MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK

@xinik , I was just wondering if you were around to comment on what you believe the Giants are going to do in regards to Daniel Jones?

 

Alright so I have thoughts lol.

I think what I think *should* happen what I think *will* happen are different. The Giants during the Gettleman era have been nothing but a massive sink hole of frustration for me and Jones has been the perfect signal caller for this window of time...

I think the Giants are going to use the 5th year option and go into next year with Jones as the undisputed starter. I think they want to punt any decision another year. Giants have had scouts at Liberty, Pitt, and the Ole Miss vs. UNC game so they are watching the QB's from this class. But the entire organization loves and believes in Jones. And with the Giants there a lot of other factors at play...

I think Mara felt like his "patience" with Eli paid off. Eli flashed early but was maddeningly inconsistent through his first three seasons. (Actually that was sort of his entire career...) I think Mara is sitting in his office remembering fondly how he gave Eli that fourth season only to win a super bowl. (As a Giants fan I can assure you Eli was MUCH more advanced in year three than Jones -- Eli was also just so very much Eli...) I think the entire organization believes that Jones can take that step and want to give him the chance to prove them right.

But the Giants also *need* to make major changes. Gettleman has to go. He's 70 years old and his original contract expires at the end of this season. The Giants 1) don't typically talk about front office contracts and the fact that Gettleman's contract expires at the end of the year has been talked about by people associated with the team indicates thay are setting up him being gone. 2) They don't typically allow personnel they intend to keep have lame duck seasons. So I think both things are pointing at Gettleman "retiring" this offseason. I think the Giants also need to get with the damn times in other ways as well. John Mara hires the GM AND the Head Coach. And they both report directly to him. That crap needs to end. Mara won't want that to end though because as much as he believes in Jones he reportedly believes in Joe Judge even more. Mara loves Jason Garrett like a son but he is holding the offense back and limiting what we can actually learn about Jones by calling plays scared and conservative. (Conservatism he shares with Joe Judge...)

So what happens with the front office will matter a LOT. If Mara steps back and hires an outside GM and lets him do the job all bets are off. I think the Giants severely overvalue their own players - including Jones. An outside GM who is allowed to control the roster and decide who the coach is could shake things up significantly. (The Giants have 2 Mara family members (Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell) in key front office personnel roles -- they really need to be shit canned.) That could change the organizational approach to Jones and Barkley and all bets are off. The more likely scenario? The Giants hire a GM with history with Joe Judge, keep Judge as HC, keep Jones with no threat to his starter status, and replace Jason Garrett - probably with Freddie Kitchens... I keep eyeing Monti Ossenfort as the likely guy. He overlapped with Judge in NE and has helped assembled this Titans team that feels like exactly the kind of team Joe Judge wants to be.

Me? I think Jones is what he is at this point. His ceiling is Ryan Tannehill. (See how this ties in to who I think the GM will be...) He's a pretty average QB but who can maybe be in the conversation as a fringe "top 10" guy if he is in the right system and doesn't have to be the focal point of the offense. (I hate that he has to play in Garrett's system...) Is that worth it? Is that a guy you want to commit to? I think plenty of GM's and teams would be willing to. I think the Giants want to commit to him. I also believe the Giants screwed the pooch on the rookie contract window and that Jones isn't special. I fully believe that you should pursue special at the QB spot and not settle for average. I'll be scouting QB's again this offseason and see if I like any of these kids better than Jones. You can't force the issue if you don't see "special" but you also can't pass on "special" when it falls into your lap because you have Joe Flacco or Kirk Cousins. And I think that's what the Giants have.

 

I was thinking they (the system) may have the ol' 'ball-n-chain' on Jones and are basically making him be conservative. Who knows, under the right system, he could be 'special'.

If the Giants, who have the 8th and 9th over-all pick in 22 adress the o-line, which I think they will/should, that could go a long way in passer protection and the run game. If Daniel Jones has the right weapons and leadership around him, "average/conservative" could quickly flip-flop and things could be stellar in NY, but thats the key... prpoer leadership from above and the right personal to fit the over-all scheme of things.

I personally think Jones is good, but he needs pieces around him that can stay healthy and execute.

 

Good stuff.

I wonder if you would consider the Packers for this list as Rodgers is unpredictable and Love hasnt looked real good either?

