On to Cinncinati.....

Discussion in 'Cleveland Browns' started by kenibals, Nov 4, 2021.

  1. kenibals Home Town Favorite Browns

    Wow!
    The deadline comes and goes, and Odell makes a play for freedom from Browntown.

    Just what we needed, with our second divisional opponent days off. Thanks Odell

    One thing I've been meaning to get off my chest: if we have the best running game in the business, wouldn't a downfield passing game best compliment that strength?

    I just don't get the dink, dunk BS, coupled with the best running attack. It shrinks the field for your opponent's D

    Am I crazy? Don't answer that. Is it lack of confidence in Baker, simply the Stephanski way, what????
     
    IrishDawg42 and SAS like this.
  2. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    It's going to do one of two things and we should know in short order which it is.
    1. The team will be at best divided and it will ruin the entire season, at which point we will basically be starting over from a player personnel persepctive
    2. This is the gel that tells them all that there is one way or the highway and they will win with or without you and the season is saved.

    a) I don't think you are crazy... well at least on THIS point
    b) If you watch the All-22 film, there are very few plays designed to stretch the field. /only going through the first half, this is the what they did with at least (1) receiver running a pattern 15 yards or more
    • first drive (1) receiver ran 20 yard pattern, incomplete underneath. deep was covered.
    • second drive, one play (1) receiver had a 20 yard out, (1) receiver had a 30 yard out, hit the 20 yard receiver for a first down. another play (1) receiver ran a 15 yard pattern, complete underneath. (4th and 1, complete for a first, but fumbled on the play)
    • third drive, one play (1) receiver ran a 25 yard pattern, ball thrown to him, but dropped. second play (1) receiver 20 yards down field, incomplete underneath
    • 4th drive ZERO patterns run 15+ yards
    • 5th drive 1st down (3) receivers ran 30 yards patterns, holding on the play. (on 3rd and 15 ran a draw)
    On 5 drives, we called 6 plays with at least one receiver running a 15+ yard pattern.

    We can't blame the QB if a) the scheme doesn't have plays with receives downfield and b) when we do send multiple receivers downfield we can't hold blocks long enough for one to get open without holding.

    Stefanski's offense in the past has been TE heavy, this version is not for whatever reason. I think we need help on the line as it seems we have more and more TEs staying in to help in protection.



    For what it's worth, Pittsburgh actually ran even less 15+ patterns in the first half. I don't know if it was an aberration or not, but they don't spread the field either.

    Watching the Chiefs the other night, their O-line is so bad, nearly every play is set for a 2 step drop and throw. Their offense is a fraction of what it was in the past.

    We need to shore up the pass protection over the bye week. I have always put a lot of faith in Bill Callahan, maybe it's injuries, not sure, but these guys are not holding their blocks very long. If you can't hold blocks, you can't spread the field.
     
    TopDawg likes this.
  3. TopDawg Legend

    This is a pivotal point for the Cleveland Browns season. Is the team going to allow OBJ to divide it, or are the Browns going to regroup without him and take care of business in Cincinnati? It wouldn't be the first time that a disgruntled high profile player derailed a season. Surely there are players in the lockerroom that love O'dell and are siding with him already, which is why I think it's imperative for Cleveland to just get him out. This is a major distraction, and it couldn't be coming to a head at a worse time. If we gotta pay Beckham to stay away, than do it. This is exactly the kind of situation we do not need. Even if a trade offer didn't make perfect sense, AB probably should have pulled the trigger anyway, if he actually had any offers. Addition by subtraction....

    A big win this Sunday, minus OBJ, could galvanize the team...On the flip side, an ugly loss with another bad offensive performance, will likely signal a long 2nd half to the Browns season....
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  4. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    This is something that worries me (and worried me when we traded for OBJ). Landry is such a team leader, yet OBJ is one of his best friends. This seemed to be effecting OBJ earlier than this week... was it already effecting Jarvis as well? He has had two underperforming games, with drops and mental errors we didn't see in the past from him. Will it get better, will it get worse.

    Cincy will be telling for sure.
     
    TopDawg likes this.
  5. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    At the time, he probably thought we were still better off WITH him in the lineup. The fact he didn't get his way made things 100 times worse and by then it was too late.
     
    TopDawg likes this.
  6. kenibals Home Town Favorite Browns

    OBJ was a weapon when he arrived. He simply isn't anymore. Whether that's due to dwindling skills or the Stephanski O, or Baker's oversized ego, he is no longer a threat, and his value in stretching the field to open things up is gone. So from a football point of view, he doesn't offer much to this team.; I think the cause is arguable, but none the less, he's not contributing.

    Now he's pissed, and maybe I can see that too. Watching the last couple of games where he dropped or at a minimun failed to give his all to bring down a catch, it's clear he now considers his well being before the team. I can accept that he feels "mis used", but to not play with all his heart is poison.

    I can't see a way for him to stay other than a closed door meeting with AB, Steph, AVP and Baker, to bare his soul, apologize for creating this distraction, and some kind of honest discussion about what his role, with his skillset should be, and everyone taking a hard look at how each of then has earned a piece of this ugly result. Then a locker room version, asking for the team's forgiveness, and his vow to give it all up for his team mates.

    Fantasy! Not going to happen. He's toast in Cleveland. I just don't see it any other way
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  7. kenibals Home Town Favorite Browns

    Organizationally this by far our Coach's and our GM's greatest test. Irish is right, this may already be affecting Jarvis, and while he's been besties with OBJ for years, he can' t be the only one who at least sympathizes with what OBJ is pointing out. Winning masks any open questioning of coaching strategy, but losing, especially with the level of talent we have invites questions. How will they handle this?

