I can understand that to an extent.. Much like those that continued to support Ray Rice and Ben Roethlisberger or any other player that has gone through unlawful situations, whether accused or actual sentences. There are those crimes that effect other human beings, like murder, domestic violence and sexual impositions on all levels and then there are crimes that don't effect others, like smoking weed. I don't have an issue with the latter, but the NFL holds them to a higher standard than the former, so I am apparently on the wrong side of the fence completely. All I can say on Watson is that I wish the Browns had waited until the entire business was behind him. That way they would have a Grand Jury unwilling to indict him and a civil jury unwilling to say there were reasons to compensate the victims. If THAT happened, then I wouldn't have much room to second guess the move. I was more than willing to risk losing him than take the bigger chance that he is a sexual predator. Now that he is here.. All I can do is speak my mind on what I currently feel about the guy that was chosen to be the face of the franchise. I have a LOT of negative feelings about it and frankly I don't care how tiring anyone gets hearing me talk about it. That comes with the territory when you make this kind of a decision, it effects both sides of the fanbase.
I don't know any of these women or Deshaun Watson and neither do you. So get off your fucking high horse Irish. The trolls haven't proven jack squat. Though at least you did acknowledge them as trolls. All anybody has is opinions. Who are you to judge? Do you know all the facts of this case? Have you ciphered all the "he said, she said"? Or are you just going to turn on anyone that stays loyal to the team and start agreeing with everything a brilliant poster like gideon says?
Dude, all I can go off of is what is written. Just because Gideon is an inherent troll doesn't mean I can't agree with him on something. It also doesn't mean I am "turning on a fan or the fanbase". I could argue you are turning on me because of my beliefs. I haven't decided to become a Chargers fan, but I sure as hell am not obligated to agree with every decision the Browns make and it doesn't make me the enemy when I do. When there is an intelligent conversation or debate going on, everyone knows I am willing to give my opinion on the matter. Doesn't mean I am preaching or judging. If you take it that way, you might be feeling guilty about something you said or believe, that isn't a me issue, it's a you issue and I hope you stop taking it personal. I didn't attack you in any way. I merely gave my opinion on a situation.
You're the one joining in with the trolls that are trolling the Browns boards. Can't you see these guys are getting off on this? There's no constructive debate going on. They are just trying to pull strings. Bill Cosby comparisons? Really? FWIW, I don't feel guilty about anything, but nice try.
I call a troll a troll when I see one, but I didn't see anything in their posts that would point in that direction... THIS TIME. I welcome posters from all teams to join in an intelligent conversation, otherwise it would get pretty boring. They don't agree with you and you attacked them, imho. There really is merit to asking a Bill Cosby comparison. Bill Cosby was, by the letter of the law, wrongfully accused AND convicted of sexual crimes. The highest court in Pennsylvania decided otherwise and all of those crimes are now stricken from record. He is NOT a sexual predator in the eyes of the law. So, the question is, if he is no longer a convicted predator, do you still see him as one. It is relevant since most of the Browns Watson supporters are saying if the grand jury doesn't indict him, then he must be innocent. I can answer that question for MYSELF, not for someone else. In my opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean he did nothing wrong. It merely means there isn't enough evidence to indict him for anything more than a misdemeanor which doesn't require a jury. If they decided to pursue something that would indicate a misdemeanor had occurred like indecent exposure, then they could have, but at the point in time that they went to the police it is very hard to prove. Regardless, he wouldn't get jail time, he would get a fine. It still doesn't mean that if he did what 24 women describe in under oath testimony, even if only to one of the 24 women, that I would want him representing my team. You have made it very clear on your stance as well. So, we have both made our choices, neither is right or wrong, just different.
I don't know of anyone that thinks Watson is completely innocent, nor do I know of anyone outside of this thread, that compares him to Bill Cosby. If you want to compare a football player to Cosby, try Sebastion Janikowski. He liked the date rape drugs too. At best, i believe Watson is guilty of wildly innappropriate behavior,, and I'm expecting the NFL to level a serious punishment on him. All I want is for the NFL to stop dragging their feet, and make a decision, so as a Browns fan, I know what we're facing. The courts have already made their decision.
