No offense intended here, but i do have to factor into this statement the genetic trait among Browns fans for delusional optimism. That said, im at the lowest point in over 35years of fandom, so i do appreciate you throwing out a life ring in the storm.
I have a question concerning the Packers pick. Obvs cos its relevant to me as a Bears fan, but also because of the group mock draft we did last week @Tim and everyone else who took part. I never got to ask this at the time cos things moved too fast; Not to brag but I took Stokes in the bottom half of the 3rd round in that draft and it seemed amazing value at the time. I didnt really understand why so many people were so down on him and now the Packers drop a 1st rounder. So what is up with Stokes/this pick? Did people just overlook this one in the mock draft, or my preferred explanation, did the Packers just seriously over reach and make a bad pick? Kinda has to be one or the other.
Stokes had 1st round potential but his talent suggest he was a mid to late 2nd. I don’t like using the term reach if he is a guy you absolutely wanted and he may not have been there when you selected next. However, why not trade down?
2021 NFL Draft Order Round 1 1) Jacksonville Jaguars – Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson 2) New York Jets – Zach Wilson, QB, BYU 3) San Francisco 49ers (from HOU through MIA) – Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State 4) Atlanta Falcons – Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida 5) Cincinnati Bengals – Ja’Marr Chase, WR, LSU 6) Miami Dolphins (from PHI) – Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama 7) Detroit Lions – Penei Sewell, OT, Oregon 8) Carolina Panthers – Jaycee Horn, CB, South Carolina 9) Denver Broncos – Patrick Surtain II, CB, Alabama 10) Philadelphia Eagles (from DAL) – DeVonta Smith, WR, Alabama 11) Chicago Bears (from NYG) – Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State 12) Dallas Cowboys (from PHI through SF, MIA) – Micah Parsons, LB, Penn State 13) Los Angeles Chargers – Rashawn Slater, OT, Northwestern 14) New York Jets (from MIN) – Alijah Vera-Tucker, OL, USC 15) New England Patriots – Mac Jones, QB, Alabama 16) Arizona Cardinals – Zaven Collins, LB, Tulsa 17) Las Vegas Raiders – Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama 18) Miami Dolphins – Jaelan Phillips, DE, Miami 19) Washington Football Team – Jamin Davis, LB, Kentucky 20) New York Giants (from CHI) – Kadarius Toney, WR, Florida 21) Indianapolis Colts – Kwity Paye, DE, Michigan 22) Tennessee Titans – Caleb Farley, CB, Virginia Tech 23) Minnesota Vikings (from NYJ through SEA) – Christian Darrisaw, OT, Virginia Tech 24) Pittsburgh Steelers – Najee Harris, RB, Alabama 25) Jacksonville Jaguars (from LAR) – Travis Etienne, RB, Clemson 26) Cleveland Browns – Greg Newsome II, CB, Northwestern 27) Baltimore Ravens – Rashod Bateman, WR, Minnesota 28) New Orleans Saints – Payton Turner, DE, Houston 29) Green Bay Packers – Eric Stokes, CB, Georgia 30) Buffalo Bills – Gregory Rousseau, DE, Miami 31) Baltimore Ravens (from KC) – Jayson Oweh, DE, Penn State 32) Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Joe Tryon, LB, Washington
Round 2 33) Jacksonville Jaguars 34) New York Jets 35) Atlanta Falcons 36) Miami Dolphins (from HOU) 37) Philadelphia Eagles 38) Cincinnati Bengals 39) Carolina Panthers 40) Denver Broncos 41) Detroit Lions 42) New York Giants 43) San Francisco 49ers 44) Dallas Cowboys 45) Jacksonville Jaguars (from MIN) 46) New England Patriots 47) Los Angeles Chargers 48) Las Vegas Raiders 49) Arizona Cardinals 50) Miami Dolphins 51) Washington Football Team 52) Chicago Bears 53) Tennessee Titans 54) Indianapolis Colts 55) Pittsburgh Steelers 56) Seattle Seahawks 57) Los Angeles Rams 58) Kansas City Chiefs (from BAL) 59) Cleveland Browns 60) New Orleans Saints 61) Buffalo Bills 62) Green Bay Packers 63) Kansas City Chiefs 64) Tampa Bay Buccaneers
The obvious answer is, none of us are professional scouts. That being said, many of us spend more time "scouting" players for the mocks we participate in than the talking heads/pundits who put together these lists that are read online. If someone, anyone, doesn't jump on a guys bandwagon, it's very easy to miss what a professional scout will see. Let's face it, everyone here only has so much time to scour the internet for game film, of which nowadays tends to be just highlights. I think we are all guilty of really studying the guys that are ranked higher towards the top of the guys who spend less time than us watching tape that make the lists.. I would defer to @Tim who spends more time than all of the national pundits combined actually grading all aspects of a prospects talent. He doesn't just look at highlight reels to see if the guy can cover or tackle, he looks at all of the aspects needed to adjust to the pro level... Here is what HE found: So according to @Tim's notes you have: First tier: Patrick Surtain Caleb Farley Jaycee Horn Greg Newsome Second tier: Tyson Campbell Aaron Robinson Kelvin Joseph Eric Stokes Asante Samuel Jr. Within each tier, you will have subtle differences in opinion as to who is ranked ahead of one another, Stokes is clearly in that second tier according to Tim. With the first 4 guys off the board, I would defer to Tim's expertise and say Eric Stokes could have gone anywhere from where the Packers took him, to mid-second round probably. With 5 QBs going early, a couple of the first tier guys most likely got drafted lower than they would have in other draft years.