 

100% - they have coached him to be conservative, protect the football and live to fight another down. I think Judge and Garrett want him to not turn over the football more than they want him to score points. Garrett's offense is bad in general. The route concepts are pathetic. He doesn't scheme players into space, he is forcing Jones to fit the ball into contested areas, and matriculate the ball downfield 3 yards at a time. The offense basically only requires perfect execution for 12 consecutive plays to get them into the red zone so he can call 2 runs up the guy and a corner fade and settle for a field goal. It's laughably bad. Hard to imagine Jones would be WORSE in an actual NFL offense. I listen to a bunch of different Giants podcasts. One of my favorite does an all-22 deep dive on offense and defense every week. They have the blame as 65% Garrett's offense and 35% Jones limitations. Jones absolutely does have limitations. The only thing he really does at a high level is his ball fake... everything else is just "good."

This is basically my argument. He's good, not great. Give him time and he can make plays. Give him a strong run game and he will use his ball skills to get a safety to bite and throw the deep ball. The Giants have a lot of problems. Jones play isn't one of the top 2 or 3. But I also don't think he is going elevate anyone. I think he will mostly be a guy you can win with, but not a guy who is going to be the reason you win. He will sometimes be the reason you lose -- but those games seem to be reducing in frequency but, and this is a BIG but, he is currently 0 - 7 in prime time games. And he seems to make his most laughably bad plays when the lights are the brightest. That worries the hell out of me. If he plays his worst when the lights are brightest as has been the case thus far in his career... that's a problem.

 

That's a good question, Will.

Yeah, I definitely could have included him in this list. His deal makes it easy for the Packers to either let him walk or trade him, and Love is raw talent that doesn't seem to have the ability to put it together at the pro level.

The only reason I didn't is that winning tends to cure ails, and the Packers have enough talent to continue winning down the stretch. Aaron may still want out but I'm not sure he's going to find a better situation out of that list of teams I put up to win a Super bowl.

 

Lots to absorb up there ^^^^^.

1. Browns / Mayfield: I don't think its an "either/or" situation. Andrew Berry could very well decide to stay with Mayfield in 2022 on his 5th year option ($18.5M) and then get serious about a second contract based on his development (or lack thereof) at any time before Mayfield's contract expires. IF they attempt to trade him, what veteran would be available that's any better? Draft pick(s)? See point # 8.
2. Texans / Watson: There's no way in hell that Watson will ever be under center in Houston again. Miami appears to be the consensus trade partner. That would (almost) require Tua to be part of any potential trade. But any GM would need to have stones of kryptonite to pull the trigger on trading for Watson before his legal issues are resolved.
3. Lions / Goff: It should be crystal clear by now that the Rams made a huge mistake by drafting Goff in the 1st place. Then the Lions doubled down and traded away Stafford for him. The Lions will most likely be in a favorable draft position, but see point # 8.
4. Giants / Jones: Similar to the Browns except the Giants have yet to exercise Jone's 5th year option.
5. Steelers / Roethlisberger: Clearly Ben's best days are in the rear view mirror. Kevin Colbert needs to do what's best (long term) for the Steelers franchise regardless of Ben's wishes to continue playing. They already have two potential heirs apparent on the roster (Rudolph and Haskins) but, IMHO, neither of these guys are the short or long term answer. That brings us to the draft. See point # 8.
6. Buccaneers / Brady: Brady continues to play at a very high level. As long he can continue to do so, I don't see him hanging it up.
7. Redskins, Saints & Broncos: They're fucked. See Point # 8.
8. Admittedly, I haven't had the opportunity to watch much college football. But, this year's draft class doesn't appear to be loaded with "can't miss" Quarterbacks. Those QB needy teams looking to move up in the draft better reserve a brinks truck now as the price for the 1st or 2nd pick will be more than a king's ransom.

 

We can start from the point that the only teams you really disagree on having potential passer issues for next season would be the Browns and the Bucs.

At some point, the cart is going to be forced in front of the horse. Baker very well could play through his 5th year option or his agent could advise his client to not take the field until a new, long term deal has been reached. The longer the Browns wait to make the decision the more difficult the situation will get. If Baker continues to show reasons for caution when it comes to making him the franchise quarterback then the value on his return is diminished which pushes him back towards being the only option the Browns have, removing the potential for a quality return and forcing them to acquiesce to a deal that may not be favorable.

The best option would be for Cleveland to make that decision prior to going into the 2022 regular season. Anything other than signing Baker long term is going to require a huge set of balls pulling the trigger.

I think the Browns are careening towards a potentially ugly situation that needs to have a decision made this off-season, and I'm not confident the right decision will be made.