I get that... We just have a different opinion on "punishment". In your case, what the NFL hands him is appropriate (to a certain extent). In my case, if any of these allegations are true, I don't want him to be a part of my team. Period. The courts have not made their decisions yet. In fact they are putting off the open trial until after the NFL season, which is another thing I felt was inappropriate. If the NFL does suspend him the entire 2022 season, does that change the courts mind in when they schedule his civil trials? I think that is one more way of exploiting the system. I believe that Buzbees side thinks that he will be punished more severely if the trial doesn't start until February of next year because of his contract. I think Watson's side believed that the NFL wouldn't wait another year to make their decision, so they would be more lenient without any civil convictions. In fact, IF the NFL went ahead and issued his punishment, it would give them credence to go ahead and settle out of court to avoid any further public scrutiny. NOW, the NFL is making a decision based on partial information, since they aren't going to wait until the trials. (which they probably believe they will settle out of court and the sooner people stop debating the issue at hand, the better it is for the shield). Even if he is suspended for the entire season, it doesn't give justice to the victims unless the out of court settlement is extraordinary. The bottom line though, or the line in the sand is.. There are those of us that do not want him if any of this is true, while there is the other side, which you are on, that has decided it doesn't matter if it is true as long as the NFL gives him a fine and/or suspension that is punishment enough and he will help the team win ball games so you can look past his issues. That is the underlying debate here, not necessarily if he is guilty or innocent.
I've already clarified, and stepped away, from the Bill Cosby comparison. You continue to hold on to it, and that's on you at this point. As has been clarified, my question was how can smoke lead to fire for some people and not Watson. You did immediately post a woman chasing money when the last accusation was made. Should everyone hold on to that regardless of what you have said since? You gotta grow up dude. People commenting on a topic aren't trolls because they are fans of other teams. I haven't condemned Watson, the Browns, or any fans. I've simply asked what was your opinion on other celebrities with multiple sexually predatory accusations and why, if it does, it differs from Watson. You not liking my question doesn't make me a troll. Hell, if you go back I've praised the Watson addition by saying the Browns may now have the most complete roster in the division and even argued with SAS' take on Watson basically being an average QB. I guess since that was team related ego stroking it wasn't trolling
If you are following the thread you'd know that I'm not holding on to your dumb comparison. Irish is the one that liked it and thinks it's fair game. Am I not aloud to respond? I say don't look to proffessional athletes for your moral compass. And I'm 1000% sure that once the smoke clears and the Browns start stacking wins, all these butthurt fans waving thier morality flags and chastising their favorite team will be on that SB wagon. Guaranteed. GTFOH. It was one comment, and there's no way you will ever convince me that it wasn't thrown out in 100% troll like fashion. So why don't you grow up. You weren't just summarily commenting on a topic with this horseshit, and you know it; That defines troll ....and that's what started this. I'm glad you came to your senses and backed off of it, but Irish took the reins and ran, so I have the right to respond. Besides, who on this thread, or any thread, has said they think Watson is completely innocent? Nobody I know of.
Football is a violent sport and we expect players to be normal people when they leave the field. Maybe some QBs feel the need to dominate someone after being chased and harassed by some crazy defenders trying to rip their head off. We want them to be angels off the field and demons on it.
Irish said, at 9:16am est, that he didn't agree with that comparison nor did he agree it was on a similar level. All he said is that he can see why the question was asked. You then made 4 more posts, as late as 1:31pm est still referencing that comparison. Even though I specifically said maybe I wasn't clear and re-stated my point, you then made 2 more posts on it. Feel free to respond as you please, but yeah, that's holding on to it. I don't care to convince you of anything. You've already proven you're willingly to make an assumption and treat it as fact regardless of anything anybody says. You're welcome to continue down that path all you want though I've been commenting on sports forums with most of the people here since 2006 from the CBS boards. They can tell you this is nothing close to me trolling. Just because it hurt your feelings and got you in a mood doesn't make it trolling. YOU started name calling with this "troll" business against me and Gideon from questions asked. YOU told a fellow fan to "get of his fucking high horse" because his views were different from yours. YOU then started calling fellow fans "butthurt" for not sharing in your views and stated they'll be back on board with wins. Irish has tried to calm things down with you and have a civil discussion, I've gone back and clarified my words and stated directly that I'm talking about the number of times accused and not the actual accusation, Gideon has only asked questions, while you've attacked us all repeatedly. Who's really causing this discussion to become problematic?
