Fully guaranteed contracts is going to be the new norm for QBs unfortunately. So you better get it right or really throw your franchise for a loop. If you have a player have a career ending injury you still have that player on the books till that contract runs out. That could screw a team up for a few seasons.
Is this thread turning into a nonstop diatribe against anyone that actually still cares about the Cleveland Browns? FTR: No Cleveland fan asked for this. Just trying to make the best of it here. There's one thing that is certain in my book....Come Sunday in September I'll be rooting for the orange and brown. It doesn't matter who the QB is. It never has...
No secret about it - the Browns' F/O cost them my fanship for as long as Watson is on the team. But I apologize if that hurt has spilled over into the posts. And no judgement here either way from me, hope that also has been clear. My problem isn't with the fans whatsoever. That said, definitely won't be rooting for them this season. And my critique thus far hasn't been related to personal negativity but rather what I genuninely think are pitfalls and/or issues. Not sure how anyone has watched the last two seasons since Berry & Stefanski have been here and walk away with the conclusion that we're a Deshaun Watson away from a Super Bowl title. For former QB (TFQB) didn't hemmorage 31.3 PPG to top offenses. TFQB didn't keep elite weapons off the field (Kareem Hunt). TFQB didn't rush key players back from injury. TFQB didn't allow a toxic wide receiver to split the locker room. TFQB didn't muff a simple punt against Kansas City or miss key field goals in two other losses. TFQB didn't have a practice-squad level of talent to throw to during the regular season, 80% of which has been cut or not re-signed and TFQB didn't create more holes the roster by failing to re-sign some key guys from last season. TFQB had plenty of faults - especially last season -- but swapping him for DW isn't going to take the team from 8-9 to a Super Bowl win. I've spent several posts recently addressing the on-field component to DW's game which I personally am not high on. He was picked by a team with a consistent winning record and actually sunk the overall winning percentage in his time there. Along the way, he tore his ACL in a non-contact drill. He quit on the team and organization and sat out a full season. He posted above average numbers in his first three seasons against an NFL-worst AFC South division. He posted gaudy numbers his last full season (2020) tossing over 40% of his touchdowns in garbage time at end of games and over 30% of his yardage -- **and** he still got to play against a trash division (half of his four wins that year came against the hapless, 1-15 Jaguars). Perhaps more than that, DW's post-season numbers compared to TFQB's post-season numbers (since we're talking about getting to and winning a Super Bowl) are substantially worse. DW: 63.5% comp., 290.0 YPG, 4 TD (3.2%), 1 INT (0.1%), 91.0 QB rating, 4.7 sacks per game TFQB: 62.0% comp., 233.5 YPG, 4 TD (5.6%), 1 INT (1.4%), 94.0 QB rating, 0.5 sacks per game All those above complaints are irrespective of his numerous off-field issues that could lead to extended time missed from suspension and independent of any morality concerns on my part.
Mayfield has been wearing out his welcome since he arrived. No QB in history is as good as Baker thinks he is. How many times have the Browns needed #6 to come through in the final drive, only to see 3 and out, or interception? He's no Sipe. He's no Kosar. I'm not even sure if he's a Holcomb. We ALL wanted him to be THE guy, but he just isn't...Other than the miracle in Cincinnati, Baker has been ultra NON-clutch for the Browns when the game is on the line. The tape is on display..... My personal opinion: He plays favorites. He'd rather go 3 and out and lose, than throw the ball to the wide open guy that he has a personal issue with... Odell's dad's tape didn't lie. Is what it is. Every game I've been too during the Mayfield era, I sit upper deck, and it's clear that he misses guys that are wide open.... It's not what I wanted either. He's just okay as a QB. But I digress... Maybe he'll see another UFO this offseason. Who knows? I'm sure he'll find a way to get himself in the headlines.
This is pretty much it, minus the part where he threw his coaches under the bus because Josh Allen got the big extension and he didn't.
Two Posts that IMO sum up the Baker Mayfield era: SAS goes analytics (select ones) and Top Dawg goes personality. Both have fair points, and underscore the rift. I'm left wondering if we have a FO / coaching staff that can effectively deal with "personalities". We had Baker, Odel, and Jarvis, who are certainly personalities, and now we have none. I am not convinced they are truly prepared to deal with DW, if they don't like dealing with "messy". IMO Watson has two distinct advantages over Mayfield: He's taller and he's significantly more mobile. then .............. Those are advantages but aren't at the root of why Baker was deemed expendable. It apparently was the personality traits, and I'm not sold on Watson, who did "in fact" quit on his team, and demand a trade. We shall see what comes next.