Which is probably the case, but Brady is uncharted waters when it comes to age and productivity at his position.

I have the Bucs on the list because the potential for Tom to retire at the end of this season remains a realistic possibility.

There's a couple guys in there that I like but I'm seeing this quarterback class as one similar to the Winston/Mariota draft at the moment.

That creates even more uncertainty for teams that will be looking to improve the position this off-season.

The GM and head coach don't want Watson, the owner does, so Miami is probably going to find a way to fuck it up before it's all said and done with. I like the combination of Grier and Flores to rebuild the Dolphins into a legit contender in the East, but I'm not convinced that ownership will get out of the way long enough for it to happen.

Trading for Watson would be the end of any growth in Florida.

The Lions will have the enviable position of having a veteran quarterback to trot out week 1 while the newly drafted quarterback (if they go that route) can sit and become acclimated to the NFL week.

Goff will likely get another run on another roster after he leaves Detroit, but that's simply causation from the lack of arms around the league.

Which is why I see those teams in a similar light when it comes to making decisions on the passer. Jones should not be in consideration for a long term contract. Baker is on the fringe of consideration. The difference is that the Browns have won at a good enough clip to justify Baker getting a deal, which makes the situation more difficult for the Cleveland's front office then it does for New York's.

The Steelers likely signed Rudolph to that one year extension for two reasons:

1. To ensure a consistent back up plan for Ben
2. To make sure they have a bridge passer at a bargain while deciding on Matt Canada and the future of the offense

Dwayne Haskins will have a shot to beat out Rudolph next off-season (assuming Ben does not return) and the Steelers will get an informed look of both players to make a decision on whether or not one or the other can be the starter for more than 2022.

Pittsburgh is probably drafting a passer in 2023. How high will depend on what Rudolph/Haskins can do as the starter.

They were the easiest teams to put on the list. lol

 

I am so curious to see if Haskins can actually play QB in the NFL or not at this point... I really liked the kid coming out of Ohio State but he clearly had a ton of issues that were not related to his ability on the football field. Has he actually moved beyond some of that enough to actually, you know, focus on being a good football player or did he just get that rookie draft pick money and will coast for the rest of his life?

 

I don't disagree at all. The fact is (favorable or not) the Browns do have a starting QB under contract for next year and there's no doubt in my mind that that starting QB will be Baker Mayfield. The real question is who that QB will be in 2023 and beyond.

If you recall, prior to the 2018 draft (the Browns had two top five picks that year) I had four QB's rated just about the same. Baker went #1 overall, Darnold went #3 and the next one wasn't drafted until Josh Allen at #7. Then Josh Rosen at #10 followed by Lamar Jackson at #32. Hindsight is 20/20 so it's easy now to say that Josh Allen should have been the pick (nobody but Ozzie Newsome saw what Lamar Jackson brought to the game). But he wasn't. For whatever reason, John Dorsey picked Mayfield.

Mayfield has had his moments. But he's inconsistent as hell. Early on everybody blamed coaching, lack of surrounding talent, OBJ, blah, blah, blah. The way I see it, Mayfield has a little more than a season to put up or shut up.

 

Kevin Stefanski: Baker Mayfield day-to-day with knee injury



Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield had to exit Sunday’s blowout loss to the Patriots in the second half, but apparently could have returned to the game if it hadn’t been decided.

It doesn’t seem like Mayfield is dealing with anything too serious based on head coach Kevin Stefanski’s comments in his Monday press conference.


“Baker is day-to-day with his knee, but feeling good about where he is this morning,” Stefanski said, via sports radio 92.3 The Fan.

Stefanski added that the Browns have ruled out ligament injury to Mayfield’s knee.

Mayfield left the contest midway through the third quarter after edge rusher Matthew Judon put a hard hit on him. He was able to make it to the medical tent under his own power.

Backup QB Case Keenum finished the contest for Cleveland.

After a strong, two-touchdown performance against Cincinnati in Week Nine, Mayfield played poorly on Sunday. He completed just 11-of-21 passes for 73 yards with a touchdown and an interception.

In nine games this year, Mayfield has completed 65.4 percent of his throws for 1,990 yards with nine TDs and four picks.

The Browns play the Lions in Week 11.

PFT

 

I hope the Browns pay him a lot of money and they guarantee a significant portion to keep him around for a long time. It's been at least 5 minutes since I said, "I told you to draft Josh Allen" - so here's another.

