As for Rex I realize there's not much of a leg to stand on except for my happy memories of Good Rex games during 2006, and despite all his shortcomings, he had the support of the locker room that year. I always say Good Rex was better than Good Jay, but Bad Rex was worse than Bad Jay.
At least Rex was exciting. Sometimes for you, sometimes for the other team. But you were in for a show.
Since we've been talking Bears offense, and comparing QB's / offensive talent through the years... This just popped up for me...
I’m allowed to like the guy, understand his fallacies and criticize them, understand the team’s frustration from the year and still discern that his 17th ranked passer rating that year was affected by his league lead tied for 18 INTs and 6 fumbles lost, when otherwise he still would have been in the 11-15 range and the rest of his stats besides passer rating and still say—at the same time— his year statistically meets BWW’s designated criteria. Not gonna die on a hill trying to convince you or anyone to like him/change your opinion on him (that won’t come for another couple decades of QB futility for most fans), but even getting a little objectivity is pulling teeth and I don’t get why for most fans (props to you earlier for at least admiring bias) other than 2014 was a shit year to watch everybody quit AND Jay had the 2nd best year stat wise in bears qb history. Two things true at the same time. Crazy concept. Feel free to nitpick weapons and talent levels based on the decades when the qb has nothing to do with what the GM/coaches put around him. Except for bust WR Joakim Iglesias (or whatever his name was, some wr from Oklahoma in jays first couple years chewing his ass out off the practice field and we never saw him again.) Was Rex fun to watch? At times. His Td bomb to Berrian in the 26-0 win over Green Bay was electric. I was pumped. My favorite throw from Rex. But was the team exciting because of Rex or because the defense was HOF worthy with league leading 44 takeaways, 54 and 55 starting their primes, and Tommie Harris wrecking every interior OL he went up against until he got hurt? We know why the bears were exciting in 06. Same reason they got to a super bowl. Same reason many of us are tired now trying to watch them build a team in the 2020s and why it’s not going well. Defense.
Since we've gone down this road I think Cutler's best years with the Bears were 2010 and 2011, not 2014 or the Gase season that lots of others point to. The rating in each year was 85-86, slightly lower than 2014, but with the smurf receivers and Omiyale and J'mucus flanking the o-line. He was at his best in mid-2011, that regular season Monday night game against the Eagles was a high point. Then Knox slipped down and Cutler got picked off and broke his thumb making a tackle. I think the 2011 team was set up to make a deep playoff run though Cutler probably would've shit the bed against the Peckers had we matched up against them. My hatred of him is driven by a few reasons 1) his futile record and stats against the Peckers 2) that everything was set up for him to succeed from 2012-14 and he was never better than average 3) the amount of guaranteed money we paid him after 2013 that essentially prevented us from properly rebuilding until 2017. I've shared this clip before I'm sure but this is my favorite Rex throw. Haven't seen a Bears QB before or since throw a better deep ball than this.
No like you i won't go ignoring things just because they might be inconvenient. As varder and dline said its good to have the posts even when we're blasting each other. I don't need other QBs to be part of the discussion to decide if Fields is doing well or not, i can evaluate him just fine on his own terms. If you do then have at it, all i would say is you will very rarely find a like for like comparison because skill sets & experience levels to name just two will unavoidably differ between QB's. That prob won't matter to you tho. Either way, funnily enough after all thats been said, one of your better bets for comparison as the season goes on may be a guy like Zach Wilson. Regardless you won't see much input from me on the matter. Im pissed off enough about the Bears QB situation as it is without writing lengthy posts about this QB or that on another team who's doing great. F that.
Didn't mean to correct you so much, as point out Kramer was fantastic in an earlier season, and like Jay, was subject to one of the times the Bears defense was horrific. When you look at those all time numbers for passers, Kramer and Jay are up there. Jay has 4 of the top 5 spots! I'd say this counts for what BWW was saying. So we have two whole whopping examples in all of franchise history. Maybe if we look up the stats for peers during the Luckman years we can get another one. The general point of our offensive woes is still valid though. For #1, Rex had his 0.0 game against the Packers in 2006, at his peak. I don't think any QB could ever have such massive disparity between good and bad games like Rex, oh man. It is entirely fair to be upset with Jay though for failing to deliver at the end of his tenure, when we built the entire world around him. I mean, we committed to Jay hard with so many resources devoted there that our Mel Tucker bullshit defense was just so shockingly bad. That was the Bears-iest way to go about "modernizing" their game. Gotta have some balance. I don't mind them investing in defense, but they cannot neglect the offense to the point they have either. I don't think we should have committed "Cutler-esque" to Fields on offense, but I DO think we should have addressed the line, and I think Poles thought it would be good enough. Again, that alone has me concerned about Poles. It is concerning to me too that Jenkins, who is turning out to be a great lineman, was rotating off the field up until Whitehair's injury. Poles did have a shitty hand dealt to him too, but like Fields, he's got to hit on the chances he DID get.
