Others seem to think they have a choice and exercise their rights not to show up without a long term deal.
It’s only going to get worse. College players are playing for 2 or more teams all the time. Players seem to want to move around and screw team loyalty anymore.
I'm not saying he doesn't.. You are missing my point. So much is being painted about Mayfield being a problem player.. There are other things pointing to him just wanting to be the best player he can be.. Showing up on a 5th year option, when many don't is one of those positives. Things changed drastically once they made the move for Watson.. that is my point.
Okay, let's put these numbers together Baker 62.8%, 3,728 TOTAL yards, 27 TOTAL TDs, 16 INTs and fumbles combined, 7.3 ypa, 65.5 QBR, 95.9 passer rating. Lamar 64.4%, 3762 TOTAL yards, 33 TOTAL TDs, 19 INTs and fumbles combined, 7.3 ypa, 67.3 QBR, 99.3 PASSER rating I did passer rating, you did QBR, we'll put both. Whereas all numbers are close, Lamar still beats out Baker in 5 of these 7 stats. He ties in 1, and he loses in 1. Keep in mind, this is without a doubt Baker's best year, but it isn't Lamar's best year. But then there are other factors that need to be considered. 1. Lamar did this behind a bad o-line, whereas Baker did this behind a great 1. 2. Baker had the advantage in the run game without question, taking far more pressure off him. 3. Baker had the WR advantage. 4. Lamar had the TE advantage These things have a huge impact on QB performance and Baker had most leaning his way. But what about those cumulative totals? Let's also remember that Lamar's stats are in 15 games vs 16 for Baker (Lamar missed an entire game due to covid). Lamar also sat out a few 4th quarters due to big leads Lamar played 917 total snaps in 2020, Baker played 1,047. So with 130 less opportunities, Lamar still generated more yards and points on the board, but also had a higher turnover potential. All the other averages are close enough, even though Lamar edges them all out. Again, this is a down season for Lamar, with a bad o-line, with a weaker run game, weaker WR corp, and only winning the positional battle at TE, while having 130 less opportunities. Hell, this is all with Greg Roman's passing scheme, which has been called out as terrible by many former players like Kurt Warner, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, etc. I've certainly never called him trash, an if the shoulder was that bad he shouldn't have played. But, clearly Baker's value simply isn't as high as some, yourself included, may think it is. Teams are willing to take their chances with Sam Darnold, Drew Lock, and Daniel Jones. Part of that is because of Baker's reputation, sure. But part of his reputation shows he can be in one of the best situations a QB can be in and still perform below expectation.
I never said he's a problem player. The only issue I ever saw in his game is that he's consistently inconsistent. He was happy as a clam when the Browns exercised their 5th year option. Right up to the point in time when he learned that the Browns signed a QB who had better game tape with a team that had significantly inferior supporting players. How many times have we all heard Berry and/or Stefanski say that they're always looking to upgrade the roster - regardless of the position? Apparently, Mayfield didn't believe that applied to the QB position.
Well this remains to be seen. Many factors involved, not the least of which is the $18.8M Baker is owed. The story hasn't been completed yet. Baker would definitely be an upgrade over the three you mentioned and at least a dozen others, so don't write em off just yet. What happens if a team with real SB aspirations has a QB go down with season ending injury? Suddenly we have a team desperate at QB, and here sits the Browns with a proven starting level QB available. The QB market is a fluid situation.
If you mean 98% operate in a system I'd say why not 100? The point is Baker said and did all the right things (and had success) when he bought into the system. And the systems QB friendly nature fit him. If that's not the kind of QB he wants to be and teams didn't see the ability for him to fit in a more demanding role it would certainly be relevant to why he isn't being traded - along with the other things mentioned. But it's only one factor among many. If I had to list the reasons why there has been little interest in Baker... 70% Ability 10% Current Contract 15% Future Pay 5% Maturity p.s. I know the Browns initially said they wouldn't honor his trade request but that was before they signed Watson. Are you suggesting they have been opposed to trading him since? That doesn't line up with what's been reported - and makes zero sense.