This is a super interesting thread! I was wondering when the draft started and for the first time in my life I am actually reading about it while it's happening and not 2 months later. <pats herself on the shoulder> I'm like Sargent Schultz
Thank you for the kind words, Irish. I actually drafted him for your Bears in the second round of the GMO (pick 2(20)) and considered it solid value then. With the official mock, he could have been a selection for one of the teams I operated starting in the second round again, but other needs and some questions with Stokes moved him down to a similar area to where you drafted him. Like Irish stated, he's what I consider a tier two prospect at his position for this draft and some of that comes from what I see as potential issues for him transitioning to the next level. He may be too easily shoved aside by larger receivers, which limits him as a pure perimeter corner. One of his biggest assets is burner speed, but if he's confined to the slot then recovery speed can be more of a luxury on a lot of downs. There was always a possibility that a team would fall in love with his production and take him higher than what a lot of us were thinking, which is why a handful of us had him as a riser in Joe and Truth's value challenge (based on the Official Mock and where you selected him). He can look like frickin' Batman in his highlight reels, swooping in break it up or to steal a pick. The only thing missing is the damn cape. But I don't think I want to trust him lining up across from the Michael Thomas and A.J. Browns of the world. I don't think Allen Robinson will be too concerned with dealing with him. He carries enough weight but doesn't play using a ton of leverage. He's got enough roll in his ankles to play the slot but doesn't have off the chart slicing ability. He has more than enough make up speed but larger defenders may rag doll him for jump balls. He's more of a lottery ticket at the back of the first then what I'm completely comfortable with, but he has the right body type/athleticism to immediately get on the field in obvious passing situations.
This is about as good of a draft situation as what the Falcons and Bengals could have hoped for. They stick and pick at the top, then get to hit it again early in the second after not having to burn that high first on a passer. Instead, they get the two highest rated offensive weapons on the board and now have a pretty damn nice list of potential prospects to decide from to start day two.
Add Detroit to that list. Didn't do so bad themselves. And apparently aren't real worried about their QB situation.
Getting Sewell was definitely a solid move. We could probably throw the Panthers on there to if we're going to keep creeping down into the top 10. My hope is that Matt sticks to his rhule of drafting nothing but defense.
My take on Stokes: After first watching him I had him graded as probably late 2nd. I really like him. I think he's clearly the better prospect than his running mate from Georgia, Tyson Campbell. I thought he was pretty sticky, but not polished in man coverage mirroring downfield. He can keep up with most guys. I think the true route technicians who do a good job creating space with body fakes and position savvy arm-bars will be the guys to give him trouble. My favorite spot for him is lined up in press-man outside. With some NFL coaching (hate to break it to you) I think he could be very good. He's willing for a CB in run support. Good, not great in that regard. After a second watch, and maybe more importantly, after he ran a 4.32 or whatever at his pro-day he kind of got bumped up to early-mid 2nd round grade for me. CB just wasn't a big need for the teams I was handling in the GMO, at least for man cover guys. But believe me, picking him as a riser from where you took him in our draft value challenge was one of the easiest picks of the whole thing for me. Probably one of the first 3 guys I had written in pen. You had a huge value there. In the real world I expected him to come off the board right where I graded him, between 33-45 somewhere. But apparently the Pack really like him. After how they lost that conference championship game I am not in the least bit surprised that CB is where they looked first. I'm ranking that Kevin King play before half in the slot right behind passing on the goal line with Marshawn Lynch watching in the Superbowl for all time dumb plays in the playoffs. The second that happened I was yelling that if I were running the team I'd release that dude at halftime.
Packers aren't helping themselves with Rodgers with that pick though. 49ers GM John Lynch admitted yesterday that their plans changed just before the draft when they heard Rodgers wanted out. They abandoned their QB selection at 3 and decided to try for Rodgers and that when they were told no they went back to their origin plan and went with Lance.
They're bound to flirt with OL or TE at some point this draft. Sorry Tim! I've enjoyed the conviction too.
I think before they tucked themselves into bed the night before the draft that a lot of prayers were made in hopes that Pitts somehow magically fell down the board into their laps. lol
Single most genuinely excited pick from a draft room shot I've ever seen and not just the normal happy self congratulations. They acted like they won the Super Bowl. They looked more excited than any player being selected I've seen.
