Just to be very clear, Cousins played under Stefanski recently, as well. So if you're using Stefanski as a reason why Baker can't be compared to other QB's, it seems like Cousins is EXACTLY the QB to compare him to, despite some poster's baseless objections...
So, if you are running the show, which of those doors that you mentioned would be the focal point for you this offseason? I get that you’re saying they all should be important, but what would be your order of importance?
Maybe this is unfair but, does Stefanski's focus on the running game strike anyone else as wrong minded? The entire league is catering the rules to boost the passing game, and we all drool over and rank the Top QBs. We aren't talking about how they manage games, but how they score points. Buffalo has virtually no running game, KC is much the same, Cinncinati does have Mixon, but they win and they score with passes. I love our RBs, truly, but the "run centric" approach, coupled with a clear lack of focus on passing, especially WRs is a weakness IMO. Leaning on the run to win, is foolhardy IMO. The run has to be a threat, but little more. You score and you win by passing. Can anyone imagine there being 4 touchdowns in 2 minutes (KC - Buf)? Ever? Most games come down to the last few minutes, and if you can't pass to WRs you are going to lose. I think you make yourself vulnerable by not understanding that the pass game is frankly more critical to winning, in the NFL today. The advantage of a great running game is in how it loosens up the Defenses, creating more openings for recievers to get open. In the relatively rare cases where you have a lead and can "kill the clock", the "run it down their throats" idea has merit only if you move the sticks. If you fail then leaving 15 seconds for your opponent with a passing game might be too much. Lots of holes in this argument, but I find this approach leaves us far less capable to make comebacks, and you can blame Baker, but i've always felt that if you don't keep passing, and need your QB to light it up to win the game, it will be easier if you have been passing all game, instead of turning the O upside down in a desperate attempt to pull out a W. I'll duck for cover now.
Perhaps I didn't express my thoughts clearly. If I focused on the "improve Mayfield's supporting cast" door, would I not be improving the supporting cast for whoever would replace Mayfield in 2023 ?
Kirk had his best season in Stefanski's only year as the Vikings OC. In fact I would have to say Cousins played the QB position exactly how Stefanski wants it played: 69.1% comp pct, 26 TDs, 6 INTs, 107.4 QB rating . Game management 101. I don't think that's accurate. I guarantee he wants him to complete more passes. A 61.6% in that QB friendly offense is not good enough. We know how accurate he is. We know he struggles when asked to play from behind. We know his worst quarter is the 4th quarter. We've watched that for 4 years.
I'm talking about your list of things that you believe would both improve Baker and the roster. Do you have a hierarchy for the bullet points you listed, or are they in order?
Oh, no doubt you will. My only suggestion is that you practice chucking the empty bottles. @manosteel9423 is a shifty target.
Ok, so from the viewpoint of improving the team - Are your bullet points listed in your preferred order of importance?
You argue debate like my wife. I think they're all important but, if you insist I prioritize them . . . improve the 3rd down defensive efficiency & lower the red zone/scoring stats adding a true WR1 upgrading the RT and/or O-line depth having three TE's that can block and catch upgrading WR2, [improving the WR room in general] How and when I would address them would be dependent on who's actually (and realistically) available, how the draft unfolds, cap ramifications (short and long term) - all the usual shit.
The 4th Q numbers for Baker are what worry me most. It seems like the greater the pressure the situation the less capable he performs. I remember the Cinci come back last year when he hit DPJ, and I want more. Does he have more in him? I want to believe he does, but I'd sure like to have more evidence. This season Baker looked terrible with the game on the line, and there are plenty of peripheral reasons we can point to, but we didn't get it done enough. Is it because Baker just isn't that good? I want to believe otherwise, and cling to the 2020 second half as proof he can. It's prove it time, whether he likes it or not. The "chip on his shoulder" routine is getting old. He's gotta grow beyond that and be the professional QB some of us think he can be. His worst moment came after the win in Detroit (I think) when he waked off and didn't celebrate with "his guys", then pouted, and wouldn't talk with the media. Bad move that I suspect many of his teamates thought was selfish, as did I.
LOL We’re debating? Just looking for an opinion, more so to see how it rolls with/against mine in an effort to see if it changes my view or gives me a glimpse into something I may have missed or passed over, so thank you for indulging my questions. There’s no right or wrong on the subject, just opinion and preference.