He is not going to be in Cleveland. Short of Watson being run over by a Mack Truck tomorrow, Baker will be elsewhere or on the street by the time camp rolls around.
Yet they gave him the MVP and Baker's is considered just part of a failed career at this point Dude did his thing behind, Ronnie Stanley, Bradley Bozeman, Matt Skura, Marshall Yanda and Orlando Brown... It isn't like they are the patchwork kids line you are making them out to be. Not that it matters, but in 2020, when Baker's season is being discussed, Wills was a rookie. I would definitely take the Browns line over the Ravens, but come on man... "a bad o-line"? their o-line was still better than the majority of teams in the NFL. Here is an article from PFF for me to reference... Ranking all 32 NFL offensive lines following the 2019 regular season by Ben Linsey Dec 31, 2019 2. Baltimore Ravens Lamar Jackson and the Ravens exceeded all expectations on their way to the No. 1 seed in the AFC, and the offensive line has been a big part of that success. Ronnie Stanley has had perhaps the best pass-blocking season we’ve ever seen from an offensive tackle since PFF began tracking players in 2006, allowing just six pressures in 443 pass-blocking snaps. It hasn’t just been Stanley, either. Jackson has been pressured at the ninth-lowest rate of any qualifying quarterback despite being the only passer to hold onto the ball for over three seconds on average. Whether letting Jackson work his magic or paving the way for the league’s best rushing offense, the Ravens’ offensive line has gotten the job done in 2019. Back to you RR... The Ravens had the #1 overall rushing rank in the NFL in 2019 averaging 206 yards per game, 2nd place dropped to 144.1 yards per game... The Browns in 2019 were 12th at 118.8 yards per game. In 2020 during Baker's best season, they were 3rd at 148.4 yards per game... who was first?? You guessed it, the Ravens at 191.9 yards per game. Don't come at me that it was because of Jackson's running, where the rush yards come from is irrelevant and I would say even MORE advantageous to the pressure card when the QB can do what he does with his legs. I will say that the Browns front office did a nice job of getting him pieces for the WR room in Landry and OBJ... Then proceeded to march out 12 or 22 personnel packages more than any other team in the league. Which would have helped immensely with Stefanski's scheme..
The media and several conversations on here are painting him as a problem player. This conversation isn't about Watson, the upgrade or anything other than... WHY ISN'T BAKER MAYFIELD BEING TRADED? That is the root of the conversation. We just keep getting these other conversations breaking off the main topic...
I don't think you can truly evaluate Lamar without also evaluating the Ravens running game. When it's firing on all cylinders, Lamar could take the team to the Super Bowl IMO. It would require facing some average defenses but that's the majority of defenses anymore with the way they have changed the rules. That offense is simply unstoppable when you can't stop the run. BUT... When the Ravens running game is operating at less than 100%, whether that is due to injury, loss of free agents or otherwise what kind of QB can he be? I have not seen to date a game where the opposing defense took away the run, defended the middle of the field and Lamar was able to make throws consistently enough to win. He just hasn't done it. Granted there aren't a whole lot of defenses in the NFL that can do that but the ones that have been capable have exposed his limitations. I can't wait to watch the 2022 Ravens. It's a big, big year for the future of Lamar and the organization.
Again, you are doing cartwheels around the most obvious answer. He's not good enough for teams to 1) part with draft capital, 2) take on an 18M guaranteed 1 year deal and 3) pay him the going rate for starting QBs moving forward. Basic question, basic answer. Everything else is just spin.
He's played his last game as a Brown, but he won't be on the street...Hopefully a deal gets done soon so we can quit talking about it, but if he's still on our roster come training camp, I'd expect him to report like a good soldier, and I'd expect the Browns to say no thanks. They can't risk him getting injured. I'd expect him to basically be on paid leave until a deal can be found. Just like Houston did with Watson last year.
