Right on cue to my point... Just now on ESPN, Keyshawn Johnson made the claim that Cleveland has no reason to hold onto Baker, and that Jacoby Brissett is a better QB anyway. (let that sink in for a second.), If that's not enough, KJ's remark got complete nods of agreement from Marcus Spears. lol Make of it what you will. WTF are they talking about?
I accept that Baker has made an ass of himself on numerous occasions. His worst mistake was playing last season, which was yet another example of Baker putting himself over the team, which uncharacteristically (for Baker) backfired on him. He's always pushed to get his goal, and this time it bit him in the ass, but most of his "not being wanted" is a direct result of the late Watson move. The QB carousel had stopped by then, and no one thought Watson would go to the Browns, so he was left with virtually all options already filled. The guy took his team to the playoffs and won, 1 year ago, and now has no value. It doesn't add up. I'm a Browns fan so I hope they can realize some value from moving Mayfield, but I can't help feeling the timing couldn't have been worse, and the potential for any return is laughingly minimal. getting nothing in return for your #1 in the draft QB is a bad look, that they are stringing out, making the story go on and on. I'm sure every player, including those who clearly didn't like him still would like to see him gone.
Players don't decide if they are healthy enough to play. The training staff and coaches do. What the players want is irrelevant. You wanna know how healthy he was? Go back to Week 17 with about 3 minutes left and watch him deliver a blow with his left shoulder to a Steelers DB instead of just stepping out of bounds. Baker Mayfield isn't on a team because he's a 6 foot air raid QB who failed in the most QB friendly scheme a team can create, And yes, it wasn't all physical. The enormous chip on his shoulder was part of it, compounded by a lack of a contract extension in the off-season. Stefansky wanted a redux of 2020. Power running game, clean pocket, play action passing game using backs and TEs. Baker wanted to throw the ball downfield, win games on his arm and earn the Josh Allen deal. The other NFL GMs are all sitting around saying this guy isnt a team player. He's not a guy that can put a team on his back and what is he gonna be if you take away the NFLs best o-line and running back room?
To be fair, a lot of those 13 teams have QBs drafted within the last 3 drafts, and most of them were 1st rounders. They will look bad giving up on those QBs to pick up another QB who isn't wanted by his own team. Some also haven't put a good team around their young QB yet so they can't give up on them without seeing what they can actually so. None have had the offense Baker has. That said, the Panthers falling back on Mayfield was the most interesting development.
OK, that explains the Bears, Jaguars, Jets and possibly the Dolphins. It is still hard to argue this fact, when the Browns took an opportunity to improve on the position, even though he was a #1 overall pick that has had a lot of success. The rest of those teams are passing up an opportunity for improving their roster, imho. Forget the fact Mayfield was a #1 overall pick, that is irrelevant. Just taking into account what he has done over the past 4 years(including an injury filled digression year). No one on this list above has accomplished more than Mayfield over the past 4 years. I will give you Lawrence, another #1 overall pick with a lot of potential. Zach Wilson, wasn't as highly touted as Mayfield AND hasn't shown that he will become what Mayfield has already shown in spurts. Tua hasn't shown much to date, but I get giving him an opportunity to prove himself. Like Tua, Fields has potential that may not even be realized this season due to the lethargic plan the Bears have to improve the pieces around him. Wentz, Jones, Goff, Darnold, Trubisky and Lock have all proven they need to be upgraded, somehow, someway and Mayfield is an upgrade to all of those players. I get that some teams have taken the route of the draft to make their hopeful upgrades, so you can eliminate the Falcons (who aren't even on the list), Steelers and POSSIBLY the Panthers due to that decision... But the Texans relying on Davis Mills and the Seahawks going with Drew Lock... I just don't see the argument that can be made. After the bulk of the offseason is complete, the Dolphins, Texans, Seahawks, Giants, Commanders, Lions, Panthers and Jets would be a better football team with Baker Mayfield, in my opinion. In the case of the Dolphins, Seahawks, Commanders and Jets...I think it could be the difference between competing for a playoff spot. Again, I am only giving my opinion, but I have never seen anything like this having a QB available and no one wanting him..Maybe it is just me being blinded by the Browns. I am sure, one way or the other we will find out. He will get another chance.