You said Top 5 QB. You didn't say Top 5 passer. Even then you'd be wrong but that's not what you said and honestly today's in NFL that would be a bad argument anyway, because there is more to playing the QB position than being a passer. It's not misleading. I excluded 4 games where Kirk came in relief and threw a total of 46 passes. Misleading is comparing starts to games in which someone barely played like you did with Lamar Jackson. Jackson threw a total of 12 passes in his first 9 games of his rookie season. And you compared them to Baker's first 9 games where he threw the ball 299 times in 9 games. Who's misleading people? Cousins and Baker get closer when you include games when Cousins was a backup. Okay, if that's "objective" you got me. Cousins still exceeds Baker in every statistical category and nobody on the planet has Kirk Cousins in their Top Five QBs. You want to talk about variables? Find me a QB who has played behind a better o-line than Mayfield has in his career? TD "percentage" means nothing but you miscalculated Allen's. Mayfield's rating lags because he's inaccurate. We have 4 years worth of data (plus our eyeballs). In his best season he completed 62.8% of his passes. And he did so in the most QB friendly system in the NFL. Often throwing out of play action, often throwing to backs and tight ends, facing considerably less pressure than his peers. He should be at least 5 points better but he misses a lot of really easy throws.
And for the record that's as far as I'm going down the stats rabbit hole. I don't know anyone else alive, and I know a number of Browns fans that thinks Baker is anywhere close to Top 5.
I have said this as well.. Cousins has a very different stat line from 2019, his only year with Stefanski. I showed this in one of the threads. Cousins stat line was just like Baker's in that one season in Stefanski's system.
I think there's a lot of truth in here, @Willie. When Kevin Stefanski took over the Cleveland job, the team was reeling from failing to live up to (probably over-hyped) expectations for themselves. They had exceeded expectations with Mayfield playing very good football as a rookie, despite the chaos in the coaching and front office around him. You had the GM retain a puppet head coach who was a great guy but was way over his head and that shown through in the season. Mayfield regressed greatly in his second season and mechanics and decision-making took big steps backwards. The offensive line was a mess and Baker wasn't trusting what he was seeing. Stefanksi was brought in not just to fix the team, but to fix Baker. He had to re-work the decision-making, the reading of defenses, the feel in the pocket, etc. With the style of offense and approach he runs, this seemed like a very good pairing. Mayfield struggled early in 2020 but finished strong, posting Top 5 QB numbers over the second half of 2020 and leading the Browns to an 11-5 record, win in the post-season, and build-up of expectations again in 2021. After a step foward, it was two steps back with the team -- and Baker -- once again regressing. In hindsight, it's clear he should have been shutdown after Arizona but a neophyte coaching staff struggling to meet the expectations set for themselves bet on the QB who was obviously not going to take himself out of the game and it backfired. Mayfield regressed, the offense was predicatable and stuck in neutral, and despite the asertion that this team was 'built to win, regardless of a QB', we did not. In 2022, Stefanski and AVP are going to have to not only fix their offensive approach but also Baker (again). His development has been stunted by the consistent inconsistency around the franchise and that's likely why someone like Andrew Berry is cagey with his responses to plans beyond 2023. Will Baker be here? Not if he doesn't improve dramatically from 2021. I'm confident he can get there - his numbers from mid-2020 when he got comfortable with Stefanksi's offense until the Arizona game when the wheels came off from injury: 65.1 comp. %, 246.4 YPG, 8.1 YPA, 4.2 TD%, 1.0 INT%, 100.6 QB rating. I think this has to be considered the baseline for 2022. Once we get him back to the baseline, then we can talk about the ceiling of what he can and cannot do.
Yeah well, you probably didn't even realize that Cody Kessler was a top 5 NFL QB when he was here. nuff said....Just don't worry about the Browns QB situation. We know what we're doin.
Stefanksi's offense is safe and conservative. Again, 2021 robbed us of a season of progression for both players and coaches. We needed Stefanski and his offense to be safe to help correct Baker from the 2019 trauma. And it worked! We needed Stefanski to mature in 2021 and grow that offense - he didn't and at the same time, Baker got injured to such a degree that it held back himself and the team. So we reverted to an even more conservative approach. And our defense didn't come into its own until about Week 9-10 which, by that time, was too late for the season. Unfortunately, we will need the stability of that safe/conservative offense as we rehabilitate Baker from the 2021 trauma, but we'll also need to accelerate not only his - but Stefanksi's - growth in 2022.
