't looking for this dude, he's looking for his teammate Egbuka or the TE Stover. Furthermore, this draft once again will be top heavy and deep at WR, so if replacing Mooney is the goal, there will be a ton of options early beyond Harrison. Washington has Odunze and MacMillian, Oregon St. has Silas Turner, Ohio State has Egbuka, Michigan has Roman Wilson and Cornelius Johnson, Keon Coleman and Johnny Wilson from Florida State, Malik Nabors from LSU, Texas has Adonai Mitchell and Xavier Worthy. Oregon has Troy Franklin. All of these guys are considered top 1-2 rounders. Also--the bears still have DJ Moore, so WR need shouldn't be that high, theoretically. If his name wasn't 'Marvin Harrison Jr.' he'd be compared to Mike Williams from Clemson (who the Chargers took #7 overall a couple years ago). He'd be a jump ball/50/50 guy, and that's not to say there isn't room on the roster for that, nor am I saying that an athletic talent like that wouldn't be useful. Mike Williams went as high as he did for a reason, because he was the best WR that draft. Marvin Harrison Jr. is the best in the draft. But generational? I can't say yes to that. Is he closer to Megatron or Mike Williams--to me, its the latter. That doesn't mean he can't/wont have a good career/few seasons. But then again, one of Howie Long's kids, Chris Long went #2 overall, when career-wise he wasn't a better DE than Cliff Avril or Calais Campbell from the 2008 draft. So I could 100% be wrong. Jr is a hell of a college player, but taking him top 3 is an overdraft and you're doing that for a premium name based on his dad, who will have NOTHING to do with his career. I just hope its not the bears using a top 3 pick on him.
You shouldn't be taking a WR with a top 3 pick, end of story. Even Calvin Johnson didn't win a Superbowl. I watched Thursday and Friday's football games this week, and watched offenses completely derailed by bad offensive lines. Those teams lost their games, unsurprisingly. Meanwhile, Dak airmailed several meaningful passes but their offense still scored a ton, because the offensive line made sure he had all day and plenty of chances to try again. Until the Bears have a top OL (and DL), I don't want to hear about drafting WR with a premium pick. No WR will matter without an OL to give the QB time, and a QB that can get him the ball. Just ask the Jets and Garrett Wilson, right now.
Pat I was talking about Poles not Flus. If Flus isn’t fired revolution!!!!! And you can take the best offensive weapon in the draft when you have 2 top 5 picks.
I don't watch CFB, so I rely on you, others on this sub, and "experts" for analysis there. I agree completely if the choice is FA or Justin, you stick with Justin. But at some point, you have to keep swinging at QB if Fields isn't the guy. Our coaching is so terrible it's been hard to evaluate, but as BWW/Ev and others called out in the game thread, Justin hits that one big play like the one to win the game so infrequently, and he did it in that game after coughing up the ball TWICE consecutively. If the Vikings weren't dead set on losing that game and actually played to win, they easily could have, despite the stellar performance by the defense. Justin's "big day" yesterday was a whopping 217 yards, 0 TD/0 Int/2 Fumbles. Outside of his legs, and a big throw here and there the progress still isn't there. To be completely fair Getsy has hamstrung not only his development, but his evaluation as well. He (Getsy) is beyond terrible. If Maye/Williams are not looking as good, that also means potentially a bad return on a trade down. But look at Stroud and he had so many questions leading up to the draft, yet he has clearly come out and delivered, future bumps in the road not withstanding. And you'd be right to point out Young and how bad he has looked, and those are last years 1/2. The good news is we have 5 more games to try and evaluate Justin, and the rest of the CFB season + the underwear olympics before we get to see what will happen. It would not surprise me in the least if Poles is retained to swing for the fences with a new QB as a job saving move, as no matter what his seat will be warming up. It wouldn't surprise me though to see him trade down too regardless. A new regime comes in and it's a new drafted QB all day. Your point on two bona fide OTs intrigues me. I assume both of them should be available by the time the Bears have a pick, not having to use the Panthers pick? I like Wright, so if we had an LT to match on the other side, and grab a C, the line would not be looking bad at all.
Yes, you could, If the offensive line was solid, but I'm not seeing that with this team. Hell, we still need a bonafide 3 tech as well. Harrison would be a splash pick and a nice addition but I do not see him as a generational talent as some people profess. It just seems to me the word "generational" is thrown around far too often. I don't need to see any more of Fields to know that besides his game being inconsistent he just doesn't take care of the football, and that isn't likely to change. 35 games in and 35 fumbles IMO says it all. Draft a QB and let Fields play out the last year of his deal while the new QB develops hopefully under a new coaching staff. If somehow Fields has an epiphany at the QB position then...Let's be real now this is the Bears we're talking about.
Not necessarily. You just need a team to fall in love with one. New England, Vegas, Atlanta, Tampa, and the NYG are all going to be looking for QBs. Add Minnesota should they not retain Kirk Cousins. Add the Jets if Erin retires. So I think the 'evaluation' part is over and at this point its reality. We know what Justin is. He's great in games until he's not, he hits the big throw, albeit inconsistently--he has a tendency to fumble a lot, and makes plays with his legs, he frustratingly holds the ball too long sometimes, and doesn't always see the wide open guy. His cheap salary next year and his 5th year option I'd just ride it out on while drafting a guy. If Justin plays good enough vs the rookie's potential that's not a bad problem to have. True, but look at the positions Carolina put Young in and Houston put Stroud in. Houston has the 12th best OL in the league right now (per PFN) including a top 3 LT in the game in Laremy Tunsil and doing it with a back up C who can get the ball to the QB, have one of the best rookie WRs in Tank Dell, an OC in Slowik who I am absolutely rolling out the red carpet for when Flus gets fired and its time to interview HC candidates. Then you look at Carolina. 25th ranked OL, no top 3 pick next year, one player on defense, and the one explosive playmaker they had they traded, and bought a 33 year old Adam Theilen on one leg to help Young, and they fired their 'offensive guru' coach before he could finish one season. But hey, the bears went up a spot from 31 to 30. Better draft that WR! Best Offensive Lines in the NFL 2023: Lions Slide After Disappointing Few Weeks
Yeah, just to be clear - the discrepancy between Young and Stroud in their rookie years is EXACTLY why the Bears need to get their shit together. One of these guys isn't monumentally better than the other. I still believe that Young is going to have a very good career if Carolina doesn't "Chicago" him. But Young is literally the only guy on that offense that should be on an NFL roster. I'd maybe argue for a guy like Chuba Hubbard as a backup RB, but that's not saying much. I'm surprised Young isn't dead yet, in that offense. It should really dispel any notion that he's "too small", his "health is a question", etc., especially when the QB with the Colts is out injured and was touted as being the perfect physical specimen for the position. There are enough cautionary tales league-wide right now. Fix your OL, get an OC that gels with your QB and takes his protection seriously, and you're going to have a good time. The Bears have none of that right now.
The Bears have none of that right now. dline the good news for you as a Sport Fan is your Florida Panthers are playing great and closing in on the Bruins for 1st place.