    One thing I've noticed over the years: when teams are doing poorly, injuries seem to multiply.
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  8. kenibals Home Town Favorite Browns

    One last thing. What top tier WR would want to come and play in this O, if we can't even make our #1 WR average?
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  9. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    Answer: Do we NEED a top tier WR in this offense? (edit:) I guess that's really another question, not an answer..

    I think we need 6 role players.. (2) speedsters, (2) possession and (2) slot guys, who all know their role and can perfect the small part of the offense they need to perfect.

    TEs MUST become more of a prominent role in this. Getting/recognizing the mis-match will play a pivotable role in bringing a 6-2 defense to it's knees. Njoku really should be the star of this offense, but he has a ridiculous amount of injuries he deals with. Nothing big, but little things that have kept him from practice and games.
     
  10. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    [​IMG]
    Stefanski seems to have lost confidence in himself. As many other folks have noted - the team is built to create an early lead, use play-action to keep scoring (if they need to), but lean heavily on the running game to milk clock and keep teams off the field.

    The offense has not found a rythym in the passing game and the defense has been a seive, especially on third-and-fourth downs. Lastly, our stud running backs have been banged up and unable to produce much offense there. It's a mutli-stage failure on the offense and we don't have the defense (or rather, defensive coordinator) to play tight football games.

    In several games this season, Stefanski has still shown his inexperience by very quickly abandoning the run game or turning to the pass too often, and often without rollouts or play-action.
     
    TopDawg and IrishDawg42 like this.
  11. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    I think he is avoiding rollouts and play action to keep Baker in the pocket, which should be max protection for his shoulder... This team isn't really built for that, they prepared for something totally different.
     
    TopDawg and SAS like this.
  12. Lyman "Franchise Asshole" Browns Buckeyes

    If Stefanski is avoiding rollouts to keep Mayfield in the pocket, then I'm not so certain that having Mayfield stay put in the pocket is the best plan. If the rush defenders know where Mayfield is going to be then they don't have to think about how they're going to get there. However, if there's a 50/50 chance he's going to roll out, then they have to read the block and then react. That adds precious milliseconds to the time Mayfield has to get the ball out.
     
    SAS likes this.
  13. Jeanquev Legend Steelers

    There are plenty of coaches who have been around the block ahwile that abandon the run to quick too. I think part of it is because the rules of the game are set up to favor the passing attack.
     
  14. kenibals Home Town Favorite Browns

    SAS I agree that we've lost confidence on offense. I guess my gut is telling me that the Stephanski philosophy has contributed to that loss of confidence.

    What I mean is that Coach overemphasizes "don't make a mistake". It feels like we play offense as if we are afraid of making a mistake. Focussing on mistakes, plants seeds of doubt, and makes every decision one where the player has to keep the mantra of "don't make a mistake" in mind, and that miminmizes aggressoin, IMO.

    Discipline is important, especially on the pre snap stuff, which we are not good with, but as far as playing with aggression and looking for the oppty, we seem to be holding back, avoiding risk. Risk / Reward equation is out of whack IMO. It feels like Baker is always double clutching, and I think it may be in part, because it's been drilled into him to not make a mistake, so much he's not trusting what his instincts tell him. He's never going to be Tom Brady. What he brings to the table is aggression, and if that's not what you want, he's not your guy, but he can't be his best version of himself without aggression. Baker wants it on his shoulders, probably too much, but it's what he's built to do.

    Playing "not to lose" isn't the same as playing to win. Looking for opportunities isn't reckless, but it isn't scared either. Do you want your team to pursue vistory or avoid mistakes?

    Frankly watching my team pull in their horns with a lead, may be smart, but also maybe not. One thing I do know, is it's not much fun to watch. Coach can be so aggressive when deciding to go for it on fourth down, but doesn't seem to be have figured out how to be aggressive with the play call.

    Coach has to learn to inspire his team with some creative aggression in his play calling that doesn't always place "risk of failure" at the top of the priority list.
     
    SAS likes this.
  15. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Browns are set to release Odell later today. All I can say is, about time.

    Huge miss by this F/O, who's not immune to criticism. Especially in the wake of Mary Kay Clickbait's reporting this morning that Odell, or his reps, had requested a trade in the preseason. If the coaches and F/O thought they couldn't get the value or could make this work, it was never more clear that he's sabotaged the season as a result of the inaction.

    On the bright side, the team can galvanize around this and beat the brakes of Cincinnati this weekend. Baker thrives off criticism and perceived slights. Plus, there's this:

    Odell has never been a fit here and with his dismissal, Baker and the offense should see a big uptick from this addition by substraction.
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  16. Lyman "Franchise Asshole" Browns Buckeyes

    bye bye odell.jpg
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  17. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    I don’t think the team is better because of this move. The roster is worse for this move. The team is BETTER OFF due to the lack of effort put forth by OBJ because he didn’t want to be here. Sad part is, he can go wherever he wants now and give better effort for his new team.

    Anyone that ever wants to argue the teams can hold a player hostage, here is yet another example of how the good players hold the teams hostage.

    The Browns can definitely become a better team by allowing a player on the field that wants to give a professional 100% effort.
     
    Willie likes this.
  18. TopDawg Legend

    [​IMG]
     
  19. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers


    People can choose their sides in the "Baker Wars" if they want, but nothing speaks to Odell being a problem quite like this exchange.
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  20. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    ^^^^

    Odell, jealous of his teammates' success: "I want to score a touchdown."

    Nick Chubb: "I want to win."
     
    IrishDawg42 and Willie like this.

Share This Page