Or another, possibly worse option, he gets similar treatment to Devin Hester and they convert him to a position he’s never played just because of his speed/shiftiness.
After having done as much research as my non professional life can I have come to the opinion that Poles needs to come out of this draft with an elite talent at either OT or DLine. D line can be end or tackle but o line must be a tackle. So. The way things are looking when mocking the shit out of this thing and reading every so called experts mocks is that if Carter drops you take him if you have the balls. He might be a bust, he might be the next Warren Sap. That’s for Poles to figure out. I’m good if he is the pick. If Carter does not fall or Poles doesn’t have the balls to take him you move to Tackle. Seems there are 4 guys with a possible all pro tag in their future. If they are all there when the Bears are on the clock take your favorite or trade down a bit and grab one as well as some more draft picks. All good by me as long as the right one is picked. Poles needs to show us he can pick a winner period.
I read an article recently that said the Bears are already looking to possibly trade down again. David Kaplan I believe though so huge grain of salt. I think if someone comes calling, cool, if not don't give it away for nothing. The farther back you move, the less you have to choose from. Trust the process, I guess. I also read that they would Carter if he were there, but that to me is either a "how the hell would you know" or some smoke and mirrors bs. Given how everyone has seemingly forgotten about his stupidity already, I could see him not even making it to us as all the scouts, etc, rave about his talent.
I think he’s overinflated based on how he’s the best prospect in a significantly weak DT draft class. When teams (including the bears) are spending top—30 visits on guys like Lucas Van Ness and Adetomiwa Adebawore, two collegiate DEs—with the idea of kicking them inside to DT, this isn’t the year if you’re looking for DT top talent. DT is a prime position right now. That’s why 30+ year old guys like Hargrave from Philly are getting deals till 35 at 20+ mil a year with San Francisco. That’s why Tennessee extends a guy like Jeffrey Simmons with a year left on his deal for 94 million after a solid last year and a half after being nonexistent his first 2 and a half years. Carter is in the right place at the right time. But the more I watch him the more I see Tank Johnson, not Warren Sapp or the other countless comps to good DTs out there that change daily by the pundit. He’s too hot and cold. Sure, when he’s hot you love it, but when he’s not, like more or less his entire 2022 season—he’s blocked like most DL wearing a bears uniform last year with a lot of plays where you’re left wondering if the dude even cares. And off the field, he’s not particularly bright. Too high maintenance and too big a risk. He’s perfect for the Raiders though.
I will agree with the lack of production and the fact that he was in a rotation and didn’t play the snaps you would like to see out of a top flight talent. I will agree that his off field issues are prevalent and his work outs have been not good to say the least. He is a big risk BUT one word nobody on this planet will use to describe him is blockable because he simply wasn’t. Not when he didn’t want to be anyway. If I am Poles I don’t touch him but I can see why he would. And if he does I will root for the kid with my whole being and trash the fuck out of Poles if he fails because of the availability of plug tackles that will be there when the Bears pick. Picks 53,61 and 64 are going to be just as important for Poles. There will be a top center prospect available there. He needs to grab one.
I think all of the above thoughts on Carter and this DL class are valid, and I agree that finding a 3tech in this class feels like a pretty big task. We all know that the 3tech is key to this defense (and one of the reasons I'm against this defense - any scheme predicated on finding a special player that is generally rare in the first place isn't setting up for success), but how important is it really to come away with one right now? The most important position on the field is your QB. The Bears look like they just might have one. The Bears also are in position to take a potentially long-time starter at LT. So, just do that. Sure, maybe your defense isn't as good as it could be, but at least your QB isn't dead, and that feels more important. Let's not get cute here, Poles. And Braxton Jones, unless he's made a MAJOR leap this offseason, shouldn't be your guy.
There goes that smartest man in the room thinking you can make a square peg fit in a round hole. Doing that it just seems you'll likely get a mediocre end result anyway, If Carter busts you're already there, but if he doesn't... I've heard rumors that the Loins and the Seahawks have shown interest in him, so he'll likely be gone, but you don't take someone at #9 that isn't plug and play. This draft can't get here fast enough I'm tired of seeing all these ridiculous mocks.
Given all this, I'm going to be furious if we don't go OT at 9. My thought is we won't though because it's the right thing to do and now I'm hearing things about Bijan Robinson being a possibility at 9.