I haven't ignored anything thing you or anyone else has said. We disagree on whether Fields is capable of being the guy. That's it. To quote a poster from earlier, blow me. That is a possibility. In an ideal world that is how you should set up any QB you are investing in. (Again this is why the Cutler era is so infuriating.) Realistically this couldn't be done in 1 season for Fields. When you look at recent Bears GMs (JA to present), no one has inherited a worse situation than Poles. Not even Pace from Emery. When you factor in everything from salary cap, talent on the roster, age of the roster, and draft capital. That doesn't excuse the o-line neglect with the first 2 picks we had in the draft. Yes there were holes everywhere, but should the first 2 picks in the draft been used on DBs? No fucking way. And I like what I've seen from Brisker.
Calm down ya stupid bastard, i was agreeing with you. You said right at the start we embrace debate around here and i was agreeing with that, ie not just ignoring people cos we may not agree with them. "like you i won't go ignoring things just because they might be inconvenient." Haha. Thats an interesting turn of phrase varder. If im getting you right maybe it would've been more accurate to say should have committed Zach Wilson-esque(?), ie throw every piece of support we can at him, WR's OL, everything. Because Cutler didnt have that. They got him help at the skill positions for sure, multiple high end pass catchers, but the closest they may have got on the OL was Jermon Bushrod and he was never that good for the Bears. OL-wise many of the problems Fields has, Cutler did to. It used to drive us all crazy and was compounded during the Mike Fartz 7 step drop days. Guys like J'Mucous Webb, Frank "The Turnstile" Omiyale, Lance "i got shampoo in my eye" Louis- TM Tunafat. Personally i do think they should've gone full Wilson-esque for Fields. The era of Defense on this team needs to end, its past time to get with the 21st century. Anytime you drop huge resources on a QB you should be committed to doing everything in your power to make sure he can succeed. Two benefits of that besides the fact said QB actually making it: 1- If he's not the guy you will find out faster cos a lot of the excuses have already been removed. 2- Those WR's, OL's. TE's that you brought in will be there for the next QB anyway thus increasing his chances of succeeding. IMO this in a nutshell is a big reason why the Bears have never had stability at QB over the decades. They don;t commit to giving them the right support(i would throw in a lack of Offensive minded coaches here too).
Ah, can't argue this haha On a semi-positive note, at least that trade for Russell Wilson didn't go through. We'd have the same o-line, massive money tied up for years at QB, and no first rounder in 2023. Bullet dodged.
I'm not interested or disinterested in him, like all the other former Bears QBs that have passed through the QB carousel over the years, he just exists. From a Bears fans perspective, I would use quaditka because from the SBXX era the trend of fuckery (as Ev puts it) has been downhill. Bears fans have been Johnny Holmed for so long that this idiot has had enough. I subscribe to "things happen for a reason", and whatever that reason is for the Bears not ever having a capable QB escapes me. Even when a future HOF QB fell in their lap on draft day (Montana) there was a reason why they didn't pull the trigger. I'm convinced the Bears as a team (as I believe patg says) are in a clown vortex living groundhog year after year only changing the clown cast when it's convenient to do so.
Also, somewhat off topic. But when are we going accept that Packers/Chiefs/(any team with a great QB) OCs actually suck as head coach. Nathaniel Hackett being latest, possibly worst example. Ok, actually Nagy is the worst. But then you have Joe Philbin and Gase, probably a lot more I'm forgetting. All these guys getting jobs they didn't earn themselves but a QB earned for them. All of them showing that an OC matters very little as long as you have the guy. When did a great QB ever immediately start sucking once his genius OC left for a HC job, who then turned some bum into a great QB? Never.
Wilson has looked terrible so far. Goes way beyond the offense/playbook. Just so many bad decisions/throws. He's a lot less mobile than he used to be, that was in evidence last season too. He'd be taking these sacks and making poor decisions under pressure on behind our O-Line too. Maybe even more so. And Pace took a big swing at that trade. Looks like a huge bullet dodged now.
Yes. Fuck yes. This is what every fan who wants this franchise to modernize wants. Qb, LT, WR. These are the positions that matter if you want an offense in 2022. Poles didn’t prioritize any of these spots, which is why I believe it’s entirely reasonable to say what he did year one can and should be considered what it was—malpractice. Can’t take credit for it. Ev came up with ‘eternal clown vortex’ and deserves proper citation. It just fits with this sad fucking franchise. Gotta thank the weasel Pete Carrol for it. He was the one that blocked the trade. If I recall correctly Pace approached Seattle’s gm during the combine and 3 1sts were the headliner of presumed return. Then you had to extend him, and that’s 161 mil guaranteed he gets paid through 2024 or 25 before the remaining ~80 mil for the next 2 years. I don’t want to rehash Jays tenure here and never meant to. ‘Offensive woes’ for the bears historically on the non-defense side of the ball doesn’t do this franchise justice. They’ve been dogshit. Jays contributed some years to said dogshit. He’s also contributed to the 2nd-5th best statistical qb seasons in this franchises sad history and while he provided some dogshit years, I’m perpetually baffled fans go to lengths to discount and discredit him. I don’t want to have to keep bringing up Jay when we talk about success at the QB position for the bears in history, but until they get a guy who beats Jay AND Kramer (we all want this), you sadly have to bring him up when it comes to bears historical qb competency—for ALL of his shortcomings you’d prefer not to relive from the late 2000s/ most of the 2010s.