How highly touted Mayfield was coming out of college doesn't really matter 4 years into his career. Ryan Leaf was highly touted coming out of college also. Once you see how they actually perform in the NFL, being a top ranked college player doesn't really matter. Not one of those players listed has had an offense around them on the level Baker has. Great o-lines, great RBs, great WRs, yet inconsistent and average performance. In that respect, Goff is your closest comparison and he made the superbowl.[/QUOTE] Davis Mills has literally 1 year in the league while playing for an all around terrible team. Nobody knows what he can truly do in the NFL as of yet. Drew Lock I'll give you, drew is pretty bad Unfortunately, I do think you're blinded by being a Browns fan. The fact is, in 4 years you can't look back at one season and say "Baker had a great year". At best, you can pull a Skip Bayless and say "he was good for these 11 games". The Browns have done their best to give him a top end offense. The o-line has been fantastic overall in his career. His RBs have been fantastic. His WRs have mostly been good (Odell looking like a top 3 WR with a broken and old Eli but looking bad with Baker should have been telling enough). Baker simply hasn't performed on a level he should have, given what's around him. His best season, from what I've read from people here and on other sites, is 2020. Well, in 2020 he had the exact same number of pass attempts as he did in his rookie year. Lower completion %, less yards (total and per game), less TDs (total and %), lower yards per attempt, one more sack. He did also have less INTs (by a good margin) and a higher passer (because of the INTs). But imagine that being the ONLY area of improvement? The o-line was better, the RBs were better, the WRs were better, yet only one area of improvement. There is no available team where Baker will get this much support around him on offense, and there's nothing in his resume to suggest he'd perform at a good level with worse talent around him than he's had. No team wants to trade draft picks, or a player, and then pay almost $20M for that. They'd rather take their chances with young players who still have room to grow/improve
Yeah, we're all blinded browns fans over here. Obviously there's no way can we look back at the year before last when Baker Mayfield led the Browns to an 11-5 record and beat the Steelers in the playoffs in Pittsburgh, while finishing #7 overall in QB rankings with 27 TD's and 8 Ints...Not to mention his rookie season when he set the NFL TD pass record, and finished a close 2nd to Barkley for ROY.. Are you just jumping on the popular bash Bake train?
Come on, TD. I posted too much for that to be all you took from it. But let's focus on 2020. As I said, Baker doesn't have a year you look back on and say "Baker had a great year"..........unless you're only going by Baker standards. By NFL standards, it just hasn't happened. He definitely went 11-5, no doubt there. But let's also remember that this fanbase argued hard back before 2020 that the offense was top 5 in the league at worst. Chubb was universally considered top 2, with some arguing him above Henry. The o-line was, what, top 3 at worst? The WRs were considered a top 5 group. TE was the only "weakness" and even that wasn't terrible. What did Baker do with that ridiculous cast around him? 486 attempts, 62.8%, 3,728 TOTAL yards, 27 TOTAL TDs, 16 INTs and fumbles combined, 7.3 ypa, 95.9 passer rating. These just aren't great numbers for someone surrounded by a top 5 cast. His playoff game against the Steelers was fantastic, I can't deny that. But his overall body of work on that year was decent/good. And this was his best season. A lot of people here love PFF, I think. Here's how Tej Seth from PFF ranked QBs in obvious passing situations over the last 3 seasons. I can't seem to embed the file, but feel free to click on it. They base obvious passing situations on league tendencies on down, distance, yardline, time on the clock, and win probability. Look where Baker performs when the threat of the run game is gone? I don't watch a lot of Browns games, but I did see a few last season. The ending of the Chiefs game and the Arizona game reinforce this. On one, he throws the game ending INT after staring down a WR. On the other, he consistently checks down and had like 6 completions for 18 yards, or something ridiculous like that, when he needed to go the length of the field in about a minute (details fuzzy and I'm not looking up the play by play so I may be a little off). Didn't the coach even subtly call him out saying he called down field pass plays and Baker chose to check down? Nah. I've been saying for years that y'all overrate/overhype Baker. Usually it's been in the form of the offseason "Lamar vs Baker" discussions. I've never said he was terrible, but I have said he just wasn't as good as some have claimed him to be With the talent he's had around him, I'd at least expect numbers/performance closer to Carson Wentz' best seasons than what he's shown. Even Goff has had better season performances. Judging by the fact no NFL team is willing to spend the draft capital or money to acquire him, it would seem they agree
While the Browns players haven't come to his defense, Joe Burrow spoke about him in a podcast yesterday... "That's a tough situation. He was hurt all last year. Every time we play him, he balls," Burrow said during an appearance on the Full Send Podcast. "First time we played him -- Thursday night during Week 2 of my rookie year -- we lost like 34-30. The next time we played them, I throw for 400 yards. He goes like 25-for-28 with five touchdowns. He went on a two-minute drive, touchdown, they won the game." As Burrow said, Mayfield had plenty to do with those outcomes, too. But none of that matters now, as Cleveland has turned the page to Deshaun Watson. It appears as if it is merely a matter of time before Mayfield heads elsewhere. Burrow sees both sides of this unique situation. He also knows from experience Mayfield is capable of leading a team to victory, but also understands why Cleveland moved on to Watson. "I think when you have a guy like Deshaun [Watson], you gotta take a chance at that because he's such a great player," Burrow said. "But Baker will land on his feet. He's a really good player." QBs a lot worse than Baker Mayfield have been moved in years past. You guys get off on the disfunction that is the Browns franchise, I get that.. I would too if it were one of your teams. But based on history, this just doesn't make sense. The only thing that would make sense is if Berry isn't smoke and mirrors and he REALLY DOES wish to keep Mayfield unless a proper offer comes in. If so, they need to be mending things with Mayfield somehow. Otherwise, you can give him away to the team of your choice by paying his salary minus $100k or something and gaining a late round draft pick. I haven't heard Berry mince words very often or try for the misdirect. If he has a plan he simply says, I don't wish to comment on anything related to the draft or free agency or another player or whatever the subject matter is. In the case of Mayfield he said directly that they will keep him unless they get proper compensation. With what is transpiring, I tend to believe that is his intentions.
