Hey TD, is someone holding a gun to your head? Like Lyman said real fans don’t waver. I know you are a real Brown’s fan and don’t have to try to be one.
Nobody holding a gun to my head. lol! The "trying" remark obviously went misunderstood. My bad. I just meant it's been brutal being a Browns fan. Even more so than usual. You'd think I'd get the benefit of doubt in regards to my Browns fandom though. lol! Rough thread.
Changing the label doesn't change the point. If you're drafted in the 2nd, you're a 2nd round player, 2nd round talent, 2nd round draft pick. Forever. Dumb point to argue. Just hear it all the time and doesn't make sense to me.
At this point, if I'm a Browns fan I'm looking for new leadership. This Watson decision looks to have been made with very little due diligence.
Dumb point to argue?? Really? So, Tom Brady is a 6th round talent? Just bury your head on this one Beach, you are making no sense what so ever. WHERE you are drafted does not define your career, or talent level. I really don't know why you are trying to make this a point.
I agree with Irish here. "1st round talent" is a very understandable concept, even if someone gets drafted in the 2nd round they can still be a 2nd round talent. Honestly, saying someone's talent level is directly related to where they were drafted is a very silly concept, especially with all the hindsight we have in the NFL. Considering how you've spoken about Baker Mayfield , are you now saying Baker was the most talented QB and player in his draft class since he was picked #1 overall? Are Sony Michel and Sam Darnold more talented than Nick Chubb since they were first round picks and he wasn't?
Honestly, the whole situation has been so draining to me on a personal level.. I am almost ready to throw in the towel. I will never go to another team to root for.. but I might reserve the NFL for fantasy football exclusively. Still holding out hope that something good can come out of this, but I really have my doubts... And no, I do not mean the Browns winning a championship on the arm of Deshaun Watson.
Well Irish already beat me to it with the ultimate example, but this is where my mind went when I read that. Steelers Hall of Famers John Stallworth = 4th rd talent. Mel Blount = 3rd rd talent. Is what he is. Kevin Green = 5th rd talent. He lucked into 175 sacks. Donnie Shell = Undrafted bum. They went 17 rounds in the 1974 draft.
I’m seeing reports that the Texans supplied rooms for Watson to get his massages performed. I really think the league should force the Texans to take back Watson from the Browns and restore their 3 first rd draft picks. I believe they might have held back some information about Watson before trading him.
I also believe that the league needs a new rule. If a player has pending lawsuits or criminal charges they can’t be traded until it’s all resolved. Watson had 66 different massage therapists in 17 months. What this trade really was about was your ownership being desperate to get a SB title in Cleveland. Yes SB titles are the goal, but selling your soul shouldn’t be necessary to make it happen.
Not just rooms, but blank non-disclosure agreements.... There is also reports that the new deal with Watson could be voided if NEW litigation is introduced that the Browns were unaware of at the time of signing. It won't happen, they've already made their bed and I think they intend to lie in it.. BUT if another 20 or so cases come from the other 46 women he allegedly hired and are not currently on any cases come forward, you never know. This would be bad for the Browns fans as I am sure there is no repercussions written into anything that would recoup the draft capital they sent to Houston to get him.
If you're judging talent alone Brady was a 6th round talent. Average arm strength, zero athleticism. He didn't do anything really well. Only thing impressive was his Wondelic. Tom Brady isn't more talented than anyone. He's just very smart and ultra competitive. He wanted to be the best and he was willing to put the work in to do it. Hindsight, obviously suggests he should have been the overall #1 pick. But maybe things are different if he is? Maybe he takes the Baker Mayfield approach where he thinks he's already arrived and everyone should shine his shoes? But there are always outliers. I'm sure you can find more than Brady. Even some undrafted guys. That really wasn't what I was getting at. I was talking about the process where the amateur scouting community (including us) talks about a guy for 6 months leading up the draft, mocks him in the 1st round all Spring and then calls him a faller because the guys that do it for a living pass on him. Nine times out of ten that just means we were wrong. It doesn't mean he was a 1st round talent that fell.
I'm really not diving that deep and my argument has been shifted to focus on the word "talent". That's not where I started. I was talking about the act of calling a guy whom you (me, anyone) was very high on a faller because they didn't go where we thought they should. Certainly, there are really "talented" guys that get drafted late for a variety of reasons. But it shouldn't provide cover for all evaluations that don't pass the mustard. The simplest answer in most of those situations is we just aren't that good at playing the role of NFL scout.
This too shall pass Irish. No one is forcing you to make a decision so don't make one. Just ride it out. See what happens. As each day passes it becomes more and more likely you won't have to root for Watson in 2022. That's probably the best a Browns fan can hope for right now.
OR... underlying issues pushed a first round "Talent" into the second round. Doesn't mean he wasn't just as talented than 31 other guys..just that he fell into a situation where teams didn't "need" his skill set. That is my "hindsight" evaluation, was the guy more successful than all but 31 other players? Then he was a first round talent from that draft. It, in my opinion, is ok to speculate on that as well. I don't see the harm in it.
You lost me there... As each day passes it seems more and more likely the Browns could lose another supporter.. What has transpired to make you say it more LIKELY I would want to root for Watson???
So, the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals don't have ANY contracts older than 4 years currently. That is interesting, compared to the extended length of contracts the Browns seem to be carrying.
Stanley needs to freaking play this year and play at his previous all pro/pro bowl level. The Ravens cap number next year looks fantastic considering they'll have 57 players under contract, of course Lamar's contract will eat into that. They also need to go ahead and extend Tucker now. No reason to even wait.