I think this is dead on but I think the way they have approached the QB position in the last 2 years is worthy of criticism:

1) Ben lacks ability above the neck. He's never been an X's and O's guy. He's never been a great decision maker. He's never understood the concept of down and distance. Ben's strength was his unreal physical talent that has been in obvious decline for years. The heavy hand approach they took this off-season with his contract was one they should have taken prior to the 2019 season. That extension was asinine in every way.

2) Mason has been on the team for four seasons. What have they been watching? There have been numerous bargain guys floating around the NFL that would give the Steelers a better chance to win then the people they've put behind Ben.

3) They've had opportunities to move up in the 1st round and grab a replacement for Ben. If you can move up to #10 for a LB you can do it for a QB. If you can trade a 1st round pick for a safety you can trade one to move up for a QB. Justin Fields and Mac Jones both went between 10 and 15 this year. I love Najee. But he's going to have a tough time if they don't find a QB.

 

I think that the plan (thinking from Colbert here) has always been to utilize Mason as the bridge. Whether or not he developed into the full time starter is something that they were willing to simply let play out. If he turns out to be the guy it's a win, if he doesn't then you simply roll with a cheap passer until you have your defensive contracts settled for the long term. This gives the opportunity to draft a passer and not pay him for a few seasons while your defensive contracts (and various offensive skill/line players) drift into more manageable terms.

If that's not the strategy then I'm going to be surprised, but only because it's how I would deal with their current situation as it is influenced by a strong roster and a cap that was stalled for a season.

I also see some other things that I think they handled incorrectly from the time they drafted Rudolph. I believe Colbert was sincere in his comments about his evaluation of Mason. He likely did see him as one of the quarterbacks in the mix with the players that went ahead of him, but they didn't do anything to support that decision after drafting him. There was no quarterback coach and, in what looked like a move to appease a franchise quarterback with a bruised ego, they dressed Dobbs over him his rookie year. That's a full season of more meaningful lost practice reps.

After that, the hit from Thomas and the head injury put the brakes on the chance for him to grow into the position when the opportunity presented itself. Add on the thing with Garrett and the guy had the kind of season that some players, possibly himself included, might never mentally recover from. The brain injury itself had the potential to end his career.

I'll take some shit for it, but I still see a player that can direct an offense efficiently at a level that can win games. Whether or not he can be a difference maker with his arm when needed is something that I haven't seen enough of. To be a franchise passer in the NFL you have to be able to make things happen with your arm when called on.

He made the necessary throws in overtime to potentially position the Steelers for a game winning field goal twice, but the missed pass to McCloud on the goal line probably cost his team the game.

 

I agree. Honestly, the only thing Baker is doing right now is making the Browns look smart for not rushing to sign him too a lucrative long term deal.

 

Mac Jones on pace to break Dak Prescott’s rookie record for completion percentage



In 2016, Cowboys quarterback Dak Prescott completed 67.76 percent of his passes, the best mark in NFL history for a rookie. In 2021, Mac Jones is poised to break that record.

Jones has completed 69.04 percent of his passes this season, putting him comfortably on pace to break Prescott’s rookie record.


Jones had his best completion percentage in a game yet in Sunday’s win over the Browns, completing 19 of 23 passes for an 82.61 percent completion rate.

Although Jones was the last of the five first-round quarterbacks drafted this year, he was regarded by many as the most NFL-ready of the group. He has proven that correct with his strong play in a season when the other rookie quarterbacks have struggled.

PFT

 

As least you acknowledge the frequency.

 

Dolphins Coach Brian Flores Names Tua Tagovailoa Starter Vs. Jets

Dolphins coach Brian Flores has named Tua Tagovailoa as the team's starting quarterback for its game against the Jets in Week 11.

Tagovailoa did not start Thursday night's 22–10 win over the Ravens but did finish the game after quarterback Jacoby Brissett went down with a knee injury.

The second-year quarterback had been dealing with a fracture in his throwing hand. He completed eight of 13 passes for 158 and added a one-yard rushing touchdown.

"I thought Tua did a good job of fighting through the discomfort," Flores said last Thursday. "He banged his finger too during the game, too, which is what we were trying to avoid. So I think this situation with Tua, obviously I've said many times, he's our quarterback.

Flores added Monday that Tagovailoa has had time to rest the discomfort in his hand.

Tagovailoa has thrown for just under 2,000 yards this season, tossing seven touchdowns and five interceptions.

After a 1–7 start to the year, Miami has won two straight games.

Kickoff this Sunday against the Jets, who are 2–7, is set for 1 p.m. ET.