As in 90% of the other cases of QBs being traded, the shocking part is that there isn't another offensive coordinator or GM that thinks Baker simply was underutilized in the system. In a system designed to have small QB numbers, the outside sources usually think they can get more.. In this case, I am one that believes that as well. The biggest issue in this case is the numbers game.. Baker's $18M and only one year left on a contract after an injury riddled season. Any team wanting to trade will want to extend him, but based on his 2021 season. Baker won't want a long term deal based on that season and thus there is an impasse. Under normal circumstances, it wouldn't be a big deal as he would simply play on the one year deal and negotiate after what is hoped to be a healthy season. In this case you are moving that period forward with a new team being involved. I thin you are 100% incorrect in your numbers above, probably for different reasons. I think it is 75% based on current contract and future pay combined because the 2021 season ended the way it did under injury asterisk. If it had been a fully healthy season and that was the outcome, then you would have his market value and both parties could live with it. Based on the 9 games played prior to the injuries, Baker (in my opinion with good reason) won't want to settle on a multi-year contract in the $15M per year range. That is what a journey QB is making these days. Yet no one is going to pay $30M per year either until they see whether he can play like that consistently when healthy. Your assessment of ability is based 25% on an unhealthy QB. He had a really good rookie season, a really good 3rd season... a bad 2nd year and an unhealthy 4th year. How do you assess based on that? Not at all. I am sure they would love to trade him at this point.. but despite the idiotic statements I have read about Jacoby Brissett being a better QB, if the NFL decides to hand Watson a 10 game suspension, then I DO believe that Berry would prefer to have Baker Mayfield as the starting QB over Brissett. They want to win in 2022, this isn't a throw away season. The trade has to make sense to them for it to happen. I also don't think they are in a no-takers situation. I'm sure they have been given offers by teams that believe the Browns are desperate.. they aren't desperate. They currently have $27M in cap space with Baker on the team. There is nothing desperate in this front office..at all. So, to give away the best backup QB in the NFL for $2M in cap relief and a 7th round draft pick.. That is terrible business. If a major suspension is handed down in the next few weeks leading up to training camp, then Baker's camp will probably realize it is in his best interest for future earnings to show up to training camp and win the starting position while Watson is out on suspension. Then he can be traded by the trade deadline and earn the paycheck he is hoping to earn. If he stays away or causes problems, then he could be benched for the entirety of the 2022 season without pay and he will be negotiating under the same guise in 2023. He needs to be here for, I believe 10 games to accrue a season. He needs to show up, or the Browns stand to earn back a LOT MORE of that $18M than they would for silly trade terms. So no, I don't believe they are opposed to trading Mayfield, but I do wholeheartedly believe they are smart business men and believe that a trade needs to make sense for both sides.
I'm doing cartwheels? You are just doing a plank... There is nothing cut and dry about this situation. It may be the single most complicated QB situation ever. The "he's not good enough" is the outlier here. IF Watson wasn't available, he was definitely good enough to remain the starter in Cleveland. Watson is what designated him a 2nd string QB. The draft capital coincides with both $18M and only guaranteeing his services for 1 season. The Browns are in a conundrum. They can pay $18M and have the best backup in the league in a year where it is plausible their starter could be gone for the majority of the season... or they can try to come up with a deal that works for all parties. What does that deal look like?? If you are team in need of an upgrade, do you sell draft capital for a guy you may only get for one year and then he is a free agent. Despite what he does for you in that year, he can negotiate his value which could be beyond your teams ability after that one season. What is that one season worth? That is where the impasse is. Obviously it would be easier had he not come off the injury season, they would know his value, but you are basing his skill level off of that season. If you were basing off of year 1 and 3, we wouldn't be having this conversation as he would be ranked in the top 12-14 QBs in the NFL.
Hallelujah, I want him to get traded as much as anyone. I don't believe he will be playing in Brown and Orange. However, I agree 100%, he isn't going to be on the street. There isn't a body in that front office that believes it is a wise business decision to cut him. Whether he is in training camp, I agree he won't be there, whether it is by him not showing up and the Browns not paying him or whether he does show up and they politely tell him to stay home and pay him.... UNLESS the league hands down an exorbitant suspension, then all bets are off. I could see Berry going to Baker's house and making amends. I would put Baker's probability of being in camp at 5% right now... If the suspension comes in at 8 games or more before then, I would raise it to 75%.
