This is where I’m perplexed. Claypool is slow, and a ‘tweener’ TE/“possession receiver” with size. Im sure cole Kmet is happy to be teammates with his buddy again. Though if Poles is really doing the ‘Notre Dame Bears’ (St Brown, Mustipher, Kmet, now Claypool,) find their garbage qb Ian Book and put him on the PS, find Alex Bars and that other PS OL kid that didn’t last long. Can’t do any worse at back up LG or RT right?
So, this pisses me off. In the Roquan thread, the point was made that the Ravens weren't going to give up more for Roquan because "They're an organization that does it right", and the Bears' GM's are the types of guys that give up too much in trades like this. Then the Bears turn around and give up MORE in trade for a WR that we're all "hoping" will perform better here than he was in Pittsburgh. The Ravens aren't "hoping" that Roquan will be good there, they know he will be. So why did the Bears give up more? Sorry, y'all, I can't get excited about this move. Maybe he'll be phenomenal and I'll feel better. That would be nice.
Looking at both, I still think the Roquan deal was fair, maybe a little low on value but pretty decent all things considered. This one, I think it's pretty clear the Bears overpaid by quite a bit. I was more ok with the build through the draft mentality. So while it may not have been for spite (you're right Shame made no sense, but this one they DO need a WR), they did get in a bidding war which explains the pick being the Bears and not the Ravens.
Well this morning I am feeling less enthusiastic about the deal than yesterday. Thinking it through and looking at past trades for WRs (Deandre Hopkins went for a 2nd?!), we definitely overpaid.
I read a quote from Poles basically indicating that the market for WR's this coming season (not sure whether he meant free agency and / or draft) wasn't to his liking, so he'd rather trade a pick for a WR he liked than not get one. Again, this is frustrating. Yes, you need a WR. But you're buying at the deadline - the primo "overpay" time of year - and doing it for a team's castoff WR. I guess this is better than Pace's approach of "I cut this guy so I could draft someone at his position with my first pick", but it's still not what I want to hear.
Blang beat me to it, but apparently the bears had to have Claypool over the packers. Its happened twice in recent memory, one time it really worked out (granted it was FA and GB wanted AR to be a #2 for less $$$), the other it was comically bad (Chandler Jones is a probable HOF). Allen Robinson and Shea McClellin. Not a fan of this mentality, but if it works again--sure. This is true, but now he's backed himself into a corner (granted he's got cap space for now and doesn't have to drop 20 mil on an ILB on top of the 120 mil) that in another year he's going to have to pay Mooney AND Claypool. Nothing to worry about now, but if by this time next year both are walking into FA with no extension, Poles will be open to some rough albeit warranted criticism. And there has to be some reservation from fans and everybody questioning this move as a move a contender going for the last piece to 'win now’ which the bears are not. What are the odds Claypool comes in and just starts posting 100+ yard, 7+ catch games? Yeah, not high. He didn't do that even in Pittsburgh, but what has me the most concerned is behind a rookie (Pickens--who I maintain Poles did the right thing NOT drafting him), Dionta Johnson, Juju in previous years, and the TE Friarmuth and his production has just....dropped. Is it on Mitch? That's too easy to chalk it up to, though Mitch's stats throwing 30+ times a game this year look a lot like Nagy years, underwhelming and struggling to get to 200 yards passing, so I get why one would argue that.... Is it on the bum rookie in Pickett? The scheme? You look at his first 2 years and go 'yeah, I want that guy' posting nice stats but the year he just gets dropped out of the offense and became a guy who posts great #2 WR stats on a rookie deal most other teams would want to keep who just stopped being valuable. That's a red flag for a guy making 675k this year and 1.5 mil next. Hope I’m wrong.
Thats very candid of you blang. I ripped this trade yesterday, or at least the price it cost, and that was correct, but having thought about it let me be a little candid and pragmatic myself. It has been widely reported the Packers weren't just interested in Claypool, they offered their 2nd round pick. There's really no reason to doubt this imo as it lines up in too many ways. Given that, there was really no way for Poles to get this done without offering what he offered. Any deal involving the Ravens 2nd rounder would've been less attractive than the Packers 2nd rounder so would've had to include a second pick. A 4th rounder at least, maybe even the 3rd rounder. That would've looked like an utter fleecing too. So i really don't believe what Poles paid was a needless price in the mold of Pace re Trubisky or Fields and that should prob make us feel a little better. Also being completely pragmatic about this, the situation was the Bears WR's sucked balls, Fields wasn't getting nearly enough help and something had to be done. Nevermind last offseason for a second, thats water under the bridge, here now today it was bad and something had to be done. Poles recognized that and did something. Im not sure how much trading for 1 OL would've helped right now when there are at least 2, maybe 3 others also failing on a regular basis. So it was right to target WR. Fields does at least have another option on the outside now who can be a big target and hopefully help him out to an extent immediately. By the time next season rolls around there should be way more chemistry than if Poles had made his first WR move next FA or definately next draft. None of that is me suddenly saying im ok about this move or the chain of events that led to it, im not. But i understand it. Poles seriously failed the offensive side of the ball, particularly Fields last offseason and its right that he fully owns that failure. But like i tell my guys at work, every time you have a decision to make you are in the present. In that moment it doesn't matter what you did previously or if you fucked up cos its gone. What are you going to decide in the present to make the best of things. This is the present and the board was laid out as it was, Poles did something to make the best of things. That should be acknowledged. Having ripped him more than anyone for not giving Fields any support, there's just a little too much hypocrisy for my liking about then giving him an equal ripping for getting Fields some support. We'll see how it pans out.
Hoge and Jahns had a similar point Ev, that the market is who is buying. In this case, the Packers were bidding for Claypool with the Bears (at least) so that drives the prices up, regardless of how good he is. No one was bidding for Roquan's services, so he got less. You don't get a choice on price, you get a choice on whether to pull the trigger. In the case of Roquan, I stand firm in hindsight it makes sense. Poles said in the presser it was clear Roquan was not going to come down in price, he wanted to be the highest paid LB, and he's good, but not that good. It would handicap the team, so getting what they did is good. In the case of Claypool, they did need a WR. And lets be clear, if he did not pull the trigger and the Packers got him, many of the Bears fanbase would be absolutely tearing him apart. In this case, I'd have rather had the draft pick, but I can't really hate him too much over it. I would rather have had the draft pick honestly and was liking the accumulation of picks. I was looking at past Bears drafts for some reason, and it really is true those first few rounds are the bread and butter. Urlacher AND Mike Brown as the first two Bears picks? That's a win. Jeffrey was a second who fell out of the first and was pure value. There are gems here and there later, but the biggest names come from the top. And the pattern, from the Cutler trade to Mack to Fields is missing out on those first rounders. At the least, he didn't go that overboard.
So would I, and while I like seeing Fields making some progress, I'm still not convinced he's the guy. He's going to have to show me more of that after all, I was at the Bears-Bucs game in 2018 when Trubisky threw 6 TDs with 5 coming in the first half, and we know how that turned out. I was so out over my skis after that game that I've learned to temper my enthusiasm since. So I'm looking at this now as his audition to better gauge his progress or regress this season to see if there is actually something to commit to. When I hear "See Poles is committed to Fields, he got him a WR" but that's not how I read it. As Ev says: When the defense of Fields every week is the WRs suck balls, or the O line sucks balls, When most of the QBs in the league are getting rid of the ball in under 3 seconds and Dusty Fields clock has been on fucking daylight savings time, I see this acquisition as the chance for Poles to determine if it's time to shit or get off the pot. Nothing more and nothing less.