I guess to clarify, I mean, going all in on offense while bringing up a historically bad defense. The Jets are not doing that, as far as I know. Nor do the Patriots, to use another example. Cutler for some of those Mel Tucker years had a defense to make us as fans weep. Maybe a better way to put my thoughts here are, I'd rather prioritize the line before the skill positions, and not ignore the defense. And overall, get the best talent we can. However, where I do agree is the unbelievable sad state of affairs when it comes to this offensive line. Poles being an offensive line guy gave me hope, but then seeing what he's produced has negated a lot of that hope. At this point Mustipher being on the roster much less starting is an indictment of the talent level of the line. Winning in the trenches, and on the offensive line side is just so important, I would agree that the Bears have historically just not delivered here. A better line makes even shitty QBs look better. I was watching red zone and the number of times there's a big play that happens where the QB has a decent amount of time to throw? It's most if not all of them.
Fields played really well yesterday. So well that I have to say I was wrong about mentioning the level of talent around him. But he needs to continue to play at this level or better for that to stay true. He was locked in to what he needed to do to get yards. His throws were deliberate and delivered with zip and confidence. He had some good pocket awareness. Threw some dimes. Made plays with with legs. He had it going. The rest of the team was mostly dogshit with Mooney and Velus Jones being less dogshitty than the rest. Speaking of Jones....he runs in a nice touchdown off a pop pass and as the OC you think.....well, not gonna use that guy anymore? Cool. Bet the offensive coaching staff was touching themselves and each other all week thinking about playing Smith-Marsette all week. Oh, he's going against his former team bet he knows something we don't and we can exploit it. How'd that work out idiots? Getsy hasn't shown me shit yet. Yeah he's a rookie playcaller and yeah he doesn't have a ton to work with but his playcalling leaves a shit ton to be desired. That 3rd down call on the 2nd to last drive was just absolutely fucking dumb. How many gut runs on 3rd down do we have to watch go nowhere? Why no more looks for Jones after the touchdown? Why is Mustipher still in uniform? Why is Reiff on the bench? Why can't I be a reporter in the pressers and ask these questions? The defense.....ugh, the defense. No one thought it would be a good idea to try to stand near Jefferson presnap? Jam him maybe? Redirect him? Talk to him...anything? No we are just gonna play so far off the ball that Kyle Fuller would be confused and hope for the best. That was chicken shit defense. You don't want to get burned but you're totally cool with 12 yard receptions that continuously move the chains. Great. Thankfully Kyler Gordon can tackle because that's all he can do. Roquan is playing like he already got paid. Muhammed is shit. Robert Quinn looks old and is ending up 8 yards behind the QB on every rush. Dominique Robinson shows promise. Eddie Jackson is probably on his way to a Pro Bowl. And I like Brisker. That's really it. The rest can fuck off. Stop running the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs. Just stop. Fuck you Dante Pettis. That's all I have energy for.
Why aren't you a reporter BWW? Who cares if you're drunk most of the time, you're still one of the most articulate and you sure know your football. Go buy a paper or Ezine or something and be the Chief Reporter, Editor and owner!
I think it’s because every time someone from the Bears organization says something stupid, which is often, I would just stand up and yell bullshit. My Halas Hall credentials wouldn’t last long. I once got removed from a Blackhawks fan convention for calling Bill Wirtz a cheap fuck to his face. So you know….probably not the correct job for me.
Got to build on this for Thursday. No excuses about it being a short week. No sub-100 yard games. Continue to force the WR group to embarrass themselves. Make them look like the bums they are. It was a perfect second half for Fields save for the fumble on the last drive, which was the result of holding the ball too long. He doesn't need to be perfect, but those mistakes can't happen either. I didn't hate the play call because a 3rd down gut run actually worked in the first half for a TD. And as well as Fields was playing on that drive, it's a call that could've caught the defense off guard. It didn't, but I trust Monty in that situation. On a list of who is responsible for the loss, it goes 1) entire defense 2) fuckface. Pettis may be a distant third. It's amazing how many legitimately stupid human beings have lined up for WR for us the last couple years. Wims, Miller, now fuckface. After o-line, which needs to be prioritized first and second round, the focus has to be on some 4-3 DTs. Then you can worry about drafting edge rushers in 2024.
Hilarious. Your past actions often have both an immediate and long-lasting impact on your present life ha ha