Yeah, I'm still questioning this move based on talking points you mentioned above. Personality traits are important, I'm not arguing that point, but imho a guy who played until the last game of the season with multiple injuries that should have shut him down for at the very least part of the year vs. a guy who quit on his team, demanded a trade and has such a dark cloud over his head is a no contest. For me, the difference in personality traits is what makes up for the gap in Baker's vs Watson's actual abilities on the football field. First off, Watson is exactly 1 1/2 inches taller than Baker, not much of an advantage there. As for measurables, Watson isn't that much faster than Baker, 4.66 to 4.85. In fact in one drill measuring mobility, Baker outshined Watson in the 20 yard shuttle 4.28 to 4.31. But one thing that does stand out is Baker's arm strength, he had a 60 MPH ball velocity to Watson's 49 MPH. Will that difference in velocity change his abilities playing in December in Cleveland? I guess we'll see. My contention all along is that Baker Mayfield had a skill set that could get the Browns to a Super Bowl and win it. I think Watson can do that as well, but he hinders the process by costing the team (3) first round talents, (1) 3rd round pick and (2) 4th round picks... That isn't all... Even if Baker recovered and had a decent season, does ANYONE believe he would get a contract paying him on average $48M per year? No way, no how... At best, he is looking at a $33-38M per year deal. That's at least $10M that is gone for signing/re-signing players. Next season with Watson's cap hit at $55M (and subsequently the same $55M through 2026), we could be saying goodbye to Hunt and Denzel Ward. The levies bound to break and we are going to be making tough decisions on GOOD PROVEN players. With the money going to Watson, they must have a plan to shift from a 13 personnel to 11 or 21. Spending that much money on him is a major statement that they believe he can carry an offense, which imho means more WRs on the field, or possible multiple RBs, with one going in motion to become a receiver, moreso than staying in to block. I think you see a Njoku extension done, but I also think you see another WR move made, whether that is Landry or another proven talent. They are going all in on Watson, and quite frankly, I would have loved to see a healthy baker in that type of offense. Maybe he will get a chance at his next stop.
This is becoming a bit too much. Baker Mayfield had an injury to his NON-throwing shoulder. It wasn't a knee, an ankle, cracked ribs. It was a shoulder so necessary in his movements that they were able to put a brace on it and immobilize it. And if it's immobilized that means they can put a big old shot of Toradol in there so that he would feel nothing. Let's not put him in the Willis Reed category. And while his fans all want to paint a picture of a guy giving everything he had for the team the truth is Baker had a ton of personal motivation to keep playing. He wanted a new contract, the one he thought he deserved the prior off-season. Mitch Trubisky played with the same thing in 2019. I think it's fair to say Kurt Warner is an impartial observer, right? And a guy that knows something about the QB position? And I know opinions vary but I think what Kurt said prior to the Browns going shopping for another QB makes sense. And it kind of played out... “You've got to figure out as an organization what you're trying to do,” said Warner, who won a Super Bowl as the starting quarterback of the 1999 St. Louis Rams. “What's the goal right now for the Cleveland Browns? Is it to be competitive? Is it to win a championship? And then you ask yourself, 'OK, who's our quarterback? What level is he at?' “Then the third question becomes, 'Are we OK with that level, thinking we can raise our team's level around him or do we need to go and get a guy who can raise our level by himself and cut ties with a guy like Baker with where he's at right now?' There's some guys that it takes them four or five years, six years, to get to that level, and you might have a quarterback that you say, 'He's not there yet, but we think he's going to get there.'” Does Warner believe Mayfield, 26, can reach the point where he's capable of consistently elevating the Browns? “What I've seen from Baker, I would say no,” Warner said. “I would say I haven't seen him show me that he can be that guy. I'm only going to go off of what I've seen up to this point. I'm looking at tape. I'm not seeing him every day in practice. I don't know the makeup of him in the room. I don't know some of the X factors that go into it. “Simply by looking at the tape, I haven't seen good enough consistency by him to say that he can be a franchise guy at this point. I'm not in the business of having to project out two years. I'm just simply going off what he's done in these four years, and I just think he's been wildly inconsistent and inconsistent enough that I'm saying to myself, 'I'm not banking on this guy carrying me to a Super Bowl if he can't put together games in a season at a certain level of consistency that you need from that position.'” And right or wrong, it appears that's how Berry and Stefanski saw it too. So they went out and got someone they thought that could get them there. Because, when you are a coach and a GM the only thing that matters is Super Bowls.