TERRIBLE timing after the conversation we have had today.. but.. Number 23: Watson’s New Accuser Details 12 hours ago Zach Shafron, ClevelandSportsTalk.com As if it could get worse for Browns fans with the quarterback Deshaun Watson situation. Well, I did say in a recent article of mine that the HBO broadcast with two of the accusers would be really bad for Watson. However, I meant that in regards to the suspension the NFL was going to give him this season. Not what just happened. A new accuser, number 23 in total, has come forward against Watson. Some details via USA Today: “In that piece, plaintiff was struck by the courage of the victims willing to step forward and speak and was extremely displeased by Watson and his legal team’s mistreatment and revictimizations of the plaintiffs,” the new lawsuit states. “But it was Watson himself claiming that even now he has ‘no regrets’ and has done nothing wrong that solidified her resolve. She brings this case seeking minimum compensation, but to obtain a court finding that Watson’s conduct was wrong.” The fact that this woman is seeking minimum compensation and just wants a court to find Watson wrong is eye-opening. Obviously, the first thing a lot of Browns fans would say when hearing about the lawsuit is that it’s a “money grab” and that woman wants cash and sees the opportunity to get rich. With the way it appears, that is not the case. Does this change anything about in regards to the NFL’s punishment? Well, some might say, “What’s 22 compared to 23?” This adds reinforcement to the situation. Almost a reminder to the NFL about Watson’s alleged wrongdoings and it will make them pick up the pace with a punishment. After all, it’s unfair to the Browns and betters to leave this without a final word. Watson recently took members of the Browns to the Bahamas on a paid vacation for all. He seemed pretty content with everything going on with this trip and such. It actually appeared everything was on the up and up for Watson and the squad moving closer to the start of the season. There is no way to actually know what the suspension length is going to be for Watson until the NFL actually gives it. We all can speculate and analyze the details of the situation all we want. Trust me, we have… Another reminder is that Baker Mayfield is still on the Browns roster and there is some speculation that the team could have him play if Watson does get suspended for a length of time. That would certainly be interesting to see how the team handles everything once news does come out. It never ends…does it? The waiting game continues with twists and Twitter turns. Zach Shafron I am a Cleveland sports enthusiast and the founder of this site. “I stopped thinking the way other people think a long time ago. You gotta think like you think.” – Legend Rocky Balboa See author's posts
I've been commenting on the boards just as long with the same people from the same CBS boards. Everyone knows me too, and it has nothing to do with any of this. When someone is being a troll on the Browns boards, I call it out. It clearly was, but I apologize if that term was too strong for you....How about instigator? And again, I'm only referencing that initial post comparing Cosby. That's what triggered this. I'm aware you backed off. Please don't go back itemizing all the posts again. It was a waste the first time. Regardless of Irish's strange take, I guarantee you that if you pooled Browns fans and asked them if this whole Watson deal is wearing thin, 99.9% of them would agree with me. Let me put it this way. Other than Irish, I don't know a single Browns fan that isn't sick of this, which is obviously what I meant when I said the whole thing is wearing thin. How he came up with this is a serious head scratcher; lol! My level of comfort on sexual issues in general? Really? Is this 8th grade health class? SMH... What the fuck are you even talking about? Wow.
I'm not sure how my take is strange. 99.9%, hell I would put it at 100% that it is wearing thin. I didn't say I personally wasn't sick of all of this, I wish to hell it never happened to the Browns in the first place. I am saying that I am not one to just "let it go" because time has passed. People get too complacent when it meets there needs, they are ready to stop talking about it.. Well, that's why things like this continues to happen in our society. "Let time go by, everyone will forget about it". Well, I'm sure as hell not talking about 13 year olds getting pubes... Obviously I am talking about the issues being brought up in the civil case. Not sure why you are making these vague posts just trying to make me sound crazy. My comment was based on the fact you are ready to move on, so if you are that comfortable with all the issues at hand, I don't know why you are tired of the situation. If you are that comfortable, then just wait for training camp and hope for the best from the NFL offices and the rest of the chatter shouldn't matter to you. As much as you discuss it, I thin it bothers you as much as it bothers some of us, but you would rather deny it to get a championship than face the other side of the coin... but I could be wrong. Maybe you would just rather everyone shut up about the obvious news that effects the Browns and just talk about how many yards Chubb will get this year. If that's the case, then put me on ignore and move on. When the subject comes up, I feel passionate about my stance on the situation and I am more than likely going to talk about it.
I didn't put that cringy remark out there, you did. And you referenced it directly at me. WTF am I supposed to say to that? I'm a Cleveland Browns fan, and this Watson situation doesn't change that for me...I understand it has for you. That's fine. To each his own my friend. But don't just sit there and broad stroke me as being okay with everything as long as there's no conviction.. I'm not. I have two daughters and I was raised with two sisters. I don't condone everything Watson is being accused of, and shame on you for implying that. Never did I say that I'm comfortable with all these accusations on DW. I'm a fucking Browns fan. Sorry I haven't burned all me gear and jumped on the Charger wagon, or whatever the hell you expect. And yeah FWIW, I happen to be suspicious of someone that claims a guy ejaculated on her, yet wasn't even bothered enough by that to actually call the police.That doesn't even make sense. Sue me. If you don't think Buzbee isn't rallying (with dollar signs in his eyes) all that he can to destroy Watson and the Browns in the court of public opinion, then that's just being oblivious.
Clearly that's where I was going. Glad you caught it. smh I suppose that isn't an obvious instagatory remark either? Hmmm.
Looks like only one jerkoff here is trying to ride a high horse. Why anyone bothers to engage with this fucking idiot is beyond me.
If Watson gets suspended the whole season then the trade was a big waste of time. I think if Watson sits out another season he will have to learn how to play again.
Garrett gets it. Myles Garrett won’t play judge, jury, executioner regarding Deshaun Watson’s legal situation, knows he’s “special” on field – BrownsZone with Scott Petrak