I believe they're going to take a RB, my guess/hunch is it'll be early--because as I stated somewhere on a previous page, I don't buy Donta Foreman as the new lead back or even a 50-50 guy with Herbert. His previous production and present salary on a 1 year deal scream RB3. Some may call me an alarmist because I do not want a RB round 1, nor should any team drafting in the 1st round in 2023. The first issue is that the bears are one of the franchises dumb enough to draft a RB round 1 in 2023. The 2nd issue, (and this is for all the Poles defenders on CCS and Reddit who think he's not like the rest of the GMs)--was that Poles was director of college scouting/assistant director of Pro personnel in KC in 2020 when they took a RB (Clyde Edwards Helaire) round 1. He's done it before. It absolutely can happen. And I'll hate it if he does it again. I'm with you about OT at #9. I just don't see it happening though. And I hope I'm wrong. Ehhh I get what you're getting at but this is having your cake and eating it too. The entire Ohio State game he was blocked, which is why you implied laziness 'he wasn't blocked when he didn't want to be." He did flash, you did see him pop, but by the time he got past the C/RG (Luke Wypler and Matt Jones--neither of whom I would complain if the bears drafted mid rounds) Stroud already let go of the ball. It was all-too-familiar with Bears defenders last year. If Jones wins a summer camp battle against a high draft pick, fine. If he's just being given LT with no competition, it's going to look really fucking stupid, especially when there are 3 really good looking college LTs (Skoronski, Paris Johnson I'll put in there, and Darnell Wright from Tennessee) and one should be there at 9.
I think when you look at how to fix the O line you need to take a weakest link approach. I think we would agree that C was the worst followed closely by RT. I will die by the opinion that RT = LT in todays NFL. Good teams have two good edge defenders and if they don’t they’re sending their best off the right side anyway. If we can enter fantasy land for a moment let’s say the Bears land a tackle in n the 1st followed by a C with one of the 3 late 2nd early 3rd picks. I can’t think of a better scenario. And if this happens Jones will still have the inside track to start at tackle. Does it really matter if it’s left or right?
This is fair, and I think ultimately is still in line with what we're all looking for - draft a legit starter at OT early. Don't mess around. Like you and Pat said, if Jones earns a spot on the line, fine. But don't hand it to him by letting him walk into camp as the best of bad options. Also, for Pat - Ev is drafting your wet dream, right now. Grabbed the two big Northwestern draftees right away. From his mouth to Poles' ears?
1 - LT 2 - RT/C 3 - whatever position Cody Whitehair plays--because I think he's done and paying him 14+ mil this upcoming year and just under 14 in 24 to be as middling as he has been the past 2 years is absurd. I like how you're thinking deep playoff run, because that's where you're going to see teams with two good edge defenders, so in that context--I agree. But bigger picture I disagree. A lot of teams don't have 2 good edge rushers, which is why good DCs adjust to that by having 1 good pass rusher and mixing up where the other pressure will come from (blitzing LB/DB, stunting, etc), and to be Captain Obvious for a second, if you take a look at the market/salaries, good RT =/= good LT. But that's not to say the bears shouldn't get two good tackles. Right now I can't even say they have one. I'm not allowed to have nice things. I consider it Newton's 4th law. Only applies to my dumb ass--so Bijan and defense, here we come. I just checked out the thread and there's a Lions fan on this board? And a packers fan other than Packerz? Good on Tim for growing the site.
I am sorry I have to disagree. Times are changing. If you look at the top paid tackles in the league RT’s are infiltrating the top 10 more and more. If you honestly feel Jones was the weakest part of the o line last season then I don’t see the need to go further with the convo. It’s like a dem and rep trying to agree on abortion. Not going into next season with a legit upgrade at C is a fail no matter who is penciled in at the tackles. If Jones is the weakest link after upgrading the rest of the o line so be it. Ignoring the rest of the line to replace Jones is just dumb. You can’t fix everything with one draft. But the way it’s looking we can definitely remove the excuses for the offensive side of the ball going into this year with the right additions. And that is not adding a WR or RB with pick number 9.
If anyone is paying attention Ev is killing it in the mock. I mean bravo dude. We can only hope our real GM shares some of your sense.
Thanks man. The picks will prob get worse now as by these later rounds im rapidly running out of knowledge base heh. I could've hooked pat up with a 3rd Northwestern player there but the bastards kept picking after it was meant to finish for the day so i got up and the CB was gone. Really good read from you guys re the OL. Have one thing to add but im out of time i'll try and chip it in later.