You are tying yourself in knots trying to complicate something that isn't complicated. Baker on his rookie deal with the leagues best running game and o-line succeeded as a game manager in his 3rd season. He wasn't great at getting through progressions or handling pressure and he wasn't going to be a guy who put the team on his shoulders week in and week out and lead the team to wins. But the team didn't need that. The scheme (known as the most QB friendly in the game) didn't require it. It was based on power running, building a lead, using play action, getting the ball out quickly. Timing routes, a lot of balls to TEs and backs. Screen game. What it isn't is standing in the pocket, holding the football, vertical passing game. Finding throwing windows for a 6ft QB from an air raid system that created windows for him by spreading out olinemen. Could Stefansky win with Baker's skillset? Of course he can. With that oline, that running game with Baker playing the role of game manager the team could win games. But what do you pay that kind of QB when he's off his rookie deal? And that's a huge component of this thing. Baker doesn't know his own value. He doesn't know his own limitations. The chip on his shoulder while quite large doesn't compare to the size of his ego. He's "The number one pick in the draft!" He wants the Josh Allen contract. He wants an offense that let's him lead the team. He wants to be on Sportscenter. He wants more commercials. And teams aren't interested in that. 12 months ago we were arguing who was better. Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield? How did that play out? This is the same situation. If Baker Mayfield were as good as you think he is we wouldn't be having this conversation because he would have been on a team months ago. NFL franchises are DESPERATE for QB talent. QBs with even a modicum of talent have gotten chance after chance after chance. But no one will give up a 2nd round pick and 18M for this guy? Why? You think Cleveland wouldn't take a 2nd round pick for him? Heck they'd probably take a 6th to move on at this point. At this point it appears teams wont even give that up. Why is that? The answer is simple.
This all day. Name a more analytical team the Browns... This is why Baker didn't get the contract last year. It's why he wasn't getting one this year. His success came IN THE SYSTEM. Outside of the system, when trailing in a football game he very rarely delivered.
1ST and 3RD season.. but yeah, OK OK, you are talking about 85%+ of the NFL... so, I won't disagree with this, but he is in the majority of the league in that. Here is where we have the disconnect. The Browns haven't given Baker and his agent the freedom to go seek a trade. WE don't know what anyone is thinking contract wise. HE was willing to come in and play on the 5th year option, he wasn't skipping off season programs because of the lack of a premier long term deal. He only demanded a trade after they flew to Houston and begged a guy with 22 lawsuits hanging over his head to come in and replace him. As for your last line. EVERY QB IN THE NFL should want those things, if they don't then you probably don't want him being your franchise guy either. That is called drive, drive to be the best is not a bad trait..I'm not sure why everyone keeps painting it as one. History shows he doesn't have to be as good as I think he is.. PROVEN much lessor QBs have been moved in this league yearly without issue. No one is saying at this point.. I don't blame the Browns if they aren't getting two first round draft picks for him... They aren't even saying a 2nd round pick AND take on his $18M contract. AGAIN, we don't know what the Browns are truly looking for, but if it is higher than a 3rd round and half of his contract, then they obviously want to keep him in Cleveland. If it is higher, then Berry isn't doing his job and if it is lower then THAT is what I am arguing about.... QBs have found a way to move around this league at a high rate when you are at the level of Baker Mayfield. It is actually HARDER to move at QB when you are at a higher level than he is. He is at the exact level of a guy that gets traded regularly, year after year. None of this makes sense.
Again, you can say that about 85% of the starters in the NFL and about 98% of the QBs in the NFL... This is irrelevant to why he hasn't been traded...
Were we that much better than the Ravens? I'm not as good at this as SAS, but just for comparison, lets look at Lamar in the same season, coming off his MVP year; 376 attempts, 64.4%, 3762 TOTAL yards, 33 Total TDs, 19 INTs and fumbles combined, 7.3 ypa, QBR 67.3 It was year 3 for both QB's, both won 11 reg season games. And now, just one season removed, we're supposed to believe that Mayfield has no value, while Lamar is looking to cash in around the $45M to $50M per year range? Baker has a reputation problem, for a number of reasons, that I've already covered on this thread, but he isn't trash like everyone keeps implying. He took a step back last year with the shoulder injury, and shouldn't have tried to play through it, but Mayfield has value.
Brown’s fans don’t want to admit that they’re team reached when they picked Mayfield. We wouldn’t be here having this conversation if y’all had picked Allen or Jackson instead. And Mayfield would be on his second or third team already.
" HE was willing to come in and play on the 5th year option." ??? HE didn't (and still doesn't) have a choice. The Browns owned his rights when they exercised that option. And, OBTW, they exercised that option months BEFORE it became clear that Watson would actually be available.
This conversation has nothing to do with reaching or where he was picked. In 4 years in the league he has outplayed numerous QBs on other teams that are needy.. That is all that is relevant to this conversation.