SI

 

Nick Sirianni: I just see Jalen Hurts’ arrow completely pointed up



Led by a strong rushing attack, the Eagles have won two of their last three games to improve to 4-6.

While his passing numbers haven’t set the world on fire, quarterback Jalen Hurts has been in the thick of the surge. He’s completed 67 percent of his passes for 443 yards with three touchdowns and one interception in Philadelphia’s last three games. And he’s tallied 31 carries for 186 yards.


In his Monday press conference, head coach Nick Sirianni touted Hurts’ progress.

“I just see his arrow completely pointed up,” Sirianni said, via Reuben Frank of NBCSportsPhiladelphia.com. “I think we’ve all seen the way he’s played.”

Sirianni noted the improvement the team has made as a whole over the last three games, and that Hurts has been at the center of it. The head coach also pointed out that Hurts has started just 14 games, and saying effectively he’s still a rookie.

“So all I see is improvement every day from him,” Sirianni said. “It starts with the type of person that Jalen is and how much he loves this sport and how much he loves his teammates and how tough he is. And he doesn’t make the same mistake twice.”

Questions remain as to whether or not Hurts is the team’s quarterback of the future. But Sirianni isn’t thinking past the present.

“My job here and Jalen’s job is to not focus on franchise quarterback moving forward,” Sirianni said. “It’s about, ‘What can we do today to get us ready for Sunday and what can we do tomorrow to get us ready for Sunday.’

“I say this every week, but my message isn’t going to change: ‘What can we do today to get ready for the next game?’ So, I think that’s Jalen’s mindset, that’s my mindset (and that’s) how we’re going to keep getting better each week. And the rest will take care of itself.”

While they’re still two games below .500, the Eagles are still firmly in the mix for an NFC playoff spot. Philadelphia could further its status as a contender with a victory over New Orleans in Week 11.

PFT

 

Report: Jared Goff’s oblique injury has his status for Week 11 in question



Lions coach Dan Campbell said Monday he wasn’t changing his starting quarterback, sticking with Jared Goff despite his struggles. Now comes word, though, that the Lions might have to start David Blough out of necessity in Week 11.

Goff has an oblique injury that could keep him out Sunday against the Browns, Tom Pelissero of NFL Media reports.


The coaching staff wants to see Goff in Wednesday’s practice to determine whether he can use his core muscles before deciding anything, according to Pelissero.

The Lions, of course, have a quick turnaround after Sunday, playing a Thanksgiving Day game against the Bears.

In his first season with the Lions, Goff has completed 66.1 percent of his passes for 2,109 yards with eight touchdowns and six interceptions. He’s also fumbled seven times, losing four.

PFT

 

I really want to back up this point being made. Revisionism always seeps into these type of discussions, but if you're gonna do accurate analysis then revisionism cant be part of the process. There's what we know now and what was known then and they're very different things. Its why i have never once ripped the Bears for not drafting Mahomes in 2017. Watson? Abso-fucking-lutely. But Mahomes, no, because Mahomes was never going in the first 2-3picks in that draft, he just wasnt. If people want to discuss the whys of that we can but i think you know them...

There were 4 QBs for the Browns to choose from, Lamar is completely irrelevant to this. Rosen was never going #1, zero. And as high as we all might be on Allen now, he was considered as massive boom or bust pick at the time. He was a project that needed a lot of development. Our Steelers friend can wave a called it as much as he likes(congrats btw), but my humble opinion at the time, and now frankly, Josh Allen is not a pick you make at #1. Or at least, its an extremely hard pick to make. You need more certainty than that picking at #1. If they'd picked Allen there would've been uproar.

Which leaves you with Mayfield and Darnold. Mayfield was the safe pick, that was the consensus, i understood it even if i didnt like the pick much. Personally i thought Darnold should go #1, and yes that doesnt look good now, but i do have to wonder what Darnold would've done on the Browns. Especially if he could've survived that first couple years of shitty coaching. The single biggest problem Darnold has now is he's gun shy. If that wasn't apparent by the time he left the Jets it should be now. But the biggest single strength of the Browns is their O-Line.

There's a part of me that thinks Darnold maybe could've made it in Cleveland. Its a whole separate discussion of course Mayfield v Darnold. Mayfield brought with him a demeanor Cleveland may have needed, one Darnold doesnt have. They've actually thrown a similar number of picks in their careers. But to bring it back to the topic at hand, there was no clear cut standout choice for the Browns that year as there have been the last 2. It was maybe a little unfortunate in that sense.