Laremy Tunsil 25 mil AAV. Trent Wiliams 23 mil. David Bakthiari 23 mil. Jake Matthews 18.33, and Kolton Miller rounds out top 5 paid LT at 18. RT? I'll give you Lane Johnson (even though he splits time at both spots) at 20, Jawan Taylor 20, Ryan Ramczyk at 19, and McGlinchy and Taylor Moton at 17.8 and 17.5 mil (all numbers per spotrac). NFL Active Player Contracts NFL Active Player Contracts Even though McGlinchy and Jawan Taylor just helped your argument by being overpaid, I attribute that to desperate teams overpaying in FA, not Jax or SF (two playoff teams) making a position you consider equal a priority. Why did SF and Jax (again, two playoff teams) let those guys go but Houston stop mid-contract and make Laremy Tunsil the highest paid at his position? Why didn't Houston decide they needed someone at RT, an equal position and pay for that instead? Not getting 'RT = LT' vibe here. You say RT is equal to left now? I'll give you this, two guys who just got paid really help your money argument, but I don't think you've met the burden of proof. Unless someone else here wants to chime in and let us know if they'd feel great about paying McGlinchy/Taylor what was paid to them as opposed to just having one of the top LT. Feel free to let me know and I'll concede to Rob. I don't believe you've met it, because otherwise, why are the top paid OT still LT? I think your argument is a lot stronger if for the next 2-3 years RTs like Taylor and McGlinchy keep getting stupid overpays until its no longer an overpay and its just what the market is when a lot of people attribute their overpays to salary cap/TV contract implications leading to healthy cap increases by year. ANd let me be clear, I don't oppose a guy/RT who holds out for more $$, especially if there's a team willing to pay it to get a competent/proficient player. I think your argument goes down the shitter especially if McGlinchy or Taylor doesn't play out their full deal with their new teams (and I'm not talking injury related reasons). And I think there's a pretty good chance of that or a restructure in the coming years. Now what are the chances any of the top 5 LT don't finish their deals/get asked to take pay cuts? We don't disagree on what spots sucked on the OL last year. I just prioritize LT over C and RT. Center was bad, but I don't need to beat a dead horse about Mustipher, and Riley Reiff wasn't entirely useless at RT last year (Alex Leatherwood sure was). Reiff was actually serviceable and mostly average (don't get me wrong, he had plenty of 'meh' to not good plays)--which for the bears wasn't bad, but for the future, a 33 year old who can't be counted on health-wise and can't really run block--Reiff isn't a guy who should be back. But again--crazy concept, I know--two things can be true at the same time. Braxton was also weak, he's just buffered differently because he's young and cost controlled and had health going for him. When he has one complete good game followed by getting his shit stomped by an undrafted rookie from Detroit, along with all of the downs and a few ups (if you like watching a 315 lb LT run over a 190 lb DB and Jones playing a full year/not injured) and all the metrics overinflate that he's a 1 way player/run blocker--you can feel free to kid yourself that he isn't a weak link. Feel free to disagree with me that I value LT far more and that finding a competent LT, let alone talented--is far more difficult that finding a competent C. Teams can find starter-quality C in FA for 5-10 mil a year, Cinci stole Ted Karras, a guy I wanted in FA for 3 years 18 mil. They went to a superbowl and the AFC championship the past 2 years. Poles stuck it out with Mustipher being limited in cap space and picks. An influx of talent at C isn't hard to do when the objective is 'improve on Mustiphuck.' LOL. I appreciate it but I'm heavily biased for my garbage college team (you can still draft RB Evan Hull in the late rounds for the Northwestern trifecta). Only pick I don't like is the Army DE. Not because I don't like the player, its because Armed Forces (Army/Navy/Chair Force) don't always let players break their service contract to go to the NFL. I remember during Marinelli's last draft as a Loins HC/right before he came to the bears he took an armed forces player (Caleb Campbell) and after 1 preseason game and the media hyped him/he did have a good game before he had to report for duty/stop NFL activity. Edit** So there is a rule called the 'Alternative Service Option' where an armed forces player must give 2 years service before he/the team that drafts him can 'buy out' his remaining 3 years. If the Army kid has 2 years already and won't miss any time with the bears then do it.
I've been watching more of the centers in this year's draft, and I've gotta say, there are several guys that I could see come in and make a difference - and not all have to be drafted early. The only thing I'm not sure of is how much experience each has with calling protections - that depends on the offense, and it's hard to see that on film pulled from TV recordings. While he's got a low ceiling, I could see the kid from Michigan being capable of stepping in and replacing Mustipher day one, and he should be available on Day 3. So I'll be disappointed (read: seethingly angry) if Poles walks out of this draft with no one in free agency or the draft to take over that spot.
In all fairness, I could see Babyfan stepping in and replacing Bustipher, and you could get her with only a case of Corona's.
I've seen this a LOT on Reddit now, Bijan being the pick, or other teams all picking him 1st round. The hype on this kid is something else. I got a bad feeling honestly.
