Looking Forward to the 2021 AFC North

I believe so, too. I also have been consistent as a pro-Harris guy (and obviously hate that the was drafted by the Steelers). I also have said that despite enjoying the narrative, I'm not buying the Steelers as DOA this year, even if it does end up being Ben's last. To wit:

 

Maybe this will refresh your memory;



That ^^^^^ is his entire career.

 

Maybe this will refresh your memory;



That ^^^^^ is his entire career.

 

Adding to how impressive Baker is and how he's poised for a ridiculous season...

These grades look really solid and this is his first year in the offense -- that he didn't have an offseason to learn or a training camp and preseason to practice in. And with weapons that are routinely disrespected amongst NFL circles. Very few people are out there talking about how elite the Browns' receivers are unless it's to try and point to Mayfield as a poor QB. Beckham (for six games), Landry, Higgins, and Hodge are not deep threats or downfield weapons. Peoples-Jones had some moments but again, was a rookie and those tosses were few and far between.

Stefanski's offense is always going to be run-dominant and with the best running back in the NFL, I want to say duh? But I do hope (and expect) Baker to elevate his game in 2021 in terms of efficiency, accuracy, and "clutch" moments. He's not going to put up Drew Brees' video games numbers, and in fact I would be surprised if he finishes over the 4,000 yard threshold. But a better TD:INT ratio (which we saw in the second half of 2020) and more of those plays that keeps a drive going or an offense moving the chains is where I think the best opportunity for growth is this upcoming season.

 

Must be a PC security thing but these Google Sheets of yours never load correctly for me, @Lyman...

 

That is odd. I've now used Goggle Sheets for, at least, three major elements of the L4SN GMO over the past two years and never heard about this.

 

Like I said... it's a me issue, not a you or L4SN issue.

I just wish I wasn't missing out on the content!

 

Give me a second . . .

 

This is great for team stats, but it doesn't really isolate either of the QBs career play. For 1, Flacco was the 2018 starter up until week 11 for Baltimore. Mayfield also didn't start all 16 games that year.

2019 and 2020 both, I think, should cover Mayfield entirely, but for Jackson he sat out in the 4th quarter of 5 different Ravens games in 2019 and sat out all of week 17 (a total of 9 quarters missed but about 8 full quarters if you subtract the games he played a drive or two in the 4th). Jackson missed similar time in 2020 also.

 

Go back and read my post on page 21 when I originally posted this.

 

Just did. Still, those can't be, for example, Lamar's career stats if he missed about 2 full games worth of time in each of the last two years right?

Although, these numbers do pretty much backup my original statement:

"meanwhile Jackson has a higher CAREER completion percentage, higher career yards per attempt average, higher career TD %, LOWER career INT %, higher career QBR, and high career PASSER rating than Mayfield........all with far less offensive weapons."

So maybe we should just use this and leave it at that

 

Or we can call them like they are in reality, a Running QB, vs. a traditional QB. Lamar has not done anything conventional as a QB. If/when he is no longer a running threat, do you still feel he will be a viable option as your starting QB? We are seeing declining numbers from him, my hypotheses is that each year, as teams gain more knowledge to stopping his running ability, those numbers continue to drop.

Again, 3 years is really hard to make a career statement on.. Even if you are concealing it as career to date.

One is ascending, the other descending as purely a QB, but if this makes you sleep good at night, I'll concede. Lamar has had a better career as a QB... AND I will add that I am over the moon ecstatic that our less decorated QB is in fact our QB and not the other way around.

As our defense gets better, I expect our QBs #s to also get better as he won't be asked to do as much as he did in our playoff run last year. Playing from a lead also leads to less mistakes, as witnessed in the second half of last year.

Give me long term improvement over short term numbers every time. 3 years into a 10+ year career is a moot argument.

 

Like... NFL Playoffs?

 

Not in my opinion, Skippy.

Let me remind you of the title of this thread: "Looking forward to the 2021 AFC North" The AFCN is made up of four teams - not four QB's. While Lamar's CAREER numbers may be better than Baker's and Ben's, the team's trends depicted in what I posted doesn't bear this out. You keep touting Completion %, Yards per attempt and QB rating yet in 2020 Lamar didn't lead the AFCN in any of these three categories.

The NFL is a "what have done lately" league.

 

Let me ask you a question, Irish. How do you know it's not a fluke year? Baker has had one good year, Lamar has had one down year (which I'm guessing you wouldn't call bad since his numbers are fairly similar to Baker's for 2020). How is one year enough to determine one is ascending and one is descending but 3 years of play is too soon to say who's been a better passer?

 

I actually haven't argued 2020 as a stand alone year, nor team trends. I simply made a point about Faulk.......I'm sorry, SAS constantly calling Lamar a RB when, to date, Lamar had better career numbers in every passing statistic that doesn't go by volume. I also didn't bring up Ben because, imo, as of now he's still the best overall passer in the division. As a passer, Ben had the best season in the division last year. He doesn't have the best pass catchers (that's Cleveland), he doesn't have the best o-line (also Cleveland), and he didn't even have a good RB corp to take pressure off (best is yet again Cleveland). In fact, his o-line and RBs were terrible. Still played very good football.

I just realized I haven't given any real opinion on any of these QBs. I don't think many here would want to here my opinions on the QBs, but if anyone does let me know and I'll share.

EDIT: For the sake of peace, I probably shouldn't share

 

Irish, I didn't mean to skip this part. I'll say now, I haven't looked this up, but the best example of how Lamar would do as a pure passer is, imo, to look at the games he's run the least, meaning he wasn't depending on his legs

Games under 10 rush attempts.
1. 85%, 324 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 158.3 rating, W ***
2. 51%, 267 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 70.6 rating, L
3. 74%, 247 yards, 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 96.1 rating, L
4. 88%, 223 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 158.3 rating, W ***
5. 74%, 169 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 139.4 rating, W ***
6. 65%, 212 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 134.3 rating, W ***

7. 80%, 275 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 152.1 rating, W ***
8. 54%, 97 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 73.1 rating, L
9. 67%, 193 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 107.8 rating, W
10. 51%, 180 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 71.9 rating, W
11. 59%, 186 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 92.5 rating, W
12. 65%, 163 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 115.6 rating, W (This is the Browns game where he missed all but the last 2 minutes of the 4th, but came in to throw a TD then ice the game with all pass attempts on the next drive).

2 of the losses are against the Chiefs. Lamar has sucked against them and Pittsburgh. But in 12 games, that's 65%, 211 yards per game, 31 TDs (2.6 per game), 4 INTs (.34 per game), and a 9-3 record in games where he ran the least. That's also considering, as most would agree, his pass catchers are bottom 10, likely bottom 5, in the league.

*** = He was benched in the 4th due to blowout and wasn't able to pile on stats\

Disclaimer - I used under 10 attempts because it'll put him in line with Josh Allen in terms of rush attempts, and apparently nobody has ever called him a RB, even when his passing stats where worse than Jackson

 

I don't which is why I keep saying...multiple times....

THIS IS SILLY TO DEBATE CAREERS AFTER 3 SEASONS. Or anything of relevance really..

You are the one that keeps touting "career", so I gave my opinion that in no circumstance would I exchange Baker for Lamar. That's just one man's opinion.