No disrespect to a Super Bowl MVP QB like Kurt Warner, but he admits he can only speak to the tape that he sees. Do you HONESTLY believe he sat down and watched every game over four years so that he could give his honest assessment of Baker Mayfield? He isn’t a talent evaluator, he’s a talking head. All he really sees are highlights before his show comes on. I TRULY believe I have watched hundreds of hours more tape on Baker Mayfield than any talking head on TV or radio. Playing, understanding the game and watching as much as I have, I trust my eye more than an excerpt from a guy, who now has a job of entertaining people with a 30 second opinion.
This is the only pertinent part of your post. Based on Stefanski’s offense, their mind was made up the moment he was hired. Despite what he did at the end of 2020, they didn’t change the offense to open it up, they continued to run 13 personnel out into the field at the highest rate in the NFL. My bias is about the situation, not putting Mayfield and Watson in a line and all things being equal picking one of the two. If that were the case, I would choose Watson. I’ve said as much before. Given ALL circumstance, all things are not equal. Given those circumstances, my personal belief is the front office and coaching staff just made this team weaker. That is my opinion. We have outside influenced hurdles to face over the next couple of seasons, on top of a depleting roster due to much higher contracts and no first round draft picks for three years to make up the difference in that roster. I believe they made a bad choice, I don’t give a fuck if you think it is a bit too much, it’s an honest opinion with merit.
I agree they gave up too much. But at least they have a real QB. If they can hit on the picks left all is not lost and the cap will continue to rise each year. I'm not suggesting Watson is the answer but Baker was due a contract too. So they had to make a decision in some regard. And all this because they chose the wrong QB four years ago.
You know a great way to feel better about the #1's we gave up in the trade? Just go back and look at all the first rounders the Browns have drafted over the last 50 years or so....Anyway, I respect your opinion as always, but I disagree that the FO made the team weaker. They are "all in" going after that Super Bowl, and acquiring one of the most dynamic playmakers at the games' most important position is a huge step in that direction. With the speed that we can put on the field right now with guys like Shwartz, Felton and now Grant, to compliment Amari Cooper, our passing game will be dramatically improved. We already have the best running game in the NFL. It's going to be the best Browns offense we've seen in our lifetimes, and we aren't going to give a rats ass about giving up a couple future #1's..... Current LV Odds to win the AFCN.... 1. Browns +170 2. Bengals +220 3. Ravens +220 4. Steelers +1000 (Imagine what the odds would be if DW wasn't looking at a likely suspension.)
All good points until the odds portion. They are never accurate. What were they a year ago. Also, the '23 first would have been used on a QB anyway right? So you can almost say they only gave up (2) 1sts. And they got a guy who has proven he can play.
You want to speak about bias? Mayfield led this team to 11 wins, the playoffs and a playoff win while healthy. What in the world makes you believe, given that reality, if he is healthy and has the backing of the front office in 2022, they couldn’t do that again? If so, what position would they be in to take a QB I’m 2023? You are sounding ignorant at the expense of trying to get a rise out of me. Just back down on this one beach. The decision has already been made, Watson is the next QB so we are arguing in futility. I am the one that needs to move on. My demons are deciding whether that is supporting a franchise that doesn’t care about morals in any way to win a trophy. I have dedicated most of my life(my family would attest to this), time and money and dedication to being a fan of this team, which I to anyone that doesn’t live and breath sports thinks ridiculous. Watching football the way I do keeps me sane, it’s my zen if you will. But I have always taught my family above all, God and his moral teachings need to guide them through life. Again, YOU can say this is a bit too much. I wouldn’t argue with you, but it is still my life and why I struggle with the decision this front office made to hire someone that could be a predatory asshole. For what? A trophy… A trophy that I have been desiring for nearly 50 years.. obviously not for myself, all I do is watch on TV. But watching the Browns inspired me to play the game. I played with as much passion as a teen as those with much more talent than I had were able to inspire millions of kids throughout their careers. This trophy was for the franchise that inspired my life path and now, even if they win it, it is soiled to me in so many ways by taking on players like Kareem Hunt and Deshaun Watson. I don’t expect you or anyone reading this to understand, but this is a little insight into what my inner struggle is. My father introduced me to the game of football and his love of the Browns. I lost him last September suddenly and I have been wondering what he would think of all of this. He is a God fearing Christian and looking down on me now. I know he isn’t judging but I still feel a need to make him proud. I have talked about my daughters in the past and I would protect them in any way I could from a predator, so how is it that I should support someone that could be just that? This goes beyond football.
lol! Is what it is. It's not an exact science, but it's completely false to say they are never accurate. They are right more often than not. You just don't like seeing Pittsburgh at the bottom. FWIW: Yes the Browns were the favorite last year as well, but shit happens. Baker's shoulder injury for instance. And then odds change